Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Kyle benches Trey.

If both Jimmy and Trey are struggling, he might still bench Trey to see how Jimmy handles it... if Jimmy still struggles, then Kyle puts in Trey for the remainder of the season.

I think it would be the opposite if both Jimmy and Trey is struggling. Why would he want to see how Jimmy handles it? He isn't the future, Trey is.

if both are struggling the job will g to Jimmy he has a much higher floor than Trey this year

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Kyle benches Trey.

If both Jimmy and Trey are struggling, he might still bench Trey to see how Jimmy handles it... if Jimmy still struggles, then Kyle puts in Trey for the remainder of the season.

I think it would be the opposite if both Jimmy and Trey is struggling. Why would he want to see how Jimmy handles it? He isn't the future, Trey is.

if both are struggling the job will g to Jimmy he has a much higher floor than Trey this year

So you think Jimmy keeps the job because of his floor, even if he's struggling? That makes zero sense to me. History says otherwise. Usually when the vet is struggling, that's when the rookie takes over and never looks back.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Kyle benches Trey.

If both Jimmy and Trey are struggling, he might still bench Trey to see how Jimmy handles it... if Jimmy still struggles, then Kyle puts in Trey for the remainder of the season.

I think it would be the opposite if both Jimmy and Trey is struggling. Why would he want to see how Jimmy handles it? He isn't the future, Trey is.

if both are struggling the job will g to Jimmy he has a much higher floor than Trey this year

So you think Jimmy keeps the job because of his floor, even if he's struggling? That makes zero sense to me. History says otherwise. Usually when the vet is struggling, that's when the rookie takes over and never looks back.

if both are struggling and were still in playoff contention for sure its going to stay with Jimmy. If were out of playoff contention i think the job goes to Trey

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Kyle benches Trey.

If both Jimmy and Trey are struggling, he might still bench Trey to see how Jimmy handles it... if Jimmy still struggles, then Kyle puts in Trey for the remainder of the season.

I think it would be the opposite if both Jimmy and Trey is struggling. Why would he want to see how Jimmy handles it? He isn't the future, Trey is.

if both are struggling the job will g to Jimmy he has a much higher floor than Trey this year

So you think Jimmy keeps the job because of his floor, even if he's struggling? That makes zero sense to me. History says otherwise. Usually when the vet is struggling, that's when the rookie takes over and never looks back.

if both are struggling and were still in playoff contention for sure its going to stay with Jimmy. If were out of playoff contention i think the job goes to Trey

Basically..

But if Jimmy has been struggling or not doing enough to win, and we're one game away from being eliminated.. then I think Kyle goes to Trey to see if he can give that o'l so loveable Spark to an offense.

Edit- if Kyle starts talking about how much he loves hot hands.. we'll have an interesting season.

Planned qb Rotation either within a game or between games is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. No one has ever been successful with it. Ever. Were not going to do that. Good way to ruin two qbs at the same time.

And im not talking about situational substitution.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Planned qb Rotation either within a game or between games is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. No one has ever been successful with it. Ever. Were not going to do that. Good way to ruin two qbs at the same time.

LOL

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Planned qb Rotation either within a game or between games is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. No one has ever been successful with it. Ever. Were not going to do that. Good way to ruin two qbs at the same time.

And im not talking about situational substitution.

Not a big fan of Szu Tzu I see…

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Kyle benches Trey.

If both Jimmy and Trey are struggling, he might still bench Trey to see how Jimmy handles it... if Jimmy still struggles, then Kyle puts in Trey for the remainder of the season.

I think it would be the opposite if both Jimmy and Trey is struggling. Why would he want to see how Jimmy handles it? He isn't the future, Trey is.

if both are struggling the job will g to Jimmy he has a much higher floor than Trey this year

So you think Jimmy keeps the job because of his floor, even if he's struggling? That makes zero sense to me. History says otherwise. Usually when the vet is struggling, that's when the rookie takes over and never looks back.

if both are struggling and were still in playoff contention for sure its going to stay with Jimmy. If were out of playoff contention i think the job goes to Trey

I still disagree. What purpose does continuing with a struggling Jimmy serve? He is not the future. I think the team would want to see if Trey can handle that adversity and take them to the playoffs. If Jimmy struggles this season, he's getting replaced this season, period.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Planned qb Rotation either within a game or between games is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. No one has ever been successful with it. Ever. Were not going to do that. Good way to ruin two qbs at the same time.

And im not talking about situational substitution.

Not a big fan of Szu Tzu I see…

Are you talking about a dog or the ancient chinese philosopher whose martial philosophy has no clear application to modern football.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That was brought up because boast believes that total number of attempts for a 29 year old means the same thing as total number of attempts for a 21 year old. They don't, because a 21 year old brain has fewer bad habits to break, and a better ability to hard wire new good habits.

you brought up the information to say it's impossible for JG to improve.

Regardless of the order, I brought it up to explain why Jimmy isn't likely to improve on certain things even though he has relatively few attempts. Care to explain why Josh Allen made such a dramatic improvement in roughly the same number of attempts as what Jimmy has had? I'll wager a guess: he was much younger and yet to be molded. More of a blank canvass. Josh's QBR has increased over three years. Jimmy's has decreased since 2017. Some argue he's regressed, and maybe he has, because he is a lot more cautious than he once was (but is still throwing INTs at about the same rate). Or maybe he's still the same. He certainly hasn't improved.

