Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
i dont think people need to be concerned about this treys release is fine

he is late on throws because he double clutches and another issue he has is he always throws using his whole body instead of just his arm. Other than that he needs to work on his ball placement and accuracy which can be fixed with his footwork

He's late on some of his throws because he's not confident in his reads…it's as simple as that. That's what leads to those double clutches and failed mechanics. We see when he is confident in his read that he has no problem making every throw and his mechanics/ball placement are more than fine.

It's more to do with he's simply not played a ton of football…that's one of the main things that will correct everything, playing football. People gotta deal with the ups and downs and be okay with it.

I agree with this 100%. A lot of the accuracy problems we've seen aren't likely to be solved from doing thousands of reps against air. In a sterile environment, they are probably non-existent. He needs live reps. Even Shanahan has said that much.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

I can't stop laughing Not only do you have one of the best handles, you go ahead and drop this?! Bravo

lI think Trey will easily be a top 10 QB regardless of mechanics or not being a natural thrower in your opinion. That is all this team needs to win SB's. Simple as that

Personally I care very little about mechanics, footwork and all that technical stuff, mainly because I'm football thick and don't understand it.

I only care about the end result of each throw or play from the QB.

Christ we need the games to start.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
i dont think people need to be concerned about this treys release is fine

he is late on throws because he double clutches and another issue he has is he always throws using his whole body instead of just his arm. Other than that he needs to work on his ball placement and accuracy which can be fixed with his footwork

He's late on some of his throws because he's not confident in his reads…it's as simple as that. That's what leads to those double clutches and failed mechanics. We see when he is confident in his read that he has no problem making every throw and his mechanics/ball placement are more than fine.

It's more to do with he's simply not played a ton of football…that's one of the main things that will correct everything, playing football. People gotta deal with the ups and downs and be okay with it.

I agree with this 100%. A lot of the accuracy problems we've seen aren't likely to be solved from doing thousands of reps against air. In a sterile environment, they are probably non-existent. He needs live reps. Even Shanahan has said that much.

Yup, you can push mechanics and practice all day long but he's not gonna truly develop until he plays live football. Fans are gonna have to deal with the ups and downs just like any rookie QB.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Lol. Think of it this way, do you want Trey to get the job cause he beat Tyrod Taylor or because he beat Tony Romo?

I just don't get the logic behind, "Jimmy sucks at 90% of quarterbacking, but I think he's average, but Trey should be starting at some point cause he's amazing, even though he couldn't beat a guy who sucks at 90% of quarterbacking".

That makes as much sense as me using a pro wrestling analogy. Hence why I did it.

Wish we could have used that analogy with Jimmy, who'd he have to beat out, Hoyer? got a $100M deal after 5 games on top of it

Duse, you should try taking some less bitter pills.

Think about what has to be true for Jimmy to be as bad as you say:
1. Kyle misevaluated and gave up a 2nd round pick for this guy, then turned around and will have paid him 110m by the end of this season.

He did. He gave up that 2nd round pick with the assumption that Jimmy would improve. He has not (and he may have actually regressed).

2. Mullens and Beathard have to be the worst qb's by a mile, to lose so many more games than Jimmy.

They are among the worst QBs in the NFL.

3. For Kyle to believe Jimmy gives us a better chance to win, Trey has to be pretty bad and we gave up 3 first round picks for that guy.

False. You are seeing it as a dichotomy of extremes. Jimmy is not bad. He's just not particularly good either. He wasn't when he was traded for, but Kyle assumed he would progress and become an elite QB. That never happened, and it seems he has some flaws that he's not going to be able to fix. That is why they traded that capital for someone who has more talent.

That means we have to have one of the worst quarterback evaluating coaches in thr league, who on top of it, overpays by a mile for bad players.

I'd rather live in a more positive world where I believe Kyle is one of the best at what he does. The only way for that to be true is for Jimmy to actually be a pretty darn good qb who hasn't been able to stay on the field.

That's false. When the trade for Jimmy was made, it was — again — assumed that he would improve. He has not. And before you say he hasn't had enough attempts, Josh Allen (and a few other young QBs as well) improved tremendously in roughly the same number of attempts. Jimmy simply never had the potential we all thought he did. Why, who knows. But up until this moment, he has simply stagnated or even regressed since 2017.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
I hope he learns as well. But from my experience natural passers are born, it's a gift, and they can just do it with very little coaching of mechanics. I don't believe Trey has a passing gift, they can teach him all the proper mechanics and it won't make much of a difference in the end.

Your experience lol. Oh okay

Steve young didn't even know how to hold a football in college.

if Trey has s**tty mechanics, I'd say he's pretty damn gifted for getting to where he is at this pt. Same as guys like Mahomes and Allen.

yes that is correct, I had the pleasure of working with a few young men in HS at the varsity level as an OC... my first was the section passing leader as a sophomore and the second kid I worked with lead the section until he broke his leg halfway through the season... i did pretty well in HS and played some in college... I don't know everything but I know enough to get myself in trouble LOL you won't believe this but thats fine since you are from NY

It appears you've never heard of Josh Allen. He is the quarterback of the Buffalo Bills. He dramatically improved his accuracy after some mechanical changes. Last year, he destroyed the 49ers secondary. But perhaps you don't watch 49er games, since you believe Lance and Kaepernick have the exact same mechanics. You can get NFL Gamepass fairly cheaply, and it will allow you to watch the 49ers Bills game last year, and you can also watch earlier Josh Allen games, and see how a young man with the right motivation can dramatically improve his accuracy through small mechanical changes.

