Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by spraked:
I agree that is what Kap is doing but not wilson and lance. Look at the hips and shoulder level. Both Wilson and Trey have their hips open or opening first which will push the off hand in and allow the rotation to be fast and short. Kap is still square to the front which means his whole body will be rotating at the same time and he will use that arm for momentum and balance like you said.

Also if you look Wilson and Trey have the hips parallels to their shoulders where Kap has his left shoulder up high and his hips level to the ground. That ball is going to be high. Trey is flat on both, Wilson has both his left hip and right hip higher. Wilsons launch angle is set high so this could be one of his arching passes.

Looking at the one of jimmy posted here you can see the open hips and what is going to be a quick rotation, also his left shoulder is higher then the hip. I would guess this is one that was higher than he wanted it.

Scary thing with Kap is that he would have a lot more power if he fixed this rotation. That is nuts to think about.

The plane of the hips/shoulders depends upon the type of ball thrown, so that is going to change... lots of guys will have the shoulder plane tilt down with the passing shoulder to create a longer radius on their motion (Brees does this a lot)... its the timing from the ground up of the feet/hips/shoulder/arm that matters... ya, if Kap had more correct passing mechanics he could have generated a lot more power which is scary... the high ball is due to inadequate transfer of weight from the back to the front and driving into the lead foot, part of Trey's problems

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree with this…and yes Zack had the best mechanics of all the prospects in this class without a doubt.

I thought Lance improved tremendously on his footwork from 2019 to the off season clips we saw. He just needs more reps and to get more confident in his reads, when he loses that confidence he reverts back into some of his bad habits. All the double clutching and not being in rhythm messes up that footwork while your in the pocket.

Pretty easy to have good mechanics in a t-shirt and shorts. It means jack s**t when you revert to dogs**t mechanics in a preseason game even after supposedly working on those mechanics for a full year

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by ninerFate:
Said breakdown

Kurt pretty much summed up everything we've been discussing the last few weeks: Trey's footwork stinks at times, and he's either not seeing the field well or not trusting what he's seeing on too many throws, which is causing him to double clutch, be late and/or inaccurate.

I'm excited to see him get better because we know he's got the work ethic.

I agree with all this…what's funny though, is Jimmy's footwork also stinks, he doesn't see the field well, he double clutches and is late/high on this throws too…not as consistently as Lance but he's far from a polished QB.

I liked that he added that the ball looked like it may have glanced off a helmet on that weird throw vs the Raiders. Would explain a lot. haha

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree with this…and yes Zack had the best mechanics of all the prospects in this class without a doubt.

I thought Lance improved tremendously on his footwork from 2019 to the off season clips we saw. He just needs more reps and to get more confident in his reads, when he loses that confidence he reverts back into some of his bad habits. All the double clutching and not being in rhythm messes up that footwork while your in the pocket.

Pretty easy to have good mechanics in a t-shirt and shorts. It means jack s**t when you revert to dogs**t mechanics in a preseason game even after supposedly working on those mechanics for a full year

and this is what is most disappointing, for a QB drafted 3rd overall their passing skills shouldn't need fixing... nobody needs to fix the passing of Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Mac Jones because they are natural passers... no Treyscuses allowed

Me wishing we had Russell Wilson lol.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
twins

I see where you're going with this...and it's not a place you want to be.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
twins

I see where you're going with this...and it's not a place you want to be.

No it's not, I want Trey to be a much better QB than Kap ever was

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Man, if I didn't cancel my Adobe After Effects subscription, I'd make a sweet side-by-side to illustrate how similar these dudes are up top. The difference is in the feet. Allen is very good now with his feet.

Yup agreed, Allen had some sloppy feet in college all the same…he started working with Palmer and blew up last yr. I'd like Lance go workout with him this yr at some point.

Next year will have to do. He's busy until mid February.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Man, if I didn't cancel my Adobe After Effects subscription, I'd make a sweet side-by-side to illustrate how similar these dudes are up top. The difference is in the feet. Allen is very good now with his feet.

Yup agreed, Allen had some sloppy feet in college all the same…he started working with Palmer and blew up last yr. I'd like Lance go workout with him this yr at some point.

Next year will have to do. He's busy until mid February.

one thing that kurt mentioned which is a really good point is that in short/intermediate throws he has the arm talent where he doesn't need to use his whole body to throw its unnecessary and that will help in terms of not making every throw a fastball

Originally posted by Heroism:
Man, if I didn't cancel my Adobe After Effects subscription, I'd make a sweet side-by-side to illustrate how similar these dudes are up top. The difference is in the feet. Allen is very good now with his feet.

Yup. Just hoping he gets that same training and focus here!

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
twins

I see where you're going with this...and it's not a place you want to be.

No it's not, I want Trey to be a much better QB than Kap ever was

Fact is their throwing mechanics are not "twin" like.

They're both big with long strides as runners. That's pretty much the only comparison outside of the obvious mixed race QBs playing for the 49ers.

