Brian Flores files discrimination lawsuit against Giants, Dolphins and the NFL.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

What are you talking about? Who are the racists? Easy label to throw around with no specific evidence. Are the 49ers racist? Is Jed York racist?

Also if you feel NFL Owners are the worst people on the planet (strong statement). What does that make you? Do you not support the club? Do you not support the league by watching? Are you not complicit?

The "what does that make you" argument is a classic deflection. Adds nothing to the Brian Flores racial discrimination suit discussion. Says nothing about the blatant racial discriminatory hiring practices of the NFL owners.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

What are you talking about? Who are the racists? Easy label to throw around with no specific evidence. Are the 49ers racist? Is Jed York racist?

Also if you feel NFL Owners are the worst people on the planet (strong statement). What does that make you? Do you not support the club? Do you not support the league by watching? Are you not complicit?

The "what does that make you" argument is a classic deflection. Adds nothing to the Brian Flores racial discrimination suit discussion. Says nothing about the blatant racial discriminatory hiring practices of the NFL owners.

I kinda regard York as a pretty cool dude. I didn't like the Yorks when they took over cuz wow the team dropped off dramatically. But Jed hired JH and KS. Club is doing well. New stadium. Seems to be having us in a good spot. I didn't realize he was in the running for worst person on Earth and the most racist individual on the planet. Hoping to have this explained to me as it is new info. Do you have anything here regarding York or are you just smearing all owners prior to this lawsuit having it's day and any facts being considered in a legal setting?

And to me it's no deflection. If I truly felt that owners were the worst people on the planet I wouldn't wear the T shirt of the club and put dollars in their pockets. I don't share your view on this. My dream job would be NFL owner it would be fun to run an NFL team. I lack the financial resources to pull this off... yet.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

What are you talking about? Who are the racists? Easy label to throw around with no specific evidence. Are the 49ers racist? Is Jed York racist?

Also if you feel NFL Owners are the worst people on the planet (strong statement). What does that make you? Do you not support the club? Do you not support the league by watching? Are you not complicit?

Cal McNair is absolutely a racist, most know enough nowadays to hide it.

We're talking about people who grew up in an era that black people couldn't use the same toilets as them, probably people whose grandfathers owned plantations. Why is anyone surprised that there is a bias that lingers from that?

I know I'm about to get "but he hired a black coach", its a similar argument to "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

If Racism wasn't prevalent in the NFL, why do they need rules to promote the opportunities for Black and minority candidates?

Elway responds.

"While I was not planning to respond publicly to the false and defamatory claims by Brian Flores, I could not be silent any longer with my character, integrity and professionalism being attacked," Elway said in a statement issued on Thursday. "I took Coach Flores very seriously as a candidate for our head coaching position in 2019 and enjoyed our three-and-a-half hour interview with him. Along with the rest of our group, I was prepared, ready and fully engaged during the entire interview as Brian shared his experience and vision for our team. . . . It's unfortunate and shocking to learn for the first time this week that Brian felt differently about our interview with him.

"For Brian to make an assumption about my appearance and state of mind early that morning was subjective, hurtful and just plain wrong. If I appeared 'disheveled,' as he claimed, it was because we had flown in during the middle of the night — immediately following another interview in Denver — and were going on a few hours of sleep to meet the only window provided to us. . . . I interviewed Brian in good faith, giving him the same consideration and opportunity as every other candidate for our head coaching position in 2019."

At paragraph 21 of the complaint, Flores made this allegation about his 2019 interview with the Broncos: "John Elway, President and Chief Executive Officer Joe Ellis and others, showed up an hour late to the interview. They looked completely disheveled, and it was obvious that they had [been] drinking heavily the night before. It was clear from the substance of the interview that Mr. Flores was interviewed only because of the Rooney Rule, and that the Broncos never had any intention to consider him as a legitimate candidate for the job. Shortly thereafter, Vic Fangio, a white man, was hired to be the Head Coach of the Broncos."

The presence of the word "defamatory" in Elway's statement raises the question of whether Elway is considering suing Flores for defamation. The strong Wednesday night statement from Dolphins owner Stephen Ross created a similar perception.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/03/john-elway-responds-to-false-and-defamatory-claims-made-by-brian-flores/

Flores claims they showed up an hour late, the Broncos claim that the interview was scheduled for 7:30 in the morning, that it started on time with all the principle decisionmakers there and ended at 11 AM.

Somebody is lying here and if its Flores then this dude might end up blowing up his own lawsuit altogether.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Cal McNair is absolutely a racist, most know enough nowadays to hide it.

We're talking about people who grew up in an era that black people couldn't use the same toilets as them, probably people whose grandfathers owned plantations. Why is anyone surprised that there is a bias that lingers from that?

I know I'm about to get "but he hired a black coach", its a similar argument to "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

If Racism wasn't prevalent in the NFL, why do they need rules to promote the opportunities for Black and minority candidates?

