Brian Flores files discrimination lawsuit against Giants, Dolphins and the NFL.

Originally posted by Joecool:
MIA covering their token interview with McDaniel.

Interesting how you think a black GM would do this.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Won't go to court, lol

Here's the relevant language, directly from another head coach's contract: "[Coach] agrees that . . . all matters in dispute between [Coach] and Club, including without limitation any dispute arising from the terms of this Agreement, shall be referred to the NFL Commissioner or a Commissioner-appointed representative for the NFL for binding arbitration, and the decision shall be accepted as final, conclusive and unappealable."

Lol, there's a flaw in your understanding of the law. While his dispute with induvial teams could end up in arbitration, his class action claims against the NFL (the league itself) is a different matter. If his suit gets certified as a class action (which he's on solid legal ground for) this is destined for settlement, or a jury trial, the latter of which the NFL is bound to lose.

Originally posted by Jcool:
I see EVERYONE is outraged & yet I have yet to see one good solution. Very few jobs filled where you go WTF when it comes to who a team is hiring. Ironically David Culley was one of those WTF hires. You aren't seeing these cant miss black coaches being passed over for average white coaches. I mean I guess you could hire an B- candidate who is black over a A- candidate who is white and black candidate could turn out to be better. Coaching hiring is kind of a crap shoot... But that doesn't seem like a good way to hire the person who gives your team the best chance to win. I think really the only solution is to start having teams hire more black coaches on the offensive side of the ball. Seems like most black coaches up for jobs are on the defensive side of the ball and we are in an increasingly offensive league. As for Eric Bieniemy, the rumors are he isn't interviewing well and might not have a great plan in place for his staff. Brian Daboll seemed like a lock last year to get a head coaching job and was passed over. Something has to be up other then just not hiring a black coach since we have seen many black coaches getting 2nd interviews this cycle & he hasn't gotten one interview.

We see it a few times actually. I went WTF with Joe Judge. I'm very skeptical about promoting position coaches to head coaching jobs and in the case of Joe Judge, he was the Patriots receivers coach when the receivers were the weakness of the Patriots. His group was so bad that I thought Tom Brady was done. Yet he was interviewed and hired. We hired Jim Tomsula. You didn't go WTF? We hired Chip Kelly after the disaster in Philly. Black coaches that finish how he did in Philly usually don't immediately walk into another job. Adam Gase's hire in New York didn't make you go WTF? Brandon Staley's didn't make you do that? 6 years ago he was coaching at a Division 3 school I believe and had one year as a defensive coordinator on a defense with Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey. Dan Campbell didn't make you go WTF? A TE coach? Do you think Jon Embree, who had the same title as Campbell TE Coach/Asst. HC would get an interview? And Embree had an All-Pro TE come up under him. Josh McDaniels getting opportunity number 3? BTW, I did go WTF on David Culley. I thought he should've never been hired, but then when I saw some progress with Davis Mills, as well as some nice victories where the team played above the talent level, my position changed to well let's see what happens if they give him some players.
Coaching hiring is not the crap shoot that people make it out to be. Look at the bolded. Does the black coach have to be a can't miss? There are very few can't miss guys. I can only think of two off the top of my head that I would apply that label to. The suggestion you immediately made afterwards doesn't tend to happen. What we have seen is a lot of D and F hires (see my previous paragraph) over B and C black candidates.

I honestly don't use Eric Bienemy as an example because I personally wouldn't hire him. But the precedent is there wth his predecessors (Matt Nagy and Doug Pederson) who got jobs despite not calling plays. Now I get it, Nagy and Pederson work with QBs, so there's that. But based on that, Pep Hamilton (who has a GREAT track record) and Byron Leftwich should be in there already. These invisible rules people like to apply keep shifting to justify what's going on.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I think the point is being missed here by many, it's not about whether Flores should have been hired or fired.

It's about if Flores was white would the same thing have happened?

It's hard to quantify but you look around the landscape a strong case can be made that it wouldn't.

It then goes further, and many names have been brought up, and there are more, Jim Caldwell, Leslie Frazier, Vance Joseph, Kris Richard.

Imagine their careers as they are Vs equivalent white coaches.

That's the issue. That's why there's a lawsuit.

I'll bite.

Yes, I think Flores would have been fired if he was white because Ross is a dick that has had one-itis for Harbaugh for a decade and apparently believed that he had him in the bag. The moment Flores was fired, most people assumed it was with Miami making a run at Harbaugh.

