Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by RasSuar:
He was selected for his abilities, of which running the ball is one. It is an ability that allows his coach and offensive coordinator to play a numbers game of football that other less mobile QBs like Jimmy cannot. This is the reality no matter how you want to frame it because math doesn't lie. 11 on 11 football > 10 on 11 football for an offensive system. The arm talent, decision-making, intangibles, etc. are all additional to that.

I agree with you but I would phrase it backwards.

The arm talent and pocket decision making are the abilities that set up the mobility.

Everybody remembers Joe Montana Roger Staubach Aaron Rodgers Russ Wilson.

Nobody remembers Bobby Douglass, Colin Kapernec a whole bunch of other "great athletes" who came out of run-heavy, college systems to fail in the pros because they couldn't read a damn comic book downfield.

The pass sets up the run.

Passing competence comes first. Eyes to brain to arm. That has to be right or you got a paperweight in the pocket.

trey needs to produce in the pocket before he uses his feet to win games. Otherwise he'll be another 3 year flash in the pan

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

what if Jimmy Trey is greater than Jimmy or Trey by themselves?

never worked that way in the history of pro football. your telling both quarterbacks that neither is good enough to lead the team. Bad messaging. Because the competencies are different bringing in a qb will be a tell. DC's will eat that up after a couple of games of tape.

Do you really want Jimmy running into brick walls?

Do you really want trey throwing 90 mph screen passes?

No. No we do not want that. We want to put players in a position to be successful. We want to play to their strengths.

We don't want them running plays that they suck at just because our OC is trying to out-psych their DC.

But that's what we will get into if we play the let-me-outhink-you-outhinking-me-outhinking-you dual qb substitution mind games

It a novelty. A gimmick. Won't last more than a game or two. Is that really our strategy? Of course not. Were we really going to draft Mac Jones? Of course not.

This is kyle having fun with the press and making sure trey has the right agenda filled with items that get him to the pocket passing promised land.

It has worked before.

Originally posted by Heed49er:
It has worked before.

Nope. Never.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
He was selected for his abilities, of which running the ball is one. It is an ability that allows his coach and offensive coordinator to play a numbers game of football that other less mobile QBs like Jimmy cannot. This is the reality no matter how you want to frame it because math doesn't lie. 11 on 11 football > 10 on 11 football for an offensive system. The arm talent, decision-making, intangibles, etc. are all additional to that.

I agree with you but I would phrase it backwards.

The arm talent and pocket decision making are the abilities that set up the mobility.

Everybody remembers Joe Montana Roger Staubach Aaron Rodgers Russ Wilson.

Nobody remembers Bobby Douglass, Colin Kapernec a whole bunch of other "great athletes" who came out of run-heavy, college systems to fail in the pros because they couldn't read a damn comic book downfield.

The pass sets up the run.

Passing competence comes first. Eyes to brain to arm. That has to be right or you got a paperweight in the pocket.

trey needs to produce in the pocket before he uses his feet to win games. Otherwise he'll be another 3 year flash in the pan

How hasn't Trey produced in the pocket so far?

He's ran a handful of times
Numerous drops for first downs
has the most TDs than all the First round QBs

He just needs playing time

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:
It has worked before.

Nope. Never.

You're wrong. The Broadcasters literally listed other times teams have used a dual QB system during the Raiders game.

Brees & Hill for the Saints
Flacco & Jackson for the Ravens
Staubach & Morten for the Cowboys
Van Brocklin & Waterfield for the Rams
Woodley & Strock for the Dolphins
O'Donnell & Stewart for the Steelers
Smith & Kaepernick
Montana & Young
Warner & Leinart for the Cardinals

I just want to win... I dont care if its Trey, Trey + Jimmy, Jimmy's pornstar gf... whoever gets the Ws

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
I just want to win... I dont care if its Trey, Trey + Jimmy, Jimmy's pornstar gf... whoever gets the Ws

My name is Andra and I approve of this message

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
How hasn't Trey produced in the pocket so far?

He's ran a handful of times
Numerous drops for first downs
has the most TDs than all the First round QBs

He just needs playing time

40 dropbacks Seven sacks. No game over 50% completion. That's a billboard that says not ready all caps

Originally posted by Heed49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:
It has worked before.

Nope. Never.

You're wrong. The Broadcasters literally listed other times teams have used a dual QB system during the Raiders game.

Brees & Hill for the Saints
Flacco & Jackson for the Ravens
Staubach & Morten for the Cowboys
Van Brocklin & Waterfield for the Rams
Woodley & Strock for the Dolphins
O'Donnell & Stewart for the Steelers
Smith & Kaepernick
Montana & Young
Warner & Leinart for the Cardinals

Abbott and Costello
Cheech and Chong
Thelma & Louise
Batman and Robin
Starsky and Hutch
Bonnie and Clyde

My names have as much to do with a two-quarterback system as yours do.

A two-quarterback system isn't having two quarterbacks on the roster each one competing for a starting spot. It's shuffling quarterbacks in and out of play at the coaches discretion in an attempt to confuse the other team and and gain a playing advantage of some kind.