Ah so people of a certain age can be safely assumed of being racist. They are just hiding it which explains why there is no evidence. I thought the problem here is judging people not based on their actions but based on a characteristic out of their control. You seem to be judging based on age. For me let's judge based on fact, evidence, due process, etc. That's what this suit is all about. Let's let the facts come to light and withhold judgement until that time. And certainly let's not judge based on race, age or any other factor outside of ones deeds and actions. Otherwise we may be guilty of what we accuse of others.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Cal McNair is absolutely a racist, most know enough nowadays to hide it.

We're talking about people who grew up in an era that black people couldn't use the same toilets as them, probably people whose grandfathers owned plantations. Why is anyone surprised that there is a bias that lingers from that?

I know I'm about to get "but he hired a black coach", its a similar argument to "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

If Racism wasn't prevalent in the NFL, why do they need rules to promote the opportunities for Black and minority candidates?

Ah so people of a certain age can be safely assumed of being racist. They are just hiding it which explains why there is no evidence. I thought the problem here is judging people not based on their actions but based on a characteristic out of their control. You seem to be judging based on age. For me let's judge based on fact, evidence, due process, etc. That's what this suit is all about. Let's let the facts come to light and withhold judgement until that time. And certainly let's not judge based on race, age or any other factor outside of ones deeds and actions. Otherwise we may be guilty of what we accuse of others.

When you make statements like "we can't have the inmates running the prison" things are pretty clear where your views lie.

Deshaun Watson, prior to all the claims made it pretty clear how he felt about who he was working for.

No, you aren't racist just because you're of a certain age and background, but they are factors in how likely you are to be racist, then when you back it up, it becomes pretty clear.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

What are you talking about? Who are the racists? Easy label to throw around with no specific evidence. Are the 49ers racist? Is Jed York racist?

Also if you feel NFL Owners are the worst people on the planet (strong statement). What does that make you? Do you not support the club? Do you not support the league by watching? Are you not complicit?

The "what does that make you" argument is a classic deflection. Adds nothing to the Brian Flores racial discrimination suit discussion. Says nothing about the blatant racial discriminatory hiring practices of the NFL owners.

I kinda regard York as a pretty cool dude. I didn't like the Yorks when they took over cuz wow the team dropped off dramatically. But Jed hired JH and KS. Club is doing well. New stadium. Seems to be having us in a good spot. I didn't realize he was in the running for worst person on Earth and the most racist individual on the planet. Hoping to have this explained to me as it is new info. Do you have anything here regarding York or are you just smearing all owners prior to this lawsuit having it's day and any facts being considered in a legal setting?

And to me it's no deflection. If I truly felt that owners were the worst people on the planet I wouldn't wear the T shirt of the club and put dollars in their pockets. I don't share your view on this. My dream job would be NFL owner it would be fun to run an NFL team. I lack the financial resources to pull this off... yet.

I said NFL owners - plural. I never mentioned Jed York - singular. In fact, I didn't mention any NFL owner specifically. But your insistence on a specific owner speaks to the classic deflection I spoke of.

The NFL has a real problem with hiring Blacks as HC's. This is not on Roger Goodell, who has gone so far at to offer draft picks for hiring Black coaches. This isn't on Troy Vincent, who openly pointed to the "double standard" that "we've seen" regarding NFL owner's hiring practices of HC's. This is on the owners - full stop. Like yourself I'd love to own an NFL team. But even if I had the finances to buy a team there's no way on earth the owners would allow me - a proud Black man - into that club. Based off what we all have seen I'd have a better chance finding an ice machine in hell than being allowed to buy an NFL team buy said owners, no matter how much money I had.

But I digress . . .

This suit is necessary to begin the ball rolling for change in the NFL. Nothing of any significance changes in the NFL but by lawsuit or the threat of lawsuit. Johnnie Cochran's threat to sue the NFL lead to the Rooney rule. Reggie White had to sue the NFL which lead to free agency in the NFL. Bottom line, NFL owners generally have a real problem seeing a Black man running their football team and are mostly going out of their way to avoid seriously hiring Black coaches. That, good Sir, is a racist environment. Those environments can only be maintained by racist, those who have a stake in that environment, or those who are just indifferent. And as Black men we don't have the luxury to distinguish between the 3 because the end result is the same.

"You'd be better informed if instead of listening to what we say, you'd watch what we do."
Nixon administration Attorney General John Mitchell (yup, a convicted criminal)

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
When you make statements like "we can't have the inmates running the prison" things are pretty clear where your views lie.

You realize that was Bob McNair, who died in 2018.

I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
When you make statements like "we can't have the inmates running the prison" things are pretty clear where your views lie.

You realize that was Bob McNair, who died in 2018.

True, but his Freudian slip was somewhat of an insight into how other owners think when it comes to their players. His views didn't die with him.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

Whoa whoa talk about a privileged view. Some of the worst people on the planet? Really? I'm hoping you are just being dramatic but if that's how you see it then you are very sheltered and ignorant to the rest of the world

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

From the outside looking in it is confusing why Flores was fired from the Dolphins in the first place, because it wasn't for performance.

His teams put up a good fight for him they just weren't as talented as they needed to be to be a good team.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

I do agree that it'll be a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. But what investigating body do you think investigate? I say the FBI. Because the owners will never cooperate with any other.

If Jed tells you to tank for Bosa, you tank. No dry snitchin. Flores is a punk.