Brian Flores files discrimination lawsuit against Giants, Dolphins and the NFL.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
When you make statements like "we can't have the inmates running the prison" things are pretty clear where your views lie.

You realize that was Bob McNair, who died in 2018.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

From the outside looking in it is confusing why Flores was fired from the Dolphins in the first place, because it wasn't for performance.

His teams put up a good fight for him they just weren't as talented as they needed to be to be a good team.

I agree I thought his firing was moronic from a football perspective. Guy went 8-1 down the stretch. Hanlon's razor applies here. Had to look it up to get the exact wording: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I truly hope his suit gets certified as a Class Action, and Brian Flores wins. Actually, I hope this thing gets the ball rolling on some sort of discussion regarding some type legislation that will better govern NFL owners. This is one thing about the NFL (among others) that owners need to be forced to change. The NFL is perhaps THE best product on the planet. Sadly, it's owned by perhaps by some of THE most racist individuals on the planet (who I personally consider among the worst people on the planet). These folks are gonna have to be dragged into the 21 century - kicking and screaming - in terms of their hiring practices of HC's. I can't think of another industry in America that so blatantly practices racial discrimination as do NFL owners.

Go Brian Flores. I hope he's successful and that he coaches again in the NFL.

Whoa whoa talk about a privileged view. Some of the worst people on the planet? Really? I'm hoping you are just being dramatic but if that's how you see it then you are very sheltered and ignorant to the rest of the world

Oh trust me, I'm being dramatic on purpose. But shhhhhhhhh, [on my whisper voice] it's catnip for those who really seek to deflect and derail the conversation. To them, that language is just irresistible.

Again, the focus here is drifting, still no one has answered the question.

Why the two orders?

If you ordered that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed. Why did he need to be transferred?

I want the truth.

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

I do agree that it'll be a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. But what investigating body do you think investigate? I say the FBI. Because the owners will never cooperate with any other.

A simple judge or jury should suffice. Otherwise an independent prosecutor agreed upon by both parties. Any NFL investigation I will not trust the results they've botched enough of those already.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

offense

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm starting to lose my interest in siding with Flores. With everything that's coming out, it's starting to look like he's just being bitter. I understand that racism exists, probably even where I think it does not. But I'm tired of the race card being played everytime a minority gets passed over. You go into an interview process with your 1 (minority) or two, vs. the 6 white candidates and it's an odds game. You're a victim of numbers mostly. I don't feel like any team would pass on a minority if they were the best candidate, but maybe I'm naïve.

To side on way or the other without the facts is a guessing game, may as well flip a coin. Pretty fruitless. The man made serious accusations. Let's get to the bottom and side with the evidence. Just trust me it's a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. Let it be a fair and impartial 3rd party doing the investigating.

I do agree that it'll be a conflict of interest if the NFL investigates. But what investigating body do you think investigate? I say the FBI. Because the owners will never cooperate with any other.

A simple judge or jury should suffice. Otherwise an independent prosecutor agreed upon by both parties. Any NFL investigation I will not trust the results they've botched enough of those already.

The reason I say the FBI is because they have police powers the owners have to respect. I don't necessarily disagree with a judge and jury. The results of a full FBI investigation in the hands of a judge and jury would be great. However, a judge and jury alone would turn into a circus, and likely result in the status quo remaining, IMHO.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

offense

So that's why he was fired?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

If you believe the lawsuit his failing is he didn't lose on purpose which is a credit to him. But I don't believe anything on faith when it comes to two parties having a dispute. I hope it is looked into. I've learned performance doesn't matter anyone can be fired. I mean Jimmy Johnson was canned. Jim Harbaugh was canned. Schottenheimer they canned him after a 14-2 season. Coaches with much better won/loss records have been fired without a second thought. It's the NFL which stands for Not For Long.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

offense

So that's why he was fired?

Didn't want to develop Tua, is what i took before and throughout the season

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Question: what were Brian Flores' inadequacies?

If you believe the lawsuit his failing is he didn't lose on purpose which is a credit to him. But I don't believe anything on faith when it comes to two parties having a dispute. I hope it is looked into. I've learned performance doesn't matter anyone can be fired. I mean Jimmy Johnson was canned. Jim Harbaugh was canned. Schottenheimer they canned him after a 14-2 season. Coaches with much better won/loss records have been fired without a second thought. It's the NFL which stands for Not For Long.

That's fair, but most of those coaches get rehired pretty quickly, most black coaches do not. Flores has actual evidence for part of this (interview process), and a belief that his firing was motivated by other factors. Remember this is a class action and he wants other coaches to join him and effect change in the hiring and firing of minority candidates. One suggestion (that should happen anyway) is greater transparency of the process. That just can't be a bad thing.

Ok, so here are some thoughts as things have come out a bit more. So this was actually Flores' second interview with the Giants that occurred in person on the 27th. This is still what officially satisfied the Rooney Rule, as it was the first in-person interview. So my question is, if you were convinced this was going to be a "sham interview" based off a text you got on the 24th - from someone not even in the organization - then why proceed with the interview? Why "let them use you" if you feel it is just going to be a waste of your time? Just cancel the interview and move on. Now the Giants had an in-person interview on the next day anyway, with Leslie Frazier - which also would have completed satisfying the Rooney Rule. So why would the Giants "waste their own time" by OVER-SATISFYING the Rooney Rule if their decision was already made?

Flores says he was offered money to tank the 2019 season. And he refused. So why wasn't he fired after the 2020 season? Why did the Dolphins wait until after the 2021 season?

And then the big one. If Flores was offered money to tank the 2019 season, then why did HE wait TWO YEARS to say anything about it? Something so offensive and unheard of to a person of high moral character - that he didn't quit? Or report it to the league office at the time? But waits until AFTER he is fired, THEN has a problem with it?

If the NFL has no problem with the hiring and firing of black and minority coaches, why does it need not one, but two rules to improve said process?

The NFL are openly admitting unfairness, but then staunchly defend an accusation of said unfairness before even hearing the details of the allegation.