Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ers81:
Since people seem to be big on posting charts these days, here's one to consider.

First-round rookie quarterbacks | 2021 preseason

Player PFF grade Accurate pass % Big-time throw %
Trevor Lawrence 78.3 (10th) 58.5% (22nd) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Zach Wilson 85.7 (N/A) 64.7% (N/A) 9.1% (N/A)
Trey Lance 56.7 (46th) 47.4% (48th) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Justin Fields 67.6 (20th) 38.3% (59th) 5.7% (t-13th)
Mac Jones 92.2 (2nd) 70.8% (3rd) 6.9% (7th)

Now I'm not a huge fan of meta data since I believe by tailoring the input to very narrow and specific criteria you can get it to show just about anything you want. I imagine Lance's ceiling is a lot higher than this would indicate and it is only based on a limited sample size but it is notable that he is near the bottom of all three of these categories among the rookies drafted this year. He may well end up being better than all of them but right now it would seem to indicate that he still has a ways to go.

Personally I don't care all that much about preseason data. Good bad whatever

Originally posted by Rathof44:
I would agree, offenses run in college today lend itself to QB starting sooner rather than in the NFL. Rodgers was also 15 years ago......yikes...time flies. Here are Murray and Hurts rooke stats....I think Lance could land somewhere in between. I would be fine that.

Murray: 64%, 3700yds, 20tds/12int. 500yds rush.
Hurts (started 4 games, so it was projected over 16): 53% 4000yds, 24yds/16int, 1000yds rush.
Both were 22 years old.

Yeah I think that's a fair comp for a rookie like Lance. Shanny isn't gonna throw the playbook at Lance and will put in a position to be successful early in his career. If Lamar Jackson can have success early (imo a worse passer than Lance coming into the league) then why can't Lance?

it's funny a lot of the people in here saying he shouldn't play this yr are some of the same people that wanted Jones & are crowning him something because he is starting. I mean I thought rookies shouldn't play yr1? Weird stuff in here.

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Do you know you can't depend on recovering fumbles? It's outrageous to put up 26 ints and put the ball on the ground an additional 17 times. You can make any excuse you want about WRs dropping balls or whatever (he's had his share of dropped picks) but his turnovers are absolutely a major issue. Semantics if you want to say well he's just really probe to turnovers or he's a turnover machine. However you want to spell it out it's a major problem.

So! If your concern with Trey is he's young & will turn the ball over....our only other QB already does that!

my concern with trey is that it will stunt his long term potential and our offense will be limited with a lack of drop back passes. The thing that worries me most is what we already saw in preseason that his throwing mechanics in the pocket regress as the game goes on and worse the mechanics get cemented in before he has the chance to improve them in practice

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

What Qb ranking?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
I would agree, offenses run in college today lend itself to QB starting sooner rather than in the NFL. Rodgers was also 15 years ago......yikes...time flies. Here are Murray and Hurts rooke stats....I think Lance could land somewhere in between. I would be fine that.

Murray: 64%, 3700yds, 20tds/12int. 500yds rush.
Hurts (started 4 games, so it was projected over 16): 53% 4000yds, 24yds/16int, 1000yds rush.
Both were 22 years old.

Yeah I think that's a fair comp for a rookie like Lance. Shanny isn't gonna throw the playbook at Lance and will put in a position to be successful early in his career. If Lamar Jackson can have success early (imo a worse passer than Lance coming into the league) then why can't Lance?

it's funny a lot of the people in here saying he shouldn't play this yr are some of the same people that wanted Jones & are crowning him something because he is starting. I mean I thought rookies shouldn't play yr1? Weird stuff in here.

what are you talking about.

Mac threw more than 2x the amount of passes in college in the SEC compared to Lance who averaged less than 15 throws a game

youre thinking all rookie qbs are the same which is just ridiculous you have a lot of posts but are you new to the NFL and the entire draft process/evaluation?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
Since people seem to be big on posting charts these days, here's one to consider.

First-round rookie quarterbacks | 2021 preseason

Player PFF grade Accurate pass % Big-time throw %
Trevor Lawrence 78.3 (10th) 58.5% (22nd) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Zach Wilson 85.7 (N/A) 64.7% (N/A) 9.1% (N/A)
Trey Lance 56.7 (46th) 47.4% (48th) 4.5% (t-22nd)
Justin Fields 67.6 (20th) 38.3% (59th) 5.7% (t-13th)
Mac Jones 92.2 (2nd) 70.8% (3rd) 6.9% (7th)

Now I'm not a huge fan of meta data since I believe by tailoring the input to very narrow and specific criteria you can get it to show just about anything you want. I imagine Lance's ceiling is a lot higher than this would indicate and it is only based on a limited sample size but it is notable that he is near the bottom of all three of these categories among the rookies drafted this year. He may well end up being better than all of them but right now it would seem to indicate that he still has a ways to go.

