Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
That's roughly fair. But he wins better than #12 overall. Even #12 overall is much better than he is thought of here on the WZ. He's definitely better than 20 out of 32 QB'S when healthy. Probably a little better than that even. 2 NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl in 3 years is outstanding. He's not anywhere near as bad as he's portrayed here.
Yeah, he probably wins better than 12th overall, but then again, QBs aren't the only thing that goes into winning. He's also been on a really good team.
In fact, that's the biggest issue with this metric, is that team contribution leaks in. You can see that by the Stafford 2020 comparison. In one season in this metric he went from just under Jimmy to just under Brady in 2021 (it should be noted that Stafford's 2020 rating still indicates a winning QB, given that the QBs around that number had winning records, so he was still playing winning football, but just on a terrible team). The degree to which a good team helps a QB, by the way, goes beyond simple passing stats. For example, QB on a good team doesn't have to take as many chances.
Fortunately, since I used Excel for this, I can very easily strictly look at things in which the QB has 99% control over (simply rushing and passing stats, all weighted by win correlation).
When I do that, Josh Allen bulldozes to the top, Rodgers jumps to 2nd, Russell Wilson skyrockets—prancing along the way—to number 5, Murray leaps to 7, Brady falls to 8, and Jimmy falls to 15th. Also, Zach Wilson is no longer the worst QB. If I include all pass stats, all rush stats, on target passing, sacks and fumbles, Jimmy remains at 15. He doesn't jump back up to 12 unless I use 1D%. And that does depend on the QB, but a first down pass is a first down pass whether it's a 30 yard bomb or a screen pass.
And therein lies the biggest weakness in this metric as it is right now: the most important stat there is doesn't distinguish between who does the work. That's why I've been contemplating removing it, unless I can get a completed air yards version of it. I've been trying to think of a way to tie CAY to it.
Maybe I'll do something like yards per attempt, but make on target passes the attempts. "Completed Air Yards Per On Target Pass." However, this isn't good enough, because (1) it could just mean that WHEN someone is on target, they get lots of yards, and (2) it has a weak correlation with winning (which makes sense given (1)). But, perhaps what I can do is multiply that number by first downs per pass attempt. The units would be weird: [Y][1ST]/([ATT][PASS PLAY]). But, I can fix that by using first downs per pass rather than first downs per pass attempt (which makes sense, because I'm already taking sacks into account directly). So it would be (Completed Air Yards per On Target Pass) * (First Downs per Pass Attempt). This actually correlates about as much as CAY, so it's small, but not weak.
And IF I do that, and scale/translate it so that the top rating is again about 112 (which means 34 and 120 instead of 30 and 120, because the above stat is weaker than 1D%—this scaling adjustment raises the top score by 0.98, so it's basically the same), we get Jimmy as ranking as still ranking 12, but his rating drops about 1.94 points. The mean drops by 1.73, so Jimmy does actually get a tiny bit worse if we're more focused on HIS contributions to 1D% (on average) than just the raw 1D% numbers.
This is, admittedly, a band aid to the problem, but I think (CAT/OnTgt)*(1D/ATT) is a better barometer for QB performance than 1D% alone. And to me, that's just a stronger argument that Jimmy is about the 12th best QB.
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ONE ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION: I'm taking into account first down passing, but not first down rushing. I think I'll add that on my next modification. Blocking certainly matters for rushing, but it's harder to delete that out, so I'll probably just go with Rushing 1D%. Or, perhaps I'll try to incorporate something using rushing attempts per broken tackle into it (Att/Br. Lower is better) and yards after contact (RYAC. Higher is better.). Might end up redoing the rushing contribution entirely, focusing on 1D, RYAC, Att/Br (or maybe, Br/Att, in which case higher would be better), and rushing TDs.