Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
and then again running the football isn't about 11 vs 11 or wildcat, it's about getting more blockers at the point of attack than defenders

next game, draw a line through the center and count how many offensive guys and defensive guys there are on each half of that linel, trying to get more offensive blockers at the point of attack than defenders is the goal, this is simple math and the object of running the ball

Cant trust it then.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
we just see it differently then, I may be wrong but you seem to imply that all you need to do is teach someone the mechanics of passing and you have a QB... that hasn't been my experience, you can only get so far with mechanics only... the way I have seen it is that passing is like any other gift you can just do it well if you have the gift... it's something you see someone do and it's recognizable, and I don't see this is Trey... this probably won't be the explanation you want but it's the best I can do

You are correct in one thing: teaching someone doesn't guarantee anything. For example, Kyle shanahan could teach me better footwork, throwing motion, whatever but I have nowhere near an arm to succeed in the nfl. You could also have a guy with the arm but without the will (jamarcus Russell).

So yes, you need mechanics, you need the arm, you need the intelligence/recognition, and you need to be elite at ALL of those things if you want to be at the top in the nfl. That is why it's the hardest position in sports.

But elite players don't just "have a gift"

agreed, they have to work at it... but there is an intangible quality when the bullets start flying to make plays and some just can't do this... Take Josh Rosen for example, elite arm talent, intelligent, but for whatever reason during the play he can't consistently make plays... but I digress and am not talking about great productive qbs just throwing mechanics

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
passing mechanics are important, and Trey doesn't have them in a sound way right now, and it is disappointing from a #3 pick because right now he is not a good passer.. not sure what you are arguing but that is my point

This is actually not true.

Why do people keep saying this? If Trey was slow and immobile, I don't think anyone would be saying that. It's as if every time a QB is able to run and has highlights running the ball, his throwing mechanics are ultra-scrutinized. People calling him "Kaep 2.0" for instance are seriously blind or biased.

Ugh this is so bad…how could he ever play football

Trey Lance
Progression is A+
Pocket Awareness A+
Accuracy A+
28-0 TD-INT

Kid is going to be a top 5 pick in 2021#TreyLance pic.twitter.com/gA5MEFrTqj

— John Chapman (@JL_Chapman) June 26, 2020

#FreakyFriday via 49ers QB Trey Lance showing impressive processing, anticipation, footwork, velocity, & ball placement on the TD pass pic.twitter.com/wkh5K1XTm9

— The Scouting Academy (@TheScoutAcademy) August 27, 2021

kid is just super young and needs more experience. Kyle will put him in a position to succeed.

the thing i loved about him in the draft everything thats hardest to learn he already showed he can do it well in college everything he lacks is one of the easiest to teach. The hardest part for him will be the huge talent jump from FCS to NFL

When Trey gets the experience & puts it all together on the field Shanahan is going to have a field day with his offense for sure

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
and then again running the football isn't about 11 vs 11 or wildcat, it's about getting more blockers at the point of attack than defenders

next game, draw a line through the center and count how many offensive guys and defensive guys there are on each half of that linel, trying to get more offensive blockers at the point of attack than defenders is the goal, this is simple math and the object of running the ball

Cant trust it then.

nope, be skeptical of math

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by ritz126:
Let me clarify myself. They are pocket Qb first

Mahomes is mobile but no team is putting a spy on him or game planning around his ability to run

Just because a qb has the ability to run does not automatically make the offense better because its 11 on 11

Yeah and Trey's a pocket QB 1st. Not sure why this point was made.

A QB that knows how to use that ability can tax defenses,...especially with the way the rules are now.

i agree trey is a pocket qb first but his pocket mechanics are raw and it isnt surprising with the way he was used in college

his only full season he had 162 rushing attempts to 287 pass attempts (192 completed)

my point is playing a qb that is mobile does not make the offense better automatically and i supported that by saying the top 10-15 offenses in nfl history almost all of them were pocket qb who probably did not run more than a handful if any of designed runs because they were pocket qbs first

Originally posted by thl408:
Because Roman's run game was mainly inside zone, it couldn't benefit from the bootlegs that are in Kyle's offense (outside zone boot action), which is easy money when the target is Kittle/Deebo, who we know is breaking the first tackle. Funny enough, Geep Chryst (Tomsula) implemented an outside zone scheme, but it was mashed together with subpar personnel.