I don't think it makes sense to argue that Ross was racist enough to fire Flores because he is Black but not racist enough to fire his Trent Baalke/Littlefinger like GM in Chris Grier.

https://www.miamidolphins.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-grier

It seems like a repeat of the 49ers and Harbaugh situation except with the few extra steps of Ross potentially violating NFL rules and federal laws when it comes to his alleged attempts to fix games while also apparently investing in a sports gambling company.

Here's the interesting thing- I think the specific case with the Dolphins was just terrible management and a bad relationship. Similar to Harbaugh with th 49ers as you stated. But on the whole, yes I'd say there is racism in the hiring practices. I don't think that applies specifically to the Dolphins situation and from the little I know, the suit isn't stating that. I thought the finger was specifically pointed at the Giants, the Broncos, and the NFL in general. I've been discussing this elsewhere with people and there appears to be a double standard when you compare coaching tenures of many prominent former black coaches and their immediate predecessors or successors. Tony Dungy did a great interview where he talked about the timing of the interviews (during the playoffs giving you limited opportunity to prepare)- which I never liked, but this is how the system is built. He admitted that practice affects all coaches, but it disproportionately affects black coaches because you generally don't get interviewed if you aren't in the playoffs. Once we set aside our exceptional coaches/top coaches like a Belichek, Tomlin, Sean McVay (based on winning record and two Super Bowl appearances) and then just compare the field of black coaches tenures and the field of white coaches tenures, you'll see the patterns.

Originally posted by pdfortune:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Kris Richard is a big one for me, Seahawks Legion of Boom got Gus Bradley and Dan Quinn Head Coaching jobs, and then DC jobs when they failed as Head Coaches.

Not only did Richard barely get an interview, he hasn't even been able to get another DC job.

Matt Patricia has now had the exactly the same tenure as Flores and probably future job prospects.

The success level is nowhere the same, Patricia took a winning team (from a winning black coach I might add) and turned them into a dumpster fire. Flores turned a dumpster fire into a winning team.

Richard his defense went from 1 to 13 over 3 years. Defense tends to age worse than offense, and perhaps he was a victim of that instead of coaching ability. Quinn and Bradley became head coaches when they were hot. Unfortunately, Richard is trending the wrong way. He was part of bad defenses in Dallas. If he was a white guy he probably would have gotten a job after his first year as Seattles DC when they ranked #1.

I can totally see this trajectory.

Originally posted by 49ersking:
I don't know this coach's personal journey or what he faced recently, what is reality, what is perceived, so no comment there.

All I know is, if it's a business, then the owner of that business wants to make money. Hence, the owner will hire people who will get him the most money (wins in this case).

You really believe that?

The NFL is set up for teams to make money no matter how incompetent the ownership is. I'd say the only penalty for losing is attendance and merchandise sales. However that hasn't stopped certain ownerships from just horribly sucking. You look at the entire history of the NFL or let's just look at the last 30 years and you can honestly say, yes, these owners are hiring the guy's most capable of getting the team to win. You are a fan of the 49ers right? And I think we have one of the better owners in the NFL, but come on.

Originally posted by raywm3:
There just needs to be a better pipeline of minority coaches coming up. More candidates, more opportunities. You see more White coaches because they weren't as athletic and could concentrate on coaching sooner lol.

There is. Bill Walsh did a lot of work in this area. There are also plenty of coaches on staff's. I'm not going for the pipeline because that's what was said in the late 90s. Back when they would drag Ted Cottrell and Art Shell out for interviews. Remember those days? We have seen tight ends coaches (Dan Campbell), receivers coaches (Joe Judge), and defensive line coaches (Jim Tomsula) get hired. I'd say at least 1/4 of assistant coaches are black. There isn't a dearth in that regard. At the end of the day, it boils down to who gets interviewed for coordinator positions and HC positions. Add in less accomplished white coaches (assistant coaches) getting interview opportunities and being offered HC positions despite not having that strong of a resume.

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
Read through the complaint. Seems dumb.

Really? Paying to lose? Deciding on the guy you're hiring before satisfying the Rooney Rule? Not a good look dude. You can say you disagree with the rules, but this is a bad look, and even if Flores et al. doesn't win, the NFL is going to come down hard on all parties accused if there is even a sliver of evidence. And with those text messages, there is more than a sliver.