But regardless of all that, here's my bottom line, and we can let future history determine if I'm right: if Jimmy gets better, it's going to be the rational, conscious side of his game (e.g., reading defenses), and through improved accuracy and/or mechanics. He will not appreciably improve his field vision, which means he's still going to fail to see wide open guys, and he's still going to fail to see linebackers in his periphery, so he'll still throw those interceptions. If he improves his INT%, it's going to be because he becomes more accurate and a better decision maker, which means we'll see fewer INTs like the INT that we saw in the Chargers' game (or last year's Patriots' game).

That said, if he does improve in the way I described, he will probably ascend into that top third tier of QBs, because he's already up there in between the hashes in that 15 yard window, besides the dumb picks. But he'll never be one of the top 6 or 7 guys.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Planned qb Rotation either within a game or between games is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. No one has ever been successful with it. Ever. Were not going to do that. Good way to ruin two qbs at the same time.

And im not talking about situational substitution.

One of the most complete games we've ever had was with a QB rotation.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Trey Lance is a chipotle fan so therefore he will be great. Chipotle > Qdoba

Maybe that's why his finger bone got chipped.
.
.

Okay I'll go to the corner now.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Fumbling the ball is fumbling the ball. If you have ever played football before, you would understand that fumble recoveries are largely due to luck. Running backs are regularly benched for fumbling, regardless of who recovers.

Baffling that people would say 17 fumbles in 30 games is no biggie

Crazy right? Because we recovered 12 of them, its not a problem? Miss me with that.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-2020

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-career-fumbles

yes we know you look at it in a vacuum.

Thats your reply to him for posting essentially the same thing that you did? So your links werent in a vacuum but his were? LOL

we already know JGs fumbles as it was discussed. i posted links to the past 32 games of other QBs for comparison.

how hard is it to understand?

Ok, then here is a link to the fumbles per dropback from 2017-2020 for QBs with at least as many attempts as Jimmy. Jimmy is the 7th highest.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+qb+fumbles+%2A+100+per+%28passing+attempt+%2B+rushing+attempt%29+2017+to+2020+with+more+than+800+passing+attempts

ok but it's a dataset that's leaving out some recent QBs because of a specific set of qualifiers. like not including Mahomes.

Come on man, denying Jimmy is turnover prone is like denying the sky is blue.

Originally posted by boast:

"If they go with Jimmy, then they're probably going to end up competing for a playoff spot. If it's Trey and he ascends, then they are going to be competing for a division title. If it's Trey and he's not that good, then build for next year." By @SandoNFLhttps://t.co/RB8hVUeLPJ

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) September 3, 2021

That's Sando's words right? I think they are competing for a title with jimmy.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do and never said fumbling isn't something we should avoid. I'm pointing out it's incredibly misleading to just throw a stat like that out with no other context. Makes it seem like he's fumbling every other time he gets hit.

That's why I posted other qb's #'s. Go look them up for yourself.

The top 20 guys with the most career fumbles are all quarterbacks. 5 of which are HOF and a number of future HOF.

Just throwing a stat like that and then talking about a RB benched for fumbles is disingenuous.

I edited but you replied before you saw it.

The other QB #s you posted I didnt understand and still dont. Jimmy fumbles more than all of them (aside from being fractions of a percent better than Watson, who fumbles at a much lower rate when factoring in attempts).

If you think me talking about RBs being benched for fumbles is disingenuous, then you were simply way too quick to come to Jimmy's defense because you COMPLETELY misunderstood the point of why I even brought it up. I brought it up because a couple posters essentially believe that as long as the 49ers recovered the ball, the fumbles should be ignored. Fumble recoveries (as I am sure you know) are largely due to luck. Just because we recovered a majority of them, doesnt mean the fumbling isnt a problem....which, again, is why I mentioned RBs being benched for fumbling regardless of who recovered.

My point is that talking about RB's getting benched for fumbling is similar to a qb getting credited for fumbles is disingenuous.

It's not a qualitative stat. It'd be like someone talking about Trey's comp % in pre-season without mentioning all the drops. It's misleading and disingenuous.

It's also why I was responding to French. He's said its crazy that people would brush off 17 fumbles in 30 games(really 32). Watson has 30 in 54 and I've never heard anyone talk about Watson having a fumbling problem.

It's because everyone understands that's a stat that doesn't mean much considering that many fumbles credited are not actually fumbles.

Kurt Warner has 104 fumbles in 124 career games. He's in the HOF and I've never heard of Warner having a fumbling problem.

Must've been so crazy how during all those HOF seasons no one was worried about his fumbles.

Still missing the point with the first bolded.

You must not have paid attention with the second bolded. Warner was criticized his entire career about being loose with the ball and fumbling too much.

Again, you are totally missing the point in this discussion. No one is being disingenious. You are just not happy with the content of what is being discussed. Jimmy turns the ball over too much (interceptions and fumbling the ball). Not sure how any unbiased person would go to such lengths to disagree with that. He does. We just have to hope our defense is good enough to combat that.

Or that Jimmy improves something he's never improved upon yet. It's not impossible, because some of his interceptions are due to inaccuracy, and some of those interceptions AND fumbles are due to misdiagnosing coverage (for fumbles, holding the ball when he should have thrown it). These things can possibly be improved.