Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Man Jimmy didn't fumble much in 2020. I wonder why

Lol

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do and never said fumbling isn't something we should avoid. I'm pointing out it's incredibly misleading to just throw a stat like that out with no other context. Makes it seem like he's fumbling every other time he gets hit.

That's why I posted other qb's #'s. Go look them up for yourself.

The top 20 guys with the most career fumbles are all quarterbacks. 5 of which are HOF and a number of future HOF.

Just throwing a stat like that and then talking about a RB benched for fumbles is disingenuous.

I edited but you replied before you saw it.

The other QB #s you posted I didnt understand and still dont. Jimmy fumbles more than all of them (aside from being fractions of a percent better than Watson, who fumbles at a much lower rate when factoring in attempts).

If you think me talking about RBs being benched for fumbles is disingenuous, then you were simply way too quick to come to Jimmy's defense because you COMPLETELY misunderstood the point of why I even brought it up. I brought it up because a couple posters essentially believe that as long as the 49ers recovered the ball, the fumbles should be ignored. Fumble recoveries (as I am sure you know) are largely due to luck. Just because we recovered a majority of them, doesnt mean the fumbling isnt a problem....which, again, is why I mentioned RBs being benched for fumbling regardless of who recovered.

My point is that talking about RB's getting benched for fumbling is similar to a qb getting credited for fumbles is disingenuous.

It's not a qualitative stat. It'd be like someone talking about Trey's comp % in pre-season without mentioning all the drops. It's misleading and disingenuous.

It's also why I was responding to French. He's said its crazy that people would brush off 17 fumbles in 30 games(really 32). Watson has 30 in 54 and I've never heard anyone talk about Watson having a fumbling problem.

It's because everyone understands that's a stat that doesn't mean much considering that many fumbles credited are not actually fumbles.

Kurt Warner has 104 fumbles in 124 career games. He's in the HOF and I've never heard of Warner having a fumbling problem.

Must've been so crazy how during all those HOF seasons no one was worried about his fumbles.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

If you add that to the interception %, Jimmy turns the ball over at the 3rd highest rate behind only Winston and Daniel Jones:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+%2B+int%25+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

ok but it's a dataset that's leaving out some recent QBs because of a specific set of qualifiers. like not including Mahomes.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Man Jimmy didn't fumble much in 2020. I wonder why

again the post wasn't to show JGs already posted fumble stats. it was to post the last 32 games of other QBs to compare to JG's last 30 game total.

again not the hard to understand.

I understand the content of your links, dude. I am not an idiot.

The point of this entire discussion was Jimmy turns the ball over too much. Yes, even in comparison to the other QBs. With Jimmy's interceptions combined with fumbling at a high rate, that is a problem. Are you saying it isnt?

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

Again, it doesn't necessarily mean much when lost center quarterback exchanges are the bulk of it. I specifically remember several on run plays because our center was trying to get his scoop block in time and took off as he snapped it - causing the botched snap.

Might have something to do with the fact that Jimmy has had 5 centers playing in front of him during that time. Maybe....just maybe.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Man Jimmy didn't fumble much in 2020. I wonder why

again the post wasn't to show JGs already posted fumble stats. it was to post the last 32 games of other QBs to compare to JG's last 30 game total.

again not the hard to understand.

I understand the content of your links, dude. I am not an idiot.

The point of this entire discussion was Jimmy turns the ball over too much. Yes, even in comparison to the other QBs. With Jimmy's interceptions combined with fumbling at a high rate, that is a problem. Are you saying it isnt?

it was posted because some made it sound like Jimmy's almost fumble numbers were way above average

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

ok but it's a dataset that's leaving out some recent QBs because of a specific set of qualifiers.

The only qualifier is that they had as many attempts as Jimmy which doesn't eliminate that many since Jimmy only has around 900 passing attempts. I chose that number because it wasn't arbitrary and without setting a minimum there is too much noise.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

ok but it's a dataset that's leaving out some recent QBs because of a specific set of qualifiers.

The only qualifier is that they had as many attempts as Jimmy which doesn't eliminate that many since Jimmy only has around 900 passing attempts. I chose that number because it wasn't arbitrary and without setting a minimum there is too much noise.

over the same amount games is better dataset because youre disqualifying a lot of QBs.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do and never said fumbling isn't something we should avoid. I'm pointing out it's incredibly misleading to just throw a stat like that out with no other context. Makes it seem like he's fumbling every other time he gets hit.

That's why I posted other qb's #'s. Go look them up for yourself.

The top 20 guys with the most career fumbles are all quarterbacks. 5 of which are HOF and a number of future HOF.

Just throwing a stat like that and then talking about a RB benched for fumbles is disingenuous.

I edited but you replied before you saw it.