That's the dumbest idea ever for the hardest position in professional sports.

No coach has ever tried that in 50 years that I'm aware. And I'm not talking about situational substitutions. That usually winds up being a gimmick too and we'll see how often Peyton goes to it this season

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by genus49:
Take away his favorite reads? Huh?

The whole get game film on someone thing is a myth. How much film is there with Tom Brady? Rodgers? Mahomes?

if that was an actual thing then you would never see a QB improve or play well consistently as their career moves forward. That only applies to bad QBs who don't work to improve. And for those guys it's not as much that defenses adjust to them, it's that they adjust to the scheme or players around those guys get worse so they can't just do what they want to do and you can't stop them.

I keep saying this but Trey Lance is in a situation that isn't comparable to anyone else. So having him replicate the plan for say Mahomes or Kyler Murray isn't right or wrong. He's in a different spot so nobody knows what the best route is.

Im going to trust Shanahan who basically put his nuts on the table and said...I'm hinging my job on this kid's back. He's not going to hurt the team or Trey's development if he can help it.

Yes, nobody knows how a player will react to actual NFL games or pressure but we have glimpses of it through 3 preseason games. It showed a kid who isn't overwhelmed by the jump in competition but it shows a kid who isn't going to be a seasoned nfl pro like as a rookie. He's got things to work on, some of them being very critical so people have to have proper expectations. There will be bad mistakes. There will be bad throws but you have to trust the person long term.

Everyone who has met the kid raves about his work ethic, intelligence and drive to improve. Unlike say Kap who seemed to ignore key areas of improving as a QB(I still think Harbaugh changed him in that regard) Trey SHOULD be able to stay ahead of the competition. Especially when you have Kyle Shanahan in your corner. One thing you need though is game reps. So imo you have to get him on the field to grow quicker. I trust Kyle to do that without hurting the team or Trey's future.

That's so incredibly wrong. I cant believe you wrote that.

Game film is the single most important factor in professional competiton.

In every major sport not just football.

Every team blows hundreds of man hours every weekly microcycle analyzing game film from their own team and opponents.

The microscope doesn't get any more micro.

I didn't say looking at gamefilm is useless. I said the idea that getting more game film on a QB to stop their progress is a myth. And I gave you examples as to why it's stupid.

If game film is all it takes to stop a player why is Tom Brady doing what he's doing? Aaron Rodgers?

Game film is is used to plan and prep for players yes...if you can spot a tell or tendency you get an advantage. Doesn't mean that player isn't looking at the same film to self scout. And fixing those issues. The film is more prepping for scheme and not individual players. So like I said...more film doesn't guarantee someone starts to suck. When you see that happen it's because those players likely weren't going to be good to begin with. Or don't work enough to self scout and improve on their flaws.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by genus49:
Take away his favorite reads? Huh?

The whole get game film on someone thing is a myth. How much film is there with Tom Brady? Rodgers? Mahomes?

if that was an actual thing then you would never see a QB improve or play well consistently as their career moves forward. That only applies to bad QBs who don't work to improve. And for those guys it's not as much that defenses adjust to them, it's that they adjust to the scheme or players around those guys get worse so they can't just do what they want to do and you can't stop them.

I keep saying this but Trey Lance is in a situation that isn't comparable to anyone else. So having him replicate the plan for say Mahomes or Kyler Murray isn't right or wrong. He's in a different spot so nobody knows what the best route is.

Im going to trust Shanahan who basically put his nuts on the table and said...I'm hinging my job on this kid's back. He's not going to hurt the team or Trey's development if he can help it.

Yes, nobody knows how a player will react to actual NFL games or pressure but we have glimpses of it through 3 preseason games. It showed a kid who isn't overwhelmed by the jump in competition but it shows a kid who isn't going to be a seasoned nfl pro like as a rookie. He's got things to work on, some of them being very critical so people have to have proper expectations. There will be bad mistakes. There will be bad throws but you have to trust the person long term.

Everyone who has met the kid raves about his work ethic, intelligence and drive to improve. Unlike say Kap who seemed to ignore key areas of improving as a QB(I still think Harbaugh changed him in that regard) Trey SHOULD be able to stay ahead of the competition. Especially when you have Kyle Shanahan in your corner. One thing you need though is game reps. So imo you have to get him on the field to grow quicker. I trust Kyle to do that without hurting the team or Trey's future.

That's so incredibly wrong. I cant believe you wrote that.

Game film is the single most important factor in professional competiton.

In every major sport not just football.

Every team blows hundreds of man hours every weekly microcycle analyzing game film from their own team and opponents.

The microscope doesn't get any more micro.

I didn't say looking at gamefilm is useless. I said the idea that getting more game film on a QB to stop their progress is a myth. And I gave you examples as to why it's stupid.

If game film is all it takes to stop a player why is Tom Brady doing what he's doing? Aaron Rodgers?