Kap was uber talented but it wasn't his throwing motion that did him in. It was that his work was too much to improve his physical traits and he didn't work nearly as much on the mental side of the position.

There's a reason why when Crabtree left the team he threw Kap right under the bus(and that was after Kap went to bat for him and said how he'd take 1 on 1 with Crab all day long)

"I haven't talked to Kap since I left. ... And I hope he get in those books, and watch that film and know what he's doing out there."

I don't know Trey Lance personally but everything I've read about the guy and everything I've heard from his coaches, trainers or anyone who has worked with him in some capacity, things like that will not be an issue with him.

I would also argue that despite Trey having a lot less pass attempts than Kap by the time he was in the NFL(nearly 1k more pass attempts) he's further along as a passer and certainly further along in terms of running a pro offense.

We all want Trey to be the best QB we've ever had. I think people just need to understand where he's at right now and realize he's got a long career ahead of him and there will be growing pains but there will be a lot of growth based on what he's able to do now and how much he can learn through experience and practice/training.

I can't believe how off the mark most of you are, you're all talking about Trey without acknowledging the glaringly obvious, sometimes everything is right, footwork, mechanics, rotations, touch, accuracy.

Sometimes it's all wrong, it's all tied to him being ready to throw, being in rhythm and on time, it's all due to what he sees or what he doesn't.

When he is unsure where he's supposed to go with the football everything breaks down.

What he needs is to learn the offense, diagnose what he sees from the defense and then to trust his eyes.

It will come, I guarantee it and when it does we won't be having these conversations.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by ninerFate:
Said breakdown

Kurt pretty much summed up everything we've been discussing the last few weeks: Trey's footwork stinks at times, and he's either not seeing the field well or not trusting what he's seeing on too many throws, which is causing him to double clutch, be late and/or inaccurate.

I'm excited to see him get better because we know he's got the work ethic.

I agree with all this…what's funny though, is Jimmy's footwork also stinks, he doesn't see the field well, he double clutches and is late/high on this throws too…not as consistently as Lance but he's far from a polished QB.

Ok...footwork and throwing mechanics tied to the feet are not the same. Jimny's footwork, as far as dropbacks, is really good. I really don't get this criticism you always heap on him. I've seen you post this do many times. Define that without talking about throwing off his back foot(which is more throwing mechanics).

Doesn't see the field well? I think you need to watch fewer Twitter clips. I've seen too many of those guys dogging Jimmy for going to an open 1 or 2 in a progression, or the hot/alert when the center gave the wrong slide to or away from the Mike side.

To the first I've seen a number of Twitter guys show clips of open receivers and how Jimmy "missed" them when they are #3 or 4 in a progression and Jimmy threw to #1 or 2.

Or he threw it to the hot/alert and they do the same thing.

I get deserved criticism. But there's so much ridiculous criticism. If he were half as bad Twitter made him out to be he'd be unemployed.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by ninerFate:
Said breakdown

Kurt pretty much summed up everything we've been discussing the last few weeks: Trey's footwork stinks at times, and he's either not seeing the field well or not trusting what he's seeing on too many throws, which is causing him to double clutch, be late and/or inaccurate.

I'm excited to see him get better because we know he's got the work ethic.

I agree with all this…what's funny though, is Jimmy's footwork also stinks, he doesn't see the field well, he double clutches and is late/high on this throws too…not as consistently as Lance but he's far from a polished QB.

Ok...footwork and throwing mechanics tied to the feet are not the same. Jimny's footwork, as far as dropbacks, is really good. I really don't get this criticism you always heap on him. I've seen you post this do many times. Define that without talking about throwing off his back foot(which is more throwing mechanics).

Doesn't see the field well? I think you need to watch fewer Twitter clips. I've seen too many of those guys dogging Jimmy for going to an open 1 or 2 in a progression, or the hot/alert when the center gave the wrong slide to or away from the Mike side.

To the first I've seen a number of Twitter guys show clips of open receivers and how Jimmy "missed" them when they are #3 or 4 in a progression and Jimmy threw to #1 or 2.

Or he threw it to the hot/alert and they do the same thing.

I get deserved criticism. But there's so much ridiculous criticism. If he were half as bad Twitter made him out to be he'd be unemployed.

Oh god. Here we go with another 10 pages dedicated solely to Jimmy, in the Trey Lance thread

The thing here Johnny is that you consistently talk about the high end of Jimmy's game. That's fine, I do too, grading the high end is important as it allows you to see what you can get.

However when you talk about Trey you grade the low end. You say that Trey this year would limit where this team can go, I completely disagree.

You know football, you know the 49ers, you know Kyle. Trey gives us a numbers advantage on every single run play. That alone when paired with our Defense is enough to get us a long way.

Kyle is seemingly going to use this regularly while starting Jimmy.

Jimmy is going to have to play at his high end to keep his job, it's as simple as that, and even then when Trey gets to his high end play with consistency again we'll roll with Trey.