The other QB #s you posted I didnt understand and still dont. Jimmy fumbles more than all of them (aside from being fractions of a percent better than Watson, who fumbles at a much lower rate when factoring in attempts).

If you think me talking about RBs being benched for fumbles is disingenuous, then you were simply way too quick to come to Jimmy's defense because you COMPLETELY misunderstood the point of why I even brought it up. I brought it up because a couple posters essentially believe that as long as the 49ers recovered the ball, the fumbles should be ignored. Fumble recoveries (as I am sure you know) are largely due to luck. Just because we recovered a majority of them, doesnt mean the fumbling isnt a problem....which, again, is why I mentioned RBs being benched for fumbling regardless of who recovered.

My point is that talking about RB's getting benched for fumbling is similar to a qb getting credited for fumbles is disingenuous.

It's not a qualitative stat. It'd be like someone talking about Trey's comp % in pre-season without mentioning all the drops. It's misleading and disingenuous.

It's also why I was responding to French. He's said its crazy that people would brush off 17 fumbles in 30 games(really 32). Watson has 30 in 54 and I've never heard anyone talk about Watson having a fumbling problem.

It's because everyone understands that's a stat that doesn't mean much considering that many fumbles credited are not actually fumbles.

Kurt Warner has 104 fumbles in 124 career games. He's in the HOF and I've never heard of Warner having a fumbling problem.

Must've been so crazy how during all those HOF seasons no one was worried about his fumbles.

Still missing the point with the first bolded.

You must not have paid attention with the second bolded. Warner was criticized his entire career about being loose with the ball and fumbling too much.

Again, you are totally missing the point in this discussion. No one is being disingenious. You are just not happy with the content of what is being discussed. Jimmy turns the ball over too much (interceptions and fumbling the ball). Not sure how any unbiased person would go to such lengths to disagree with that. He does. We just have to hope our defense is good enough to combat that.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
My point is that talking about RB's getting benched for fumbling is similar to a qb getting credited for fumbles is disingenuous.

It's not a qualitative stat. It'd be like someone talking about Trey's comp % in pre-season without mentioning all the drops. It's misleading and disingenuous.

It's also why I was responding to French. He's said its crazy that people would brush off 17 fumbles in 30 games(really 32). Watson has 30 in 54 and I've never heard anyone talk about Watson having a fumbling problem.

It's because everyone understands that's a stat that doesn't mean much considering that many fumbles credited are not actually fumbles.

Kurt Warner has 104 fumbles in 124 career games. He's in the HOF and I've never heard of Warner having a fumbling problem.

Must've been so crazy how during all those HOF seasons no one was worried about his fumbles.

Well regarding Watson, I expect a dynamic runner to fumble more but if I were a Texans fan that would concern me as well. All of this traces back to my concern with Jimmy's propensity to turn the ball over. Whataboutism doesn't really lessen my concern as a niners fan

this board is too getting too pissy , we need a game already so everyone will just relax and enjoy our team

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Man Jimmy didn't fumble much in 2020. I wonder why

again the post wasn't to show JGs already posted fumble stats. it was to post the last 32 games of other QBs to compare to JG's last 30 game total.

again not the hard to understand.

I understand the content of your links, dude. I am not an idiot.

The point of this entire discussion was Jimmy turns the ball over too much. Yes, even in comparison to the other QBs. With Jimmy's interceptions combined with fumbling at a high rate, that is a problem. Are you saying it isnt?

it was posted because some made it sound like Jimmy's almost fumble numbers were way above average

No, but when you combine them the interceptions, they ARE way above average (what the point of this discussion was originally).

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do and never said fumbling isn't something we should avoid. I'm pointing out it's incredibly misleading to just throw a stat like that out with no other context. Makes it seem like he's fumbling every other time he gets hit.

That's why I posted other qb's #'s. Go look them up for yourself.

The top 20 guys with the most career fumbles are all quarterbacks. 5 of which are HOF and a number of future HOF.

Just throwing a stat like that and then talking about a RB benched for fumbles is disingenuous.

I edited but you replied before you saw it.

The other QB #s you posted I didnt understand and still dont. Jimmy fumbles more than all of them (aside from being fractions of a percent better than Watson, who fumbles at a much lower rate when factoring in attempts).

If you think me talking about RBs being benched for fumbles is disingenuous, then you were simply way too quick to come to Jimmy's defense because you COMPLETELY misunderstood the point of why I even brought it up. I brought it up because a couple posters essentially believe that as long as the 49ers recovered the ball, the fumbles should be ignored. Fumble recoveries (as I am sure you know) are largely due to luck. Just because we recovered a majority of them, doesnt mean the fumbling isnt a problem....which, again, is why I mentioned RBs being benched for fumbling regardless of who recovered.

My point is that talking about RB's getting benched for fumbling is similar to a qb getting credited for fumbles is disingenuous.