Game film is is used to plan and prep for players yes...if you can spot a tell or tendency you get an advantage. Doesn't mean that player isn't looking at the same film to self scout. And fixing those issues. The film is more prepping for scheme and not individual players. So like I said...more film doesn't guarantee someone starts to suck. When you see that happen it's because those players likely weren't going to be good to begin with. Or don't work enough to self scout and improve on their flaws.

completely disagree. you are looking at polished passers who have the whole aresenal of the playbook at their disposal.

Players who have explicit weaknesses like only reading half the field/issue going through progressions, need read options/rollouts, trouble with certain type of passes trouble with certain type of zone reads, etc

that's where watching film and exploring those weaknesses help

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
How hasn't Trey produced in the pocket so far?

He's ran a handful of times
Numerous drops for first downs
has the most TDs than all the First round QBs

He just needs playing time

40 dropbacks Seven sacks. No game over 50% completion. That's a billboard that says not ready all caps

He's not a finished product by any means. But he's made the throws, nice ones, but he can't catch them himself to raise that comp%

Sacks are on the OL. He's not standing back there for 5+ secs. and just taking a sack. See the hit he got injured on?.. a LB came up the middle untouched

This is all very easy to see. unless you just go by the box score

He's on his way... as he keeps getting better every game

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:
It has worked before.

Nope. Never.

You're wrong. The Broadcasters literally listed other times teams have used a dual QB system during the Raiders game.

Brees & Hill for the Saints
Flacco & Jackson for the Ravens
Staubach & Morten for the Cowboys
Van Brocklin & Waterfield for the Rams
Woodley & Strock for the Dolphins
O'Donnell & Stewart for the Steelers
Smith & Kaepernick
Montana & Young
Warner & Leinart for the Cardinals

Abbott and Costello
Cheech and Chong
Thelma & Louise
Batman and Robin
Starsky and Hutch
Bonnie and Clyde

My names have as much to do with a two-quarterback system as yours do.

A two-quarterback system isn't having two quarterbacks on the roster each one competing for a starting spot. It's shuffling quarterbacks in and out of play at the coaches discretion in an attempt to confuse the other team and possibly take advantage of situational opportunity.

That's the dumbest idea ever for the hardest position in professional sports.

No coach has ever tried that in 50 years that I'm aware. And I'm not talking about situational substitutions. That usually winds up being a gimmick too and we'll see how often Peyton goes to it this season

Oh, you're an immature Troll that can't handle being wrong. Have a great season

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
How hasn't Trey produced in the pocket so far?

He's ran a handful of times
Numerous drops for first downs
has the most TDs than all the First round QBs

He just needs playing time

40 dropbacks Seven sacks. No game over 50% completion. That's a billboard that says not ready all caps

He's not a finished product by any means. But he's made the throws, nice ones, but he can't catch them himself to raise that comp%

Sacks are on the OL. He's not standing back there for 5+ secs. and just taking a sack. See the hit he got injured on?.. a LB came up the middle untouched

This is all very easy to see. unless you just go by the box score

He's on his way... as he keeps getting better every game

The drops are because hes too nervous to have touch. Your the one who's not watching. Everybody in the media can see he's not ready, they just polite about it.

And the natural reaction is to throw him to the wolves by demanding he contribute as an athletic runner.

Totally wrong.

Unless he has a whole bunch of tranformative practices, he probably won't help us much this season. That's ok. We have a plan for that.

And, he WILL get playing time this season -- a few games when Jimmy goes down with a p*n* strain, or when we are up 37-0 with 8 minutes left in the third quarter.

He will play.

And when he does I know Kyle will get him out there running the complete playbook while putting together time killing drives.

One step at a time. What's the most important thing for Trey Lance to do so he can grow? Relax.

That's job 1. Getting him out of the spotlight is part of that.

Originally posted by Heed49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Heed49er:
It has worked before.

Nope. Never.

You're wrong. The Broadcasters literally listed other times teams have used a dual QB system during the Raiders game.

Brees & Hill for the Saints
Flacco & Jackson for the Ravens
Staubach & Morten for the Cowboys
Van Brocklin & Waterfield for the Rams
Woodley & Strock for the Dolphins
O'Donnell & Stewart for the Steelers
Smith & Kaepernick
Montana & Young
Warner & Leinart for the Cardinals

Abbott and Costello
Cheech and Chong
Thelma & Louise
Batman and Robin
Starsky and Hutch
Bonnie and Clyde

My names have as much to do with a two-quarterback system as yours do.

A two-quarterback system isn't having two quarterbacks on the roster each one competing for a starting spot. It's shuffling quarterbacks in and out of play at the coaches discretion in an attempt to confuse the other team and possibly take advantage of situational opportunity.

That's the dumbest idea ever for the hardest position in professional sports.

No coach has ever tried that in 50 years that I'm aware. And I'm not talking about situational substitutions. That usually winds up being a gimmick too and we'll see how often Peyton goes to it this season

Oh, you're an immature Troll that can't handle being wrong. Have a great season

.