How is playing to lose racist? Its highly unprofessional but its not racist. If a white coach comes out and says he was paid to lose then what then? Deciding who you are going to hire before all the interviews are complete isn't racist either. Its just life and happens all the time.

I work for a large company. We opened a position in our department and knew someone who was the perfect fit and that's who we wanted, However HR made us go through the hiring process and gave us 5 candidates so we had to interview all 5. The person we wanted was the 1st interview and it went as expected. We knew he was our guy but we carried out the rest of the interviews bc HR told us. Those others had no shot. Is that racist or sexist? can't be too racist bc the person we opened up the position for is a minority.

The Rooney rule is designed to give minorities an opportunity. There are going to be many cases where a club already knows who they are going to hire before the interviews even take place. Heck when the Niners fired Chip Kelly after 1 year i bet Jed knew Kyle wanted to come here before he even fired Chip.

Maybe he did. I am someone who is on the hiring panel at my job and although I have in mind things I'm looking for, I keep an open mind as well. Nothing wrong with having an idea of who you want- especially if it's a really great candidate. But when you end up with some of these hires that have happened over the years and look at the numbers, you have to question the process.

Originally posted by WINiner:
See I think we should just let the owners choose who they want, interview who they want. Those truly "progressive" (hate using that term in regard to race) teams will win out in the end because they will be hiring the best from a much larger pool of candidates. IMO rules like the Rooney Rule are a show and is used by the NFL to hide/shield themselves from public scrutiny. "See we got this rule, See see?" while the same ol practices continue. I think rather than forcing a team to do something per mandate the NFL should focus on rewarding teams for providing people of color opportunities, like rewarding draft picks for having a minority hired to a HC or GM position as we benefitted from last year.

Originally posted by LB49ers:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by LB49ers:
I will say again when over 70% of your labor force is African American and you only have one African American head coach that speaks pretty loudly of what you think of them.

Why are you limiting the labor force to players? Do coaches not count too?

I'm curious what is the racial make up of all head coaches, coordinators, position coaches, assistant coaches, etc. etc.

Is it still 70%? Honest question.

If it was, ok you may have a point. If not, then it's reaching.

Coaching and playing are two different professions altogether. If you want to go down the former player route, for every Harbaugh and Rivera you have a Singletary and Dan Campbell. That's just players. Most of the legendary coaches of the game weren't former NFL players. Maybe at most college players.

One should look at the breakdown of race for college players and coaches.......I'm pretty sure that 70% will drop a bit for the players.....possibly below 50%, maybe lower. Coaches might be lower than that too.

If I were to go out on a limb, my guess is as you go from pee wee to high school to college to NFL your white players go down while your black players go up (by percentage). White coaches increase at each stop, because they didn't make it as players.

I think the issue is more complicated than we think. I had a black friend tell me yesterday "owners are comfortable with people who look like them, act like them"....

Ok assuming that's true, then maybe it's just a preference and not actual RACISM??

Racism used to be Jim Crow, back of the bus, different bathrooms, etc. Now it's anything that isn't deferential......

If I wanted to be a big shot at BET as a non person of color, do I have a right to get it if those don't want me there assuming I'm qualified?

People would probably laugh it off, but it's the exact same thing.

End of the day, unless you're that outed racist owner of the Clippers (?), you go with who really think would win. Even that guy probably would be ok with a black coach.

Whatever, LOL....

Just to answer a couple of the questions. 35-40% of assistant coaches in the NFL are African American. And 60% of college football players are AA. So again 1 AA head coach in the NFL looks suspect. With those numbers it would seem that AA are not given the same chances as White coaches. Also they owners seem to be very comfortable having them play for them just not in positions of authority

This kind of reflects my thinking. There isn't a shortage of prospective candidates. I'm not expecting a 70% talent pool. I just would think NFL teams would fully utilize the available talent pool.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by scottym:
Kaps again?Have we been cursed by this dude?The issues are real, Kap is a fake.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Uh, wow. What issues did Kaepernick fake? He took a stand (one that is still going on in sports around the world) and then the league admitted black balling him and settled a lawsuit. Yet people still think it was manufactured.

To your other point, yes, deliberately manufacturing a race issue, playing the race card is wrong. In my life I've done this once, as a 12 year old boy getting out of trouble at school, it was perfectly timed and worked to perfection, however I grew, realised it was wrong and have never done it again.

