Brian Flores files discrimination lawsuit against Giants, Dolphins and the NFL.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by UnbanDrewK:

Originally posted by miked1978:
i guess teams would be smart to interview minorities first and then the white guy.

If team A loves a coaching prospect and that guy is white are they racist at that point? They interview him first and it goes as expected are they racist then? At what point are they racists?

And just how racist is the Miami owner who hired you to be head coach 3 years ago?

Despite being 58% of the United States population, non-Hispanic Whites account for just 2 running back or cornerback roster spots in the NFL.

With respect to racial equity, I demand affirmative action a la the Rooney Rule for teams intent on adding running backs or corners to their team. They must conduct a token tryout for a White player before signing or drafting a CB or RB.

Otherwise they are to be cancelled for being rayciss

You're not thinking hard enough (which is rather common with particular groups you may or may not belong to).

First, I'll go with the assumption that Black athletes have a slight advantage on land sports (and for the same reasons that advantage Black people in land sports, such as center of mass location, White athletes would have advantages in sports like swimming). There is some weak anecdotal evidence regarding this, but it's not set in stone afaik. Still, let's follow the logic if it's true.

Assuming that's true, Black athletes will be more common in athletically demanding positions such as running back due to physical merit, which is brought about by natural advantages. What does that do to the pool of coaches? It means a much greater percentage of the pool of coaches will be White — White athletes whose NFL dreams failed to come to fruition (for example, perhaps guys like Kyle Shanahan, who was a WR in college). And thus, since the POOL ITSELF is mostly White, the statistics favor more White coaches.

But this isn't because of anything thing Black coaches lack, other than numbers themselves.

So, while ATHLETES at certain positions being mostly Black is DUE TO MERIT, it is NOT the case that few coaches being Black is due to a lack of ability.
(and if you're so far gone you want to argue that White people evolved to be smarter, allow me to point out that that is COMPLETELY lDIOTIC due to the fact that humans are social creatures, which means any geniuses in a group with intellectual advantages will be no more likely to breed than other members of the group. Whatever genius invention or technique he finds, the rest of the group will benefit from it. Once humans developed complex language, LOOKING HOT became FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more important than being smart in terms of selective advantages over other members of the group)

.......

Second, the other issue is that people are more likely to hire others they know, or feel more comfortable around. Now, I'll just ignore implicit bias for this, and simply stick to nepotism. Even you cannot deny that coaching candidates head coaches or owners KNOW are more likely to get serious consideration than coaching candidates they don't. That's an obvious fact. This is NOT inherently related to race, as is shown by Kyle Shanahan two years in a row giving coaches that are "free draft pick" quality in terms of their racial heritage. And he just hired Anthony Lynn (who Kyle knew as a kid on the Denver Broncos), who is going to be a head coach again, not to mention Demeco Ryans. WHO YOU KNOW matters.

And which head coach candidates do the NFL owners, and the White head coaches know? Mostly White head coaches. There are exceptions, but again, in this case the pool of coaching candidates with the advantage of knowing the right people are mostly White.

........

So, we have two REAL situations where explicit or even implicit racism may not play big roles, but the racial disparity still occurs, and it has NOTHING to do with the qualifications of the candidates themselves.

THAT is why the NFL has tried to utilize the Rooney Rule. There are potentially better ideas out there, and I'm sure the NFL is looking at them.

This is a pretty excellent breakdown.

It is an excellent breakdown and one I keep trying to push myself for some time.

The player breakdown is not as important as the coach breakdown by percentage.

And also, unlike the athletic part which can be a clearer undisputable meritocracy, it's harder to truly gauge how good a coach will be until they've done it (and probably in multiple spots too). In this scenario, familiarity and reputation are a big help, with coaching trees (i.e. Shanahan, McVay) also a big driving factor for the less proven guys.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
You're not thinking hard enough (which is rather common with particular groups you may or may not belong to).

First, I'll go with the assumption that Black athletes have a slight advantage on land sports (and for the same reasons that advantage Black people in land sports, such as center of mass location, White athletes would have advantages in sports like swimming). There is some weak anecdotal evidence regarding this, but it's not set in stone afaik. Still, let's follow the logic if it's true.

Assuming that's true, Black athletes will be more common in athletically demanding positions such as running back due to physical merit, which is brought about by natural advantages. What does that do to the pool of coaches? It means a much greater percentage of the pool of coaches will be White — White athletes whose NFL dreams failed to come to fruition (for example, perhaps guys like Kyle Shanahan, who was a WR in college). And thus, since the POOL ITSELF is mostly White, the statistics favor more White coaches.