Personally I don't care all that much about preseason data. Good bad whatever

I don't believe that for a minute, If Lance had been at the top of all these lists instead of at the bottom you would have been using that to support your arguments as to why he should start over Jimmy. You know that's true so to pretend otherwise is a bit disingenuous, I will agree that a lot of what happens in pre-season is pretty meaningless in terms of how a player may actually evolve but it is where roster spots can be won or lost and is at least somewhat indicative of a player's ability to handle the NFL game. One of the raps on Lance coming out of college was that he had big play ability but also had some accuracy issues. His three TD passes in pre-season and 46% completion rate would seem to suggest that wasn't an entirely inaccurate assessment. I like what I've seen from Lance so far and have no issues with the team drafting him. Like any reasonable fan I am rooting for him to succeed but that doesn't mean, as it appears to do so with others in this forum, that I have to root for Jimmy to fail.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
FWIW, Rodgers didn't start for the Packers til he was 25. Granted, they had Favre (BTW, who had 37 INTS his first two seasons and he worked out OK) and Packers didn't give up any draft capital to get Rodgers. Lance will be starting sooner than later, and he'll have growing pains to be expected (see Favre 37 INTS and Manning 43 INTs in their first two seasons). He'll also be the playmaker the 49ers haven't had at QB.

Rogers is the exception not the norm when it comes to not playing a QB that long and getting those results imo

Phillip Rivers didn't start til year 2
Steve Young didn't become a full time starter until his 7th season
Kirk Cousins didn't start more than 5 games until his 4th year

While I agree, it's the exception, it's also true that very few teams draft qb's high that have a quality starter on the team. Who's going to start for the Jags or Jets other than Lawrence or Wilson?

Teams drafting high for QB's generally have a qb issue. Ours has a health issue having been out 2/3 years.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

What Qb ranking?

It was posted ad nauseum last year, I know yiu saw those ranking because you were involved in the discussions.

Not meaning this in a disparaging way, more, feel like we're treading back on topics us same people have already discussed many times.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Just came across the latest article on young Trey, and now I'm starting to understand why a few folks in here are so paranoid about comparing him to a past 9er QB. Oh this is hilarious.

It also makes sense why that one poster many pages back was throwing around terms like "SJW" and woke. 😆

What article?

Kaepernick comparisons are laughable.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
I would agree, offenses run in college today lend itself to QB starting sooner rather than in the NFL. Rodgers was also 15 years ago......yikes...time flies. Here are Murray and Hurts rooke stats....I think Lance could land somewhere in between. I would be fine that.

Murray: 64%, 3700yds, 20tds/12int. 500yds rush.
Hurts (started 4 games, so it was projected over 16): 53% 4000yds, 24yds/16int, 1000yds rush.
Both were 22 years old.

Yeah I think that's a fair comp for a rookie like Lance. Shanny isn't gonna throw the playbook at Lance and will put in a position to be successful early in his career. If Lamar Jackson can have success early (imo a worse passer than Lance coming into the league) then why can't Lance?

it's funny a lot of the people in here saying he shouldn't play this yr are some of the same people that wanted Jones & are crowning him something because he is starting. I mean I thought rookies shouldn't play yr1? Weird stuff in here.

We're not saying all rookies shouldn't start year one, we're saying our rookie, in our situation shouldn't start year 1.

There's no reason the Jags shouldn't start Lawrence.

There are several reasons to not start Lance. That's not a knock at all.
I get where you want the rookie to be sold up because you want tobsee an exciting qb and you think that will win more games.

But, Lance isn't some pro ready qb. He's got a ton of potential. Could he get it earlier if he plays more? Sure. Will it happen as fast as you think so? I doubt it. Even if he started every game this year it's going to take him til year 2, IMO to be NFL ready.

That means we throw away this season just to prepare for 2022. Our window is open now. Contrary to what you believe, we can win a SB with Jimmy G. So, I'm not willing to punt away this year for the excitement of next year.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Yeah man what's wrong with people not posting Jimmy's 2019 rankings in Trey Lances 2021 thread, like seriously WTF

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Yeah man what's wrong with people not posting Jimmy's 2019 rankings in Trey Lances 2021 thread, like seriously WTF

Let's merge the two QB threads and just have "The 49ers QB thread". It will be epically chaotic.

Sue me but I see shades of Kaep in the area of his velocity. His ability to get chunk yards off of seemingly effortless 20 yard passes where guys like Alex and Jimmy are average. He somewhat seems to struggle with the short to intermediate throws like Kaep but both at the same time can put a ball in there that many other QBs can't. Trey and Kaep could/could've benefitted from taking the heat off at times. That doesn't mean I think Trey will have the same results as Kaep as I think he has a much better grasp of pocket awareness, sports IQ, and potential but I do think as far as ball velocity they are similar.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Yeah man what's wrong with people not posting Jimmy's 2019 rankings in Trey Lances 2021 thread, like seriously WTF

Let's merge the two QB threads and just have "The 49ers QB thread". It will be epically chaotic.

Why are we not starting Super Bowl LIII champion Nate Sudfeld?

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Jimmy did finish number 8 and number 12 in 2019 in quarterback rankings. Just saying. People seem to apply quarterback rankings around here to everyone but Jimmy. But I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Yeah man what's wrong with people not posting Jimmy's 2019 rankings in Trey Lances 2021 thread, like seriously WTF

Let's merge the two QB threads and just have "The 49ers QB thread". It will be epically chaotic.

Why are we not starting Super Bowl LIII champion Nate Sudfeld?

Because Jimmy has two rings.