Brian Flores is not playing the race card, his resume should guarantee him another head coaching job, he's seen a situation that he feels strongly about and believes he has enough proof to what most people know happens to affect change.

Bruce Arians announced with his hires of Vance Joseph and Byron Leftwich that black coaches aren't given equal opportunity and he felt it was his responsibility to develop and mentor his staff to increase that opportunity.

We all know sham interviews take place, now he has proof.

It's fine to already have a candidate in mind, but the rules say you have to listen and consider, and the Giants clearly didn't.

Exactly my point. Kap using real world problems to deflect blame of his own inadequacies is what makes him a fake and a fraud. The fact that some people still actually believe him, just proves that P.T. Barnum was absolutely correct - there is a sucker born every minute!!

And Flores opening comment saying he knows this could cost him his coaching career, is following Kap's path very closely.

Explain this s**t. You have the nerve to call someone who risked their career, by peacefully bringing awareness to a real issue, as fake....so explain it.

This has been covered at length - and beyond. The timeline is out there and very clear. If, at this point, you still don't see it - it's because you are choosing not to. And I can't help you with that, so there is no need to go over it again. I'll just address the "risked their career" comment. Isn't it interesting, that he waited until AFTER the 49ers were considering cutting or trading him, to suddenly feel the need to protest? He was the quarterback in the SUPER BOWL...with a audience of literal MILLIONS...eh but had nothing to say then. His career was over then and he knew it - which is why HE did everything possible to sabotage every opportunity he had after that.

Wait after the 9ers considered cutting him? What in the world are you talking about?

Kap had a troubled year in 2015 with Tomsula as head coach and Baalke forcing the likes of Jordan Devey and Eric Pears starting on the oline (literally the two worse graded offensive lineman the previous season). Andrew Tiller was playing better than Devey, but for some reason Baalke wanted Devey out there..and Tiller was kept on the bench.

Kap got hurt... told the coaches and doctors... got misdiagnosed.... played with the injury... still went back to the coaches and doctors again, pointing out pain he was still feeling. Misdiagnosed again... then just didn't trust them anymore and got a second opinion, and was diagnosed with "significant" tear of his left shoulder's labrum. To which the team doctors were like ooooh yeah, he needs to get surgery.

But even in that troubled half season.. Kap threw 6TDs and 5ints. 4 of those ints came in one game. Against the Cardinals (that many love to point out). So 6Tds and 1 int besides that game.

How weird was that one game against the Cards? In the previous 5 games against the Cards he's thrown 9TDs and 1int. Kap has always been good at protecting the ball... that was a rare game where things got out of hand, which does happen to QBs.

So judging from that bad injured 2015 season... he didn't really do all that bad, taking everything into consideration. So why would he think his NFL career was close to being over? That 2016 offseason he declined a trade to the Broncos, because they wanted to reduce his guaranteed salary. Hell if the 9ers wanted to get rid of him so bad, they could have picked up the remaining 4.9mil the Broncos were holding out on for the trade to go through.

So you're telling me Kap thought his career was over in 2016? Dude was so desperate to play he bet on himself and made a deal with the front office DURING the season. And went on to throw for 16TDs and only 4Ints on a bad offensive roster.... in alittle more than half of a season.

We know how horrible the starting qb situation in the NFL is. Ain't no way he thought his career was close to being over. That is just yall looking for a reason to bash the guy... to justify him being screwed by NFL teams.

What's interesting with Kap is that he had crap around him all over that team. His top three receivers from 2016 were out of the NFL within a year or two I believe. A couple of O-lineman had a similar fate. And he had Trent Baalke supplying the talent and hiring the coaches. And yet he still had about 60% of his passes and had a 4:1 TD to INT ratio. Yet he is discussed like he's Nathan Peterman or someone. It's almost like there's a different standard he is held to or something. Similar to what happens to coaches.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 49ersking:
I don't know this coach's personal journey or what he faced recently, what is reality, what is perceived, so no comment there.

All I know is, if it's a business, then the owner of that business wants to make money. Hence, the owner will hire people who will get him the most money (wins in this case).

You really believe that?

The NFL is set up for teams to make money no matter how incompetent the ownership is. I'd say the only penalty for losing is attendance and merchandise sales. However that hasn't stopped certain ownerships from just horribly sucking. You look at the entire history of the NFL or let's just look at the last 30 years and you can honestly say, yes, these owners are hiring the guy's most capable of getting the team to win. You are a fan of the 49ers right? And I think we have one of the better owners in the NFL, but come on.