But this isn't because of anything thing Black coaches lack, other than numbers themselves.

So, while ATHLETES at certain positions being mostly Black is DUE TO MERIT, it is NOT the case that few coaches being Black is due to a lack of ability.
(and if you're so far gone you want to argue that White people evolved to be smarter, allow me to point out that that is COMPLETELY lDIOTIC due to the fact that humans are social creatures, which means any geniuses in a group with intellectual advantages will be no more likely to breed than other members of the group. Whatever genius invention or technique he finds, the rest of the group will benefit from it. Once humans developed complex language, LOOKING HOT became FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more important than being smart in terms of selective advantages over other members of the group)

.......

Second, the other issue is that people are more likely to hire others they know, or feel more comfortable around. Now, I'll just ignore implicit bias for this, and simply stick to nepotism. Even you cannot deny that coaching candidates head coaches or owners KNOW are more likely to get serious consideration than coaching candidates they don't. That's an obvious fact. This is NOT inherently related to race, as is shown by Kyle Shanahan two years in a row giving coaches that are "free draft pick" quality in terms of their racial heritage. And he just hired Anthony Lynn (who Kyle knew as a kid on the Denver Broncos), who is going to be a head coach again, not to mention Demeco Ryans. WHO YOU KNOW matters.

And which head coach candidates do the NFL owners, and the White head coaches know? Mostly White head coaches. There are exceptions, but again, in this case the pool of coaching candidates with the advantage of knowing the right people are mostly White.

........

So, we have two REAL situations where explicit or even implicit racism may not play big roles, but the racial disparity still occurs, and it has NOTHING to do with the qualifications of the candidates themselves.

THAT is why the NFL has tried to utilize the Rooney Rule. There are potentially better ideas out there, and I'm sure the NFL is looking at them.

I've stepped away from this thread for a while, but this is one of the best posts I've read. Great work

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/what-mike-mularkey-said-about-the-titans-and-the-rooney-rule-should-worry-the-nfl-032339002.html

Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/what-mike-mularkey-said-about-the-titans-and-the-rooney-rule-should-worry-the-nfl-032339002.html

Everyone knows it happens, but it's very interesting to hear it from someone who was hired.

Not sure why he feels guilt though, wasn't his fault.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by UnbanDrewK:

Originally posted by miked1978:
i guess teams would be smart to interview minorities first and then the white guy.

If team A loves a coaching prospect and that guy is white are they racist at that point? They interview him first and it goes as expected are they racist then? At what point are they racists?

And just how racist is the Miami owner who hired you to be head coach 3 years ago?

Despite being 58% of the United States population, non-Hispanic Whites account for just 2 running back or cornerback roster spots in the NFL.

With respect to racial equity, I demand affirmative action a la the Rooney Rule for teams intent on adding running backs or corners to their team. They must conduct a token tryout for a White player before signing or drafting a CB or RB.

Otherwise they are to be cancelled for being rayciss

You're not thinking hard enough (which is rather common with particular groups you may or may not belong to).

First, I'll go with the assumption that Black athletes have a slight advantage on land sports (and for the same reasons that advantage Black people in land sports, such as center of mass location, White athletes would have advantages in sports like swimming). There is some weak anecdotal evidence regarding this, but it's not set in stone afaik. Still, let's follow the logic if it's true.

Assuming that's true, Black athletes will be more common in athletically demanding positions such as running back due to physical merit, which is brought about by natural advantages. What does that do to the pool of coaches? It means a much greater percentage of the pool of coaches will be White — White athletes whose NFL dreams failed to come to fruition (for example, perhaps guys like Kyle Shanahan, who was a WR in college). And thus, since the POOL ITSELF is mostly White, the statistics favor more White coaches.

But this isn't because of anything thing Black coaches lack, other than numbers themselves.

So, while ATHLETES at certain positions being mostly Black is DUE TO MERIT, it is NOT the case that few coaches being Black is due to a lack of ability.
(and if you're so far gone you want to argue that White people evolved to be smarter, allow me to point out that that is COMPLETELY lDIOTIC due to the fact that humans are social creatures, which means any geniuses in a group with intellectual advantages will be no more likely to breed than other members of the group. Whatever genius invention or technique he finds, the rest of the group will benefit from it. Once humans developed complex language, LOOKING HOT became FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more important than being smart in terms of selective advantages over other members of the group)

.......

