Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Even though I'm pretty critical of Jimmy I do think overall he is a decent QB. What's frustrating to me is he should be better than he has been. In 2017 I was thinking we had our Romo but then he kind of turned into a Romo + Chad Pennington combo

Agreed... He's not a bad QB by any means, they're are far worst QB's than JG... I think we'd all like to see that 2017 version of JG this year..

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Even though I'm pretty critical of Jimmy I do think overall he is a decent QB. What's frustrating to me is he should be better than he has been. In 2017 I was thinking we had our Romo but then he kind of turned into a Romo + Chad Pennington combo

Give Jimmy time to throw and he won't disappoint

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Give Jimmy time to throw and he won't disappoint

I would love nothing more than Jimmy to make me eat my words and tear it up

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Even though I'm pretty critical of Jimmy I do think overall he is a decent QB. What's frustrating to me is he should be better than he has been. In 2017 I was thinking we had our Romo but then he kind of turned into a Romo + Chad Pennington combo

Agreed... He's not a bad QB by any means, they're are far worst QB's than JG... I think we'd all like to see that 2017 version of JG this year..

His main problem is injuries period. If Jimmy was healthy along with Nick Bosa, I don't believe we would have seen as much criticism, but we'll never know.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Even though I'm pretty critical of Jimmy I do think overall he is a decent QB. What's frustrating to me is he should be better than he has been. In 2017 I was thinking we had our Romo but then he kind of turned into a Romo + Chad Pennington combo

Agreed... He's not a bad QB by any means, they're are far worst QB's than JG... I think we'd all like to see that 2017 version of JG this year..

x2

Jimmy is fine. He is way better than bad. I just personally never like settling for fine. If you dont have an elite franchise QB, you should never stop looking for one.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Give Jimmy time to throw and he won't disappoint

I would love nothing more than Jimmy to make me eat my words and tear it up

I'm confident in jimmy, I'm not confident in OL+Jimmy.

hopefully the moves at OL help this year

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Agreed... He's not a bad QB by any means, they're are far worst QB's than JG... I think we'd all like to see that 2017 version of JG this year..

Yes please but with less interceptions

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Agreed... He's not a bad QB by any means, they're are far worst QB's than JG... I think we'd all like to see that 2017 version of JG this year..

give me the 2019 version

bottom line, when healthy, he wins, a lot

Trey Lance

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Right. There's no denying that. My point, the entire point to all this. Is that this particular stat doesn't tell us anything of substance. Look at great QB's. Some have high fumble numbers, some not as much. Look at bad qb's, same thing.

I'm not denying it that fumbles are bad. I have a hard time with someone using fumbles as definitive evidence for a QB, considering how thr stats are tabulated.

I hate Russel Wilson but if someone tried to use this same stat against him I'd make the same argument.

Dude, no one has been saying that because Jimmy fumbles at ___ rate, it makes him a good or bad QB. Thats why I have continued to say you are completely missing the point here. Yes, some good QBs fumble a lot. Yes, some bad QBs dont fumble a lot. Throwing interceptions is bad. Fumbling is bad. That doesnt mean those are the end all statistic to prove a QB's value one way or the other (like you illustrated with Favre earlier). They are just part of what goes into QB evaluation.

Take a deep breath. You dont always have to come rushing to Jimmy's defense. Sometimes, like in this case, you are arguing against something no one is even really saying.

Ok, maybe I'm just not communicating this well.

I don't care if it's for/against Jimmy. I don't give 2 craps. I'd feel the same way if what's being said was said about anyone.

I'm not arguing that fumbles aren't bad - let's make that 100% clear.

My point is, like what is mentioned above, Jimmy was credited with 2 fumbles in one of his starts for NE, he actually only fumbled once.

Unless someone goes through every single credited fumble and assigns what was the qb, what was the center, we don't know why it was fumbled. Are 10% of the fumbles on the center, is it 50? Is it 90? We don't know. We have no way of knowing.

People wanting to twist what I'm saying to make it seem like I'm comparing JG to HOF. No. They're assuming I'm defending Jimmy. I'm not. I'm attacking the use of the stat.

25 of the top 26 players credited with fumbles in 2019 were QB's. Which, when you consider they handle about 1000 or more snaps a year, sounds about right. If a center has a 99% success rate, that's still 10 fumbles.

We have no idea. What's the average success rate for a center? I don't know. Is there anywhere to find that metric? What was our center's success rate? I don't know.

That's the whole point. We're using a stat we have zero idea if it's a stat that really tells us something or not.

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Not true. He fumbled twice & lost one in his first every start w the pats

Ah. Not in the pfr stats. Where can you find that?

No pics though. Do you find that interesting? Same guy different system.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
*sigh*
Ok, it's quite ironic that you would utilizing this logic and then call me biased.