Totally agree there. This is why Flores' tanking accusation has real merit IMHO. The owners get paid handsomely win or lose. Losing don't affect the owners like it does players and coaches. Wins and losses are tied to players and coaches careers. Owners can suck a$$ for decades and they still get paid (which is why it was total BS to hear people defending the owners about blackballing Keap saying that he affected their bottom line).

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by LB49ers:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by LB49ers:
I will say again when over 70% of your labor force is African American and you only have one African American head coach that speaks pretty loudly of what you think of them.

Why are you limiting the labor force to players? Do coaches not count too?

I'm curious what is the racial make up of all head coaches, coordinators, position coaches, assistant coaches, etc. etc.

Is it still 70%? Honest question.

If it was, ok you may have a point. If not, then it's reaching.

Coaching and playing are two different professions altogether. If you want to go down the former player route, for every Harbaugh and Rivera you have a Singletary and Dan Campbell. That's just players. Most of the legendary coaches of the game weren't former NFL players. Maybe at most college players.

One should look at the breakdown of race for college players and coaches.......I'm pretty sure that 70% will drop a bit for the players.....possibly below 50%, maybe lower. Coaches might be lower than that too.

If I were to go out on a limb, my guess is as you go from pee wee to high school to college to NFL your white players go down while your black players go up (by percentage). White coaches increase at each stop, because they didn't make it as players.

I think the issue is more complicated than we think. I had a black friend tell me yesterday "owners are comfortable with people who look like them, act like them"....

Ok assuming that's true, then maybe it's just a preference and not actual RACISM??

Racism used to be Jim Crow, back of the bus, different bathrooms, etc. Now it's anything that isn't deferential......

If I wanted to be a big shot at BET as a non person of color, do I have a right to get it if those don't want me there assuming I'm qualified?

People would probably laugh it off, but it's the exact same thing.

End of the day, unless you're that outed racist owner of the Clippers (?), you go with who really think would win. Even that guy probably would be ok with a black coach.

Whatever, LOL....

Just to answer a couple of the questions. 35-40% of assistant coaches in the NFL are African American. And 60% of college football players are AA. So again 1 AA head coach in the NFL looks suspect. With those numbers it would seem that AA are not given the same chances as White coaches. Also they owners seem to be very comfortable having them play for them just not in positions of authority

This kind of reflects my thinking. There isn't a shortage of prospective candidates. I'm not expecting a 70% talent pool. I just would think NFL teams would fully utilize the available talent pool.

Big facts. This is exactly where my thinking is. All this talk about pipelines is total BS. It use to be nearly automatic that the OC's of the top team, especially SB winning teams, got HC jobs. So when you look at Eric Bieniemy and Byron Leftwich people have a hard time explaining why, at the very least, those two haven't gotten hired but for their Blackness. It seems to me that the owners are avoiding them two like the plague. How does one explain Eric Bieniemy and Byron Leftwich not getting jobs, yet the front runner for the Texans is a coach who's most recent coaching job was coaching HS QB's.

So are we to believe that AA assistants and coordinators are that bad that owners are now reduced to poaching HS coaches now? Who among us here actually believes that Black HD coaches - HS position coaches no less - will be getting calls to interview for NFL HC jobs?

So Goodell issued a statement to all of the teams stating that the "results" of their efforts for diversity "have been unacceptable". So there is the proof that this is NOT about following the proper process, and NOT about giving the best candidate the job. It is "hire minorities or else!". That is not equality, that is preferential treatment. I mean, giving draft picks and a competitive edge was a pretty big indicator before - but now he's come right out and said it.

So now every white coach that doesn't get the job, can file a lawsuit too!

The 58-page lawsuit filed five days ago by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores mentions plenty of names and examples when it comes to the racial "double standard" (as admitted by NFL executive V.P. of football operations Troy Vincent) in NFL coaching. Flores at no point mentions former Browns coach Hue Jackson.

That likely wasn't a mistake. Beyond the fact that Hue simply wasn't a very good coach is the fact that Hue has, in recent days, been all over the place, making strong accusations that he was paid to lose games and then clumsily walking them back. While it makes sense for Jackson to change his tune on cash-for-clunking if (unlike Flores) Hue actually took the money and thus committed a potential violation of federal law, Jackson has come off in recent days as far less credible than Flores. At times, Jackson has seemed not credible at all.