Second, the other issue is that people are more likely to hire others they know, or feel more comfortable around. Now, I'll just ignore implicit bias for this, and simply stick to nepotism. Even you cannot deny that coaching candidates head coaches or owners KNOW are more likely to get serious consideration than coaching candidates they don't. That's an obvious fact. This is NOT inherently related to race, as is shown by Kyle Shanahan two years in a row giving coaches that are "free draft pick" quality in terms of their racial heritage. And he just hired Anthony Lynn (who Kyle knew as a kid on the Denver Broncos), who is going to be a head coach again, not to mention Demeco Ryans. WHO YOU KNOW matters.

And which head coach candidates do the NFL owners, and the White head coaches know? Mostly White head coaches. There are exceptions, but again, in this case the pool of coaching candidates with the advantage of knowing the right people are mostly White.

........

So, we have two REAL situations where explicit or even implicit racism may not play big roles, but the racial disparity still occurs, and it has NOTHING to do with the qualifications of the candidates themselves.

THAT is why the NFL has tried to utilize the Rooney Rule. There are potentially better ideas out there, and I'm sure the NFL is looking at them.

This is a pretty excellent breakdown.

Great breakdown indeed.

I've pointed out in the past that blacks being the better athletes hurts them in the coaching department.

Maybe if coaching is important they can give up coveted CB/WR spots to white players.

End of the day, there's no systemic racism in coaching. The percentages favor whites, and if preference is given to familiarity, you can't knock that either. I mean, are there forced Caucasian hires at BET just to fulfill quotas? Should there be?

The implication here is that blacks are not wanted as head coaches which is b******t.

And if that's not the implication, and if a forced "equality" is what's really desired, that's BS too. The idea that we need more black coaches for no other reason than we just want to see more of them exceed, is BS. We're not in a Jackie Robinson scenario anymore in sports, so if merit based is the way to go with players, it should be with coaches.

Jordan Peterson covers this idea very well with gender equality related issues, and the same would apply for race. If the pools from which to choose from are substantially smaller, trying to equalize that ratio in your workforce will by default make your workforce worse.

Engineering is like 80% male in schools, and maybe slightly less that that in the workforce. If you tried to make a certain engineering company closer to 50/50, then talent wise it will not be as good unless you made a really concerted effort to get the best women in the industry (which is unrealistic).

Go to nursing, which is substantially women in the scholastic level, try to make it 50/50 with more men, and the quality of nursing will go down.

Just how it is. Male/female, white/black/asian/latino/etc.

Wow

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by UnbanDrewK:

Originally posted by miked1978:
i guess teams would be smart to interview minorities first and then the white guy.

If team A loves a coaching prospect and that guy is white are they racist at that point? They interview him first and it goes as expected are they racist then? At what point are they racists?

And just how racist is the Miami owner who hired you to be head coach 3 years ago?

Despite being 58% of the United States population, non-Hispanic Whites account for just 2 running back or cornerback roster spots in the NFL.

With respect to racial equity, I demand affirmative action a la the Rooney Rule for teams intent on adding running backs or corners to their team. They must conduct a token tryout for a White player before signing or drafting a CB or RB.

Otherwise they are to be cancelled for being rayciss

You're not thinking hard enough (which is rather common with particular groups you may or may not belong to).

First, I'll go with the assumption that Black athletes have a slight advantage on land sports (and for the same reasons that advantage Black people in land sports, such as center of mass location, White athletes would have advantages in sports like swimming). There is some weak anecdotal evidence regarding this, but it's not set in stone afaik. Still, let's follow the logic if it's true.

Assuming that's true, Black athletes will be more common in athletically demanding positions such as running back due to physical merit, which is brought about by natural advantages. What does that do to the pool of coaches? It means a much greater percentage of the pool of coaches will be White — White athletes whose NFL dreams failed to come to fruition (for example, perhaps guys like Kyle Shanahan, who was a WR in college). And thus, since the POOL ITSELF is mostly White, the statistics favor more White coaches.

But this isn't because of anything thing Black coaches lack, other than numbers themselves.

So, while ATHLETES at certain positions being mostly Black is DUE TO MERIT, it is NOT the case that few coaches being Black is due to a lack of ability.
(and if you're so far gone you want to argue that White people evolved to be smarter, allow me to point out that that is COMPLETELY lDIOTIC due to the fact that humans are social creatures, which means any geniuses in a group with intellectual advantages will be no more likely to breed than other members of the group. Whatever genius invention or technique he finds, the rest of the group will benefit from it. Once humans developed complex language, LOOKING HOT became FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more important than being smart in terms of selective advantages over other members of the group)

.......