It's not a qualitative stat. It'd be like someone talking about Trey's comp % in pre-season without mentioning all the drops. It's misleading and disingenuous.

It's also why I was responding to French. He's said its crazy that people would brush off 17 fumbles in 30 games(really 32). Watson has 30 in 54 and I've never heard anyone talk about Watson having a fumbling problem.

It's because everyone understands that's a stat that doesn't mean much considering that many fumbles credited are not actually fumbles.

Kurt Warner has 104 fumbles in 124 career games. He's in the HOF and I've never heard of Warner having a fumbling problem.

Must've been so crazy how during all those HOF seasons no one was worried about his fumbles.

Still missing the point with the first bolded.

You must not have paid attention with the second bolded. Warner was criticized his entire career about being loose with the ball and fumbling too much.

Again, you are totally missing the point in this discussion. No one is being disingenious. You are just not happy with the content of what is being discussed. Jimmy turns the ball over too much (interceptions and fumbling the ball). Not sure how any unbiased person would go to such lengths to disagree with that. He does. We just have to hope our defense is good enough to combat that.

*sigh*
Ok, it's quite ironic that you would utilizing this logic and then call me biased.

Your thesis: Jimmy turns the ball over too much.
Evidence:INT's+fumbles

Counter: not nearly as many lost fumbles so it's not as big a problem as it's being made out to be.

Your counter: it's a coin flip on fumbles lost, so yes, still a problem.

My issue: using fumbles as a qualitative state to correlate turnovers from the QB position is misleading because fumbles credited to the QB are not actually all fumbles by the QB.

Your response: that line of logic is biased.

RE: Warner, according to the fumbles per game, he had a fulble in nearly 84% of his games. If it's as big a problem as y'all are making it, he wouldn't have been HOF.

John Elway had 137 fumbles in 234 career games or almost 59% of games.

Jimmy is 53%. Better than 2 guys in the HOF with 3 trophies.

So, again, trying to argue about fumbles as a stat isn't worth anything. That's people who have an issue with Jimmy grasping at something to make him look bad. Thr fact that you are defending this stat to much shows how biased you are.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by ElDannMann:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by ElDannMann:

Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:
This thread is so ridiculous. I seriously just come here for the laughs now. Everyone is so hard line JG or hard line TL, when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Cmon guys....

neuro plasticity?
racial comparisons?

It's pretty ridiculous. It's not that black and white. no pun intended. or was it?

I just can't wait for the season to start so we are all rooting for the team instead of for/against certain players.

That's cute that you think the fighting over QBs will stop once the season starts.

It never stops; it's a Webzone staple.

However, in recent years the arguments have gotten ludicrous, like even bringing up neuroplasticity for a 29-year-old man versus the neuroplasticity of a 21-year-old man, whose differences in ability of learning is minimal. Like, lol wut

It never stops and is a Webzone staple because we havent had a franchise QB since Steve Young retired. People try to make it sound like we have some toxic fanbase because we cant agree on a QB. But the reality is, we have had nothing but garbage, QBs who didnt live up to expectations, average QBs, or QBs just good enough to break your heart (or some combination of that), for the last 2+ decades. Some people homer out for the current starter. Some people are always wanting the current starter replaced. And some people are in the middle.

Once we finally get a franchise QB again, there wont be nearly the amount of fighting on this board.

Absolutely. You're 100% correct.

The issue I take is there is no objectivity. People come in here with their bias and their agendad for or against said player. Some people can't say anything good about Jimmy G, others can't see any fault in him. Reality is that he's an average to above average QB with health concerns and a propensity to throw picks at times. But damn can be moved the chains on 3rd down.

The problem is that there's a loud minority of posters who continue to spew their agendas all over the place with zero objectivity, not looking for a discussion or debate, rather all they want to do is complain and moan and tell everyone why their opinion is the correct one. It's annoying.

Did you follow the Alex threads after he left. Years later people were arguing about it posting the same arguments over and over again. The same people who loved that drama are doing the same thing with Jimmy G.
It isn't about the team.

Boy, isn't that the truth. People like to keep telling themselves that the things they post in here are just "their opinions" but the fact is they are all absolutely convinced of the "rightness" of those opinions and I guess won't be happy until everyone else agrees with them. In fact the poster who started this particular line once famously said in relation to Alex Smith long after he had left the team, and I am paraphrasing, "if people would just agree with me there wouldn't be any reason to argue". They'll deny ii of course but I remember it well since that was what led me to putting them on my blocked list. I don't have a shred of doubt that the moment Jimmy leaves the team, under whatever circumstance, the same posters who are ripping him now will follow him to whatever new thread he might have and rip him there, just like they did Alex.

I really don't have any issues with Lance at the moment. I hope he's great. But as I said in another post. rooting for Lance to succeed doesn't mean that people should have to come into the forum and keep coming up with reasons why they want Jimmy to fail.