Multiple people in and around the sport and the industry of covering it have expressed both support for Flores and a hope that Jackson won't join the case. Jackson, in our opinion, could operate as an impediment to Flores's efforts.

Flores and his lawyers quite possibly know it. The Flores lawsuit cites Jim Caldwell, Steve Wilks, David Culley, Kris Richard, Teryl Austin, and Eric Bieniemy as victims of discrimination. Any of them would be viable candidates to join the Flores lawsuit. Jackson simply would not be.

Phoenix, to add to your post without quoting that monster, Hue's friend Mike Silver retweeted this :

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Hue Jackson suggests he was paid extra for losses as Browns head coach. https://t.co/NZJv37PwkP

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 2, 2022

Hue Jackson: I was never offered money to lose. https://t.co/Jsdx5V5rvS

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 5, 2022

There are plenty of coaches who could personally join the Brian Flores lawsuit and make it stronger. Hue Jackson is not one of them. https://t.co/ZtOe8a4mry

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 6, 2022

The 58-page lawsuit filed five days ago by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores mentions plenty of names and examples when it comes to the racial "double standard" (as admitted by NFL executive V.P. of football operations Troy Vincent) in NFL coaching. Flores at no point mentions former Browns coach Hue Jackson.

That likely wasn't a mistake. Beyond the fact that Hue simply wasn't a very good coach is the fact that Hue has, in recent days, been all over the place, making strong accusations that he was paid to lose games and then clumsily walking them back. While it makes sense for Jackson to change his tune on cash-for-clunking if (unlike Flores) Hue actually took the money and thus committed a potential violation of federal law, Jackson has come off in recent days as far less credible than Flores. At times, Jackson has seemed not credible at all.

Multiple people in and around the sport and the industry of covering it have expressed both support for Flores and a hope that Jackson won't join the case. Jackson, in our opinion, could operate as an impediment to Flores's efforts.

Flores and his lawyers quite possibly know it. The Flores lawsuit cites Jim Caldwell, Steve Wilks, David Culley, Kris Richard, Teryl Austin, and Eric Bieniemy as victims of discrimination. Any of them would be viable candidates to join the Flores lawsuit. Jackson simply would not be.

Brian Flores to Hue Jackson this morning pic.twitter.com/WCbMOFNxqM

— Cason Fikes (@casonfikes) February 2, 2022

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Hue Jackson suggests he was paid extra for losses as Browns head coach. https://t.co/NZJv37PwkP

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 2, 2022

Hue Jackson: I was never offered money to lose. https://t.co/Jsdx5V5rvS

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 5, 2022

There are plenty of coaches who could personally join the Brian Flores lawsuit and make it stronger. Hue Jackson is not one of them. https://t.co/ZtOe8a4mry

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 6, 2022

The 58-page lawsuit filed five days ago by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores mentions plenty of names and examples when it comes to the racial "double standard" (as admitted by NFL executive V.P. of football operations Troy Vincent) in NFL coaching. Flores at no point mentions former Browns coach Hue Jackson.

That likely wasn't a mistake. Beyond the fact that Hue simply wasn't a very good coach is the fact that Hue has, in recent days, been all over the place, making strong accusations that he was paid to lose games and then clumsily walking them back. While it makes sense for Jackson to change his tune on cash-for-clunking if (unlike Flores) Hue actually took the money and thus committed a potential violation of federal law, Jackson has come off in recent days as far less credible than Flores. At times, Jackson has seemed not credible at all.

Multiple people in and around the sport and the industry of covering it have expressed both support for Flores and a hope that Jackson won't join the case. Jackson, in our opinion, could operate as an impediment to Flores's efforts.

Flores and his lawyers quite possibly know it. The Flores lawsuit cites Jim Caldwell, Steve Wilks, David Culley, Kris Richard, Teryl Austin, and Eric Bieniemy as victims of discrimination. Any of them would be viable candidates to join the Flores lawsuit. Jackson simply would not be.

Brian Flores to Hue Jackson this morning pic.twitter.com/WCbMOFNxqM

— Cason Fikes (@casonfikes) February 2, 2022

Love Blue Streak

This dude just lost his shot at another NFL head coaching position. No team will touch this guy with a 50 foot pole. Great job black balling yourself and NO that's NOT a racist comment that's what its called when you put an X on yourself. Period!