Second, the other issue is that people are more likely to hire others they know, or feel more comfortable around. Now, I'll just ignore implicit bias for this, and simply stick to nepotism. Even you cannot deny that coaching candidates head coaches or owners KNOW are more likely to get serious consideration than coaching candidates they don't. That's an obvious fact. This is NOT inherently related to race, as is shown by Kyle Shanahan two years in a row giving coaches that are "free draft pick" quality in terms of their racial heritage. And he just hired Anthony Lynn (who Kyle knew as a kid on the Denver Broncos), who is going to be a head coach again, not to mention Demeco Ryans. WHO YOU KNOW matters.

And which head coach candidates do the NFL owners, and the White head coaches know? Mostly White head coaches. There are exceptions, but again, in this case the pool of coaching candidates with the advantage of knowing the right people are mostly White.

........

So, we have two REAL situations where explicit or even implicit racism may not play big roles, but the racial disparity still occurs, and it has NOTHING to do with the qualifications of the candidates themselves.

THAT is why the NFL has tried to utilize the Rooney Rule. There are potentially better ideas out there, and I'm sure the NFL is looking at them.

This is a pretty excellent breakdown.

Great breakdown indeed.

I've pointed out in the past that blacks being the better athletes hurts them in the coaching department.

Maybe if coaching is important they can give up coveted CB/WR spots to white players.

End of the day, there's no systemic racism in coaching. The percentages favor whites, and if preference is given to familiarity, you can't knock that either. I mean, are there forced Caucasian hires at BET just to fulfill quotas? Should there be?

The implication here is that blacks are not wanted as head coaches which is b******t.

And if that's not the implication, and if a forced "equality" is what's really desired, that's BS too. The idea that we need more black coaches for no other reason than we just want to see more of them exceed, is BS. We're not in a Jackie Robinson scenario anymore in sports, so if merit based is the way to go with players, it should be with coaches.

Jordan Peterson covers this idea very well with gender equality related issues, and the same would apply for race. If the pools from which to choose from are substantially smaller, trying to equalize that ratio in your workforce will by default make your workforce worse.

Engineering is like 80% male in schools, and maybe slightly less that that in the workforce. If you tried to make a certain engineering company closer to 50/50, then talent wise it will not be as good unless you made a really concerted effort to get the best women in the industry (which is unrealistic).

Go to nursing, which is substantially women in the scholastic level, try to make it 50/50 with more men, and the quality of nursing will go down.

Just how it is. Male/female, white/black/asian/latino/etc.

The implication here is that all the white hires are qualified, competent, and merit. As a 49ers fan in the last 10 years....well.

It's not just how it is.

There's a fair amount of black assistants in the NFL, the majority of whom did not have shining careers in the NFL. More are going to be like Anthony Lynn as opposed to....honestly I can't even think of a current black coach who had a great career. Byron Leftwich may be the best of the bunch.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/what-mike-mularkey-said-about-the-titans-and-the-rooney-rule-should-worry-the-nfl-032339002.html

Everyone knows it happens, but it's very interesting to hear it from someone who was hired.

Not sure why he feels guilt though, wasn't his fault.

Maybe because he stands in front of the team each day and talks about doing whats right even when nobody is looking? Also, if he benefited from it he is a part of the problem, right? I like the fact that he recognized his part in it.

Hue Jackson: I was paid to tank!

NFL: That sounds really serious, we're going to get independent investigators to look at the facts of the situation, would you like to speak with them?

Hue Jackson: Damn why are you bringing up old s**t, lets just move on.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Hue Jackson: I was paid to tank!

NFL: That sounds really serious, we're going to get independent investigators to look at the facts of the situation, would you like to speak with them?

Hue Jackson: Damn why are you bringing up old s**t, lets just move on.

The independent review by Mary Jo White and the Debevoise law firm into allegations by former Browns' coach Hue Jackson has concluded, per source. Allegations could not be substantiated.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) May 2, 2022

Jackson failed to meet with investigators after agreeing to but a review of thousands of pages of documents "determined none of the allegations could be substantiated" after a 60-day investigation: https://t.co/trSCJQ9dSD

— Jared Mueller (@JaredKMueller) May 2, 2022

Can't stand the guy and I actually wanted him to be our HC (when we hired Chip Kelly). We dodged a bullet. Just a total ham.