Someone is going to break their neck with all the mental gymnastics trying to avoid just admitting they have no clue what they're talking about.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
and math tells us we can add up an infinite string of numbers and get a sum, if these numbers have a converging geometric pattern... which makes no sense at all

so be skeptical of math
.

Bruh, no. If that math was false then when you throw a baseball it'd never get to the target, because in order to get to the target it has to go halfway there, and in order to get halfway there it has to go a quarter of the way there, etc. Zeno's paradox.

I'm more skeptical of people who don't really understand a topic and then claim that the results derived from the topic are false because they don't personally understand them. It makes 100% perfect, logical sense, to the point that it can be rigorously proven mathematically.

In particular, if there exists a number ℓ such that for every positive number ϵ, there is an integer N such that for all n ≥ N, |L(n) - ℓ | < ϵ, then the series L is convergent. That is literally the definition of convergence. As such, yeah, the series converges. Since you can find numbers ℓ and ϵ for series we say converge.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Someone is going to break their neck with all the mental gymnastics trying to avoid just admitting they have no clue what they're talking about.

Hope you're not referring to me, since my strongest complaint about Jimmy — that he turns the ball over way to much to be considered anything than an average starter at best — is supported by the fact that he's literally never done better than 7th worst in the NFL in interception percentage since he's been here.

I truly hope he proves me wrong. That he takes a step I don't think he can, and steps into that top 12 QB range. I am naturally a pessimist and don't think he will. But it would be good, because Trey shouldn't be taking over till at least midway, and it would probably be better just to get his feet wet this season with some spot play, and take over next year.

.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Someone is going to break their neck with all the mental gymnastics trying to avoid just admitting they have no clue what they're talking about.

Hope you're not referring to me, since my strongest complaint about Jimmy — that he turns the ball over way to much to be considered anything than an average starter at best — is supported by the fact that he's literally never done better than 7th worst in the NFL in interception percentage since he's been here.

I truly hope he proves me wrong. That he takes a step I don't think he can, and steps into that top 12 QB range. I am naturally a pessimist and don't think he will. But it would be good, because Trey shouldn't be taking over till at least midway, and it would probably be better just to get his feet wet this season with some spot play, and take over next year.

I wasn't specifically speaking of any one person, but hey, if you think the shoe fits, try that motherf**ker on.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
All I said was Jimmy is an avg starting QB on a good roster with a great play-caller. I think you need to calm down with the defending Jimmy at all cost stuff.

yes I think they gave Jimmy a massive contract very prematurely. Yes I think people are gauging how good Jimmy is vs a gypsy back up quarterback, a UDFA, and a career backup who most people didn't even think was draftable.

I have faith in Kyle, but everyone f**ks up…if he was the great QB evaluator we would be rocking Mahomes/Watson/Allen right now.

if he thought Jimmy was everything you think he is, they wouldn't have given up yrs of 1sts and made one of the biggest move up in SF draft history.

I was just talking about your analogy with Trey, where was that for Jimmy? Dude hasn't had any competition since he got here…

look I don't think he blows, I most certainly don't think he's a good as you do…which is a subjective take for both of us.

I'm actually defending Kyle. But, whatever.

Hey man I don't want to get in another pissing match with you over Jimmy…I value your comments in here overall.

I do think you have some bias towards him end of the day.

also I defend Kyle in here all the time…even the best dudes get it wrong sometimes though.

Agreed. Every FO has their blind spots. That's well documented here now.

Do you think he got it right this time?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Every FO has their blind spots. That's well documented here now.

Do you think he got it right this time?

I hope so or he along with everyone else is gone. This isn't giving up a 2nd mid-season for a QB.this is a long-term investment…They're gonna make sure it's done the right way with Trey.

I will also say this, he will get the most out of Lance just like he has from every QB that he's had. We will have to see what that is…fans need to understand there will be ups and downs in that process, but I'm sure some won't (especially the ones that didn't want Lance to begin with).

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Someone is going to break their neck with all the mental gymnastics trying to avoid just admitting they have no clue what they're talking about.

Hope you're not referring to me, since my strongest complaint about Jimmy — that he turns the ball over way to much to be considered anything than an average starter at best — is supported by the fact that he's literally never done better than 7th worst in the NFL in interception percentage since he's been here.

I truly hope he proves me wrong. That he takes a step I don't think he can, and steps into that top 12 QB range. I am naturally a pessimist and don't think he will. But it would be good, because Trey shouldn't be taking over till at least midway, and it would probably be better just to get his feet wet this season with some spot play, and take over next year.

I wasn't specifically speaking of any one person, but hey, if you think the shoe fits, try that motherf**ker on.

If that's the case then you should maybe be wearing those shoes yourself, since the incredible mental gymnastics one must do to pretend that Jimmy isn't interception prone, despite the fact that since he's been here the offense has been mostly dink and dunk (our WRs led the league in YAC per reception despite Jimmy being last in avg. attempted air yards per pass... and yet he was 7th worst in interception percentage), are absolutely stunning.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Every FO has their blind spots. That's well documented here now.

Do you think he got it right this time?

I hope so or he along with everyone else is gone. This isn't giving up a 2nd mid-season for a QB.this is a long-term investment…They're gonna make sure it's done the right way with Trey.

I will also say this, he will get the most out of Lance just like he has from every QB that he's had. We will have to see what that is…fans need to understand there will be ups and downs in that process, but I'm sure some won't (especially the ones that didn't want Lance to begin with).

It's almost like these guys weren't alive when Alex Smith was our rookie QB. We have seen a bust, and it ain't Trey.