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
We see it a few times actually. I went WTF with Joe Judge. I'm very skeptical about promoting position coaches to head coaching jobs and in the case of Joe Judge, he was the Patriots receivers coach when the receivers were the weakness of the Patriots. His group was so bad that I thought Tom Brady was done. Yet he was interviewed and hired. We hired Jim Tomsula. You didn't go WTF? We hired Chip Kelly after the disaster in Philly. Black coaches that finish how he did in Philly usually don't immediately walk into another job. Adam Gase's hire in New York didn't make you go WTF? Brandon Staley's didn't make you do that? 6 years ago he was coaching at a Division 3 school I believe and had one year as a defensive coordinator on a defense with Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey. Dan Campbell didn't make you go WTF? A TE coach? Do you think Jon Embree, who had the same title as Campbell TE Coach/Asst. HC would get an interview? And Embree had an All-Pro TE come up under him. Josh McDaniels getting opportunity number 3? BTW, I did go WTF on David Culley. I thought he should've never been hired, but then when I saw some progress with Davis Mills, as well as some nice victories where the team played above the talent level, my position changed to well let's see what happens if they give him some players.
Coaching hiring is not the crap shoot that people make it out to be. Look at the bolded. Does the black coach have to be a can't miss? There are very few can't miss guys. I can only think of two off the top of my head that I would apply that label to. The suggestion you immediately made afterwards doesn't tend to happen. What we have seen is a lot of D and F hires (see my previous paragraph) over B and C black candidates.

I honestly don't use Eric Bienemy as an example because I personally wouldn't hire him. But the precedent is there wth his predecessors (Matt Nagy and Doug Pederson) who got jobs despite not calling plays. Now I get it, Nagy and Pederson work with QBs, so there's that. But based on that, Pep Hamilton (who has a GREAT track record) and Byron Leftwich should be in there already. These invisible rules people like to apply keep shifting to justify what's going on.

Here's the interesting thing- I think the specific case with the Dolphins was just terrible management and a bad relationship. Similar to Harbaugh with th 49ers as you stated. But on the whole, yes I'd say there is racism in the hiring practices. I don't think that applies specifically to the Dolphins situation and from the little I know, the suit isn't stating that. I thought the finger was specifically pointed at the Giants, the Broncos, and the NFL in general. I've been discussing this elsewhere with people and there appears to be a double standard when you compare coaching tenures of many prominent former black coaches and their immediate predecessors or successors. Tony Dungy did a great interview where he talked about the timing of the interviews (during the playoffs giving you limited opportunity to prepare)- which I never liked, but this is how the system is built. He admitted that practice affects all coaches, but it disproportionately affects black coaches because you generally don't get interviewed if you aren't in the playoffs. Once we set aside our exceptional coaches/top coaches like a Belichek, Tomlin, Sean McVay (based on winning record and two Super Bowl appearances) and then just compare the field of black coaches tenures and the field of white coaches tenures, you'll see the patterns.

I can totally see this trajectory.

People here on the Zone shook thier heads at both the Tomsula AND Kelly hires...particularly Tomsula. Some said " give him a chance the players and ownership LOVE him ". We all saw how THAT turned out.🙄

Originally posted by NinerJeff:
This dude just lost his shot at another NFL head coaching position. No team will touch this guy with a 50 foot pole. Great job black balling yourself and NO that's NOT a racist comment that's what its called when you put an X on yourself. Period!

He knew what the repercussions might be. He took the chance because something was more important to him than him maybe having a job down the road. You should tip your cap and just leave it at that....or if you think there is something wrong with the league, just hope the best for him.

People here on the Zone shook thier heads at both the Tomsula AND Kelly hires...particularly Tomsula. Some said " give him a chance the players and ownership LOVE him ". We all saw how THAT turned out.🙄

Yeah I remember. Thank God we still have access to those threads. I think some today would be surprised who was saying stuff like that...lol.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
I agree and from what I know there's nothing stopping a black person from buying a team. I could be wrong on that though.

The 49ers were went from the DeBartolos to the Yorks,...family ties.

Who do you think will be the next owner of the Cowboys?

And even getting away from the generational pass downs, if this Ross guy has to ever sell the team, he's already contractually obligated to give a certain person 1st dibs at buying.

Things like these (just off the top of my head) clearly reduce the chance that outsiders potentially have at making a legitimate run at ownership.