I think Kyle will be a bit impatient when it comes to bringing Lance up to speed. This is why I do think we will see an unorthodox QB rotation that will see Lance get increased reps if Lance shows he can handle it.

The rotation is because Kyle doesn't want Trey to sit out another year after not playing in 2020, which I respect since what the kid needs more than anything is just game time reps to acclimate to the speed of the NFL game.

But you're 100% correct about how Shanny's outside zone/inside zone combination will compliment with the playaction and bootleg game. Look no further than what Kyle did in 2012 with a less than polished pocket passing QB when RG3 won RotY with a supporting cast that pales in comparison to our own. That Redskins team had Alfred Morris, Pierre Garcon, Santana Moss, and Josh Morgan as its top weapons and they led the league in total rushing yards, scoring the 4th most points per game. Our offense from head to toe is far more complete than that squad. All it takes is for Trey to get into the flow of the NFL game for us to unlock that level of offense. And when he does our offense becomes....

Originally posted by ritz126:
Let me clarify myself. They are pocket Qb first

Mahomes is mobile but no team is putting a spy on him or game planning around his ability to run

Just because a qb has the ability to run does not automatically make the offense better because its 11 on 11

Actually it kinda does in today's league. It helps dictate coverages especially on 3rd downs. It opens up gaps in the running game. Like I said tell me the last pure pocket passing QB drafted that's been super successful?

teams are getting free yards and 1st downs because of their feet, go listen to young talk about today's game and the QBs.

And who's saying Lance isn't gonna be a pocket first QB? Clearly that's what kyle was working on with him during the preseason. Kyle wasn't given Lance any layup plays during the preseason unlike some other QBs.

Originally posted by ritz126:
my point is playing a qb that is mobile does not make the offense better automatically and i supported that by saying the top 10-15 offenses in nfl history almost all of them were pocket qb who probably did not run more than a handful if any of designed runs because they were pocket qbs first

Well yes. But playing a qb that is immobile with a big arm doesn't make the offense better automatically either. We just kind of end up in a roundabout regarding stuff like this. It goes without saying that other skills are required, mobile or statue.

All those qualities even, I'm taking the mobile guy just like any other team this day and age.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by ritz126:
my point is playing a qb that is mobile does not make the offense better automatically and i supported that by saying the top 10-15 offenses in nfl history almost all of them were pocket qb who probably did not run more than a handful if any of designed runs because they were pocket qbs first

Well yes. But playing a qb that is immobile with a big arm doesn't make the offense better automatically either. We just kind of end up in a roundabout regarding stuff like this. It goes without saying that other skills are required, mobile or statue.

All those qualities even, I'm taking the mobile guy just like any other team this day and age.

i would to but my point is i dont want trey to start over jimmy because hes more mobile i want him to work a bit on his qbing from the pocket first because those were not developed in college and like i said i don't blame him for that because that's the way he was used.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
nope, be skeptical of math

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
we should only run wildcat formation

Yes because that's 11 on 11 football

all the best offenses in nfl history have had pocket QBs

....as in no fast guys that can scramble and burn you?

As in methodically and effectively executing plays, driving down the field and scoring, while dominating time of possession.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
we should only run wildcat formation

Yes because that's 11 on 11 football

all the best offenses in nfl history have had pocket QBs

....as in no fast guys that can scramble and burn you?

As in methodically and effectively executing plays, driving down the field and scoring, while dominating time of possession.

There's been a bunch of great players that are excellent out of the pocket that have led great offenses. This is false,...but the OP already changed his wording, so...

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
nope, be skeptical of math

Originally posted by ritz126:
i would to but my point is i dont want trey to start over jimmy because hes more mobile i want him to work a bit on his qbing from the pocket first because those were not developed in college and like i said i don't blame him for that because that's the way he was used.

You get better playing in the pocket by playing football…let's stop acting like those passing attempts were a bunch of RPOs and bubble screens at NDSU. He was asked to do a lot more than a ton of college QBs, the foundation is there he just needs time and snaps

Even tho it's a commercial, him with Jerry gave me chills