Your thesis: Jimmy turns the ball over too much.
Evidence:INT's+fumbles

Counter: not nearly as many lost fumbles so it's not as big a problem as it's being made out to be.

Your counter: it's a coin flip on fumbles lost, so yes, still a problem.

My issue: using fumbles as a qualitative state to correlate turnovers from the QB position is misleading because fumbles credited to the QB are not actually all fumbles by the QB.

Your response: that line of logic is biased.

RE: Warner, according to the fumbles per game, he had a fulble in nearly 84% of his games. If it's as big a problem as y'all are making it, he wouldn't have been HOF.

John Elway had 137 fumbles in 234 career games or almost 59% of games.

Jimmy is 53%. Better than 2 guys in the HOF with 3 trophies.

So, again, trying to argue about fumbles as a stat isn't worth anything. That's people who have an issue with Jimmy grasping at something to make him look bad. Thr fact that you are defending this stat to much shows how biased you are.

The reason I am saying the logic is biased is because you are acting as if a majority of Jimmy's fumbles were because of poor center play. Where is the evidence that these fumbles are happening because of poor center play? Where is the evidence that these plays happen more for Jimmy than any other QB? Are other QBs afforded the questioning of whether their fumbles were caused by poor center play too? That's why I say the logic is biased.

You keep mentioning Warner as if fumbling wasnt an issue his whole career. Google it. There are plenty of articles written about his fumbling problems.

And this is not to say a QB cant be a good QB if he fumbles at the rate Jimmy does. But the entire point of this conversation was total turnovers. And Jimmy turns the ball over at a high rate. I am not "trying to make Jimmy look bad." Give me a break.

Where is the evidence it's not the result of poor center play?

THAT IS MY POINT.

I like how you mention Warner when I bring him up and gloss over John Elway.

And yes, you've been crapping in Jimmy for over 12 months.

The onus of proof is on you. Its your job to prove what you are claiming, its not my job to prove what you are claiming is wrong. LOL

And I mention Warner because you have brought him up multiple times to the Elway example once. And Elway retired two and a half decades ago.

Lol
wow dude..
no way to prove it's on the qb/center/rb exchange….
but but but prove its NOT on jimmy…

Do you not see anything wrong with this??

Your the one saying it's on jimmy so prove it!! Lol

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Lol
wow dude..
no way to prove it's on the qb/center/rb exchange….
but but but prove its NOT on jimmy…

Do you not see anything wrong with this??

Your the one saying it's on jimmy so prove it!! Lol

LOL you cant be serious right now. Jonny brought up the center. He was the one who made the excuse that some of the fumbles could have been a result of the center, it wasnt me saying that it wasnt. LOL

And your bolded is comical. "There's no way to prove its on the qb/center/rb exchange" and then 3 sentences later you are asking me to prove it. LMAO

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, maybe I'm just not communicating this well.

I don't care if it's for/against Jimmy. I don't give 2 craps. I'd feel the same way if what's being said was said about anyone.

I'm not arguing that fumbles aren't bad - let's make that 100% clear.

My point is, like what is mentioned above, Jimmy was credited with 2 fumbles in one of his starts for NE, he actually only fumbled once.

Unless someone goes through every single credited fumble and assigns what was the qb, what was the center, we don't know why it was fumbled. Are 10% of the fumbles on the center, is it 50? Is it 90? We don't know. We have no way of knowing.

People wanting to twist what I'm saying to make it seem like I'm comparing JG to HOF. No. They're assuming I'm defending Jimmy. I'm not. I'm attacking the use of the stat.

25 of the top 26 players credited with fumbles in 2019 were QB's. Which, when you consider they handle about 1000 or more snaps a year, sounds about right. If a center has a 99% success rate, that's still 10 fumbles.

We have no idea. What's the average success rate for a center? I don't know. Is there anywhere to find that metric? What was our center's success rate? I don't know.

That's the whole point. We're using a stat we have zero idea if it's a stat that really tells us something or not.

Even in spite of your elaboration, I cant imagine a QB fumbles because of a bad snap nearly as much as you are thinking in your head. If I had to guess, I would say it happens a handful of times every season, for EVERY team. Plus, I have watched every single game of Jimmy's career here, and if bad snaps were happening at a rate that is worth noting, then....well....it would have been noted!

Again, I think for you to dismiss a fumbles stat because the idea that some of the fumbles could be the fault of the center is kind of silly. Because you know damn well if Jimmy doesnt fumble once this season, you arent going to credit that to the fact that we have an All-Pro center now.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
give me the 2019 version

bottom line, when healthy, he wins, a lot

2019 wasn't even Jimmy at his best. The season following a major injury is always a down season for a QB. Especially with an ACL injury. 2021 Jimmy will be the best version.