Justin Fields and his Steelers

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd have to think about it some more but I'd probably trade fields and draft Caleb Williams. I think he's more talented as a passer than fields. I'd have to watch more film on him because idk how good he is with progressions and all that but I don't view fields as a great passer and idk if he ever will be. He reminds me a lot of hurts - if you have a ton of talent around him, simple system, and run a lot - he can be successful but idk if you'll ever have a dynamic precise passing game with hurts or fields.

Caleb I can say I may have not caught him at his best, plus there were high expectations going into viewing him, I wasn't impressed. I watched the USC Oregon game, and he wasn't the best QB on the field that day. It's like Penix, I don't watch much of any of Penix, then in the NC I did watch, and he was awful. I'll get more a feel for these guys as we get closer to the draft.

I'd stay far away from Caleb Williams, dude is an attention whore and what seems to also be overemotional this season. Hard pass.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I don't think Fields will ever be a good NFL QB. His accuracy is among the worst in the league. He throws too many INTs and takes off and runs too quickly. He may have a better career as a jack of all trades player. Move him to H back and let him run with the option of occasionally passing. Let him catch passes (I'm assuming he can). Hines Ward converted from QB to receiver and sometimes RB and was very effective.

Fields can put the ball on a dime and does it often, the problem is that he seems to struggle to see the whole field and will too often lock on to a receiver and try to stay with them too long, thus leading to a bunch of sacks or late throws.

I do think the Bears should stick with him unless they are absolutely convinced that Williams or Maye can have a Stroud or Burrow level impact. Trade down a few spots and add more picks, draft Marvin Harrison Jr and spend the rest of the draft investing into their defense and OL. Get someone like Greg Roman that will build a dominant running offense and most effectively utilize Fields's legs while having big play receivers to throw to down the field. Build a monstrous defense that keeps you in the game consistently.

Williams is considered the most talented QB in this draft by most analysts. You can't judge any QB by one or two games that you may have seen. That's like saying Brock sucks based on the Ravens game. Williams has all the tools but like any QB coming into the NFL there is a lot to learn. Staying away from Williams in favor of who? Fields certainly isn't the answer. Name any QB in this draft that had a great year with no bad games and is a sure fire star in the NFL. There rarely are guys like that. Williams had about the same type of year he did in his Heisman winning season and he did it without great receivers.

Chicago hasn't had a star QB since the 1940s. They can't afford to pass on the guy that's considered the best in this class. They'll still have another 1st rounder, (their own) plus whatever they can get for Fields.

If im the Bears GM I'm taking Williams and trading Fields to the AFC. Definitely not to the Seahawks.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I don't think Fields will ever be a good NFL QB. His accuracy is among the worst in the league. He throws too many INTs and takes off and runs too quickly. He may have a better career as a jack of all trades player. Move him to H back and let him run with the option of occasionally passing. Let him catch passes (I'm assuming he can). Hines Ward converted from QB to receiver and sometimes RB and was very effective.

Fields can put the ball on a dime and does it often, the problem is that he seems to struggle to see the whole field and will too often lock on to a receiver and try to stay with them too long, thus leading to a bunch of sacks or late throws.

I do think the Bears should stick with him unless they are absolutely convinced that Williams or Maye can have a Stroud or Burrow level impact. Trade down a few spots and add more picks, draft Marvin Harrison Jr and spend the rest of the draft investing into their defense and OL. Get someone like Greg Roman that will build a dominant running offense and most effectively utilize Fields's legs while having big play receivers to throw to down the field. Build a monstrous defense that keeps you in the game consistently.

Where do you get the idea that Fields can put the ball on a dime and does so often? After 3 seasons he has a career completion % of 60.3. That's near the bottom of the league for starters. Accuracy is his biggest issue and he hasn't improved much from his rookie season . He's only improved from 59.9% to 61.4%. His passer rating in an era of bloated stats is a horrible 86.

Fields is good football player but not a good QB.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Where do you get the idea that Fields can put the ball on a dime and does so often? After 3 seasons he has a career completion % of 60.3. That's near the bottom of the league for starters. Accuracy is his biggest issue and he hasn't improved much from his rookie season . He'sonly gonefrom59.9% to 61.4%. His passer rting in an era of bloated stats is a horrible 86.

Fields is good football player but not a good QB.

I don't see a position change in Fields future, so if he's not a good QB, he's got problems. As we look back, the 2021 QB class looks worse and worse by the day. I suspect Lawrence had a lot of injuries this year, and will bounce back next year.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Williams is considered the most talented QB in this draft by most analysts. You can't judge any QB by one or two games that you may have seen. That's like saying Brock sucks based on the Ravens game. Williams has all the tools but like any QB coming into the NFL there is a lot to learn. Staying away from Williams in favor of who? Fields certainly isn't the answer. Name any QB in this draft that had a great year with no bad games and is a sure fire star in the NFL. There rarely are guys like that. Williams had about the same type of year he did in his Heisman winning season and he did it without great receivers.

Chicago hasn't had a star QB since the 1940s. They can't afford to pass on the guy that's considered the best in this class. They'll still have another 1st rounder, (their own) plus whatever they can get for Fields.

We'll see how draft season goes, typically from Jan to April, things move around, as pro days and combine, and NFL gets to meet with these guys. I don't think spending draft capital, in and of itself, is the solution at QB. CHI did that with Mitch at 2 overall, and Fields at 11. NYJ has done it for like 40 years, with top pick QB after top pick QB. If one looks at DET, they were a doormat for decades, Campbell established culture, they learned how to compete and win, they invested in OL, DL, skill guys like LaPorta, Gibbs, and now they are a winning franchise. They did it with no QB investment in the draft. Same with Kyle in SF. So those are models I look toward.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd have to think about it some more but I'd probably trade fields and draft Caleb Williams. I think he's more talented as a passer than fields. I'd have to watch more film on him because idk how good he is with progressions and all that but I don't view fields as a great passer and idk if he ever will be. He reminds me a lot of hurts - if you have a ton of talent around him, simple system, and run a lot - he can be successful but idk if you'll ever have a dynamic precise passing game with hurts or fields.

Accuracy can be learned. Problem I see with Fields is he doesn't anticipate or see the field well. Much like with Hurts (and why Russ was never a truly elite QB despite the media yearly overhype) it limits what the teams offense can ultimately do. Kap also had the same issue. Winning on broken plays is a tough road to travel offensively. Better have an elite run game to supplement.

This is just my opinion, but I think if you need to learn accuracy at this level - it'll always be a problem. It's one of the reasons I really liked Brock immediately, he's super accurate. You can cover up accuracy (like Geno smith - he isn't inaccurate but I don't think he's as accurate as his stats suggest) with play calling but that doesn't mean you can consistently be accurate on all the throws.

i think there is so much to learn and work on at this level that if accuracy is an issue, especially a serious issue, it'll always be. You don't really get 4-5 years to work that kink out, you get like 1-2 at most.

to me, if a prospect isn't accurate coming into the league - I really don't want to touch him. It's probably the thing about Lance that bothered me the most.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd have to think about it some more but I'd probably trade fields and draft Caleb Williams. I think he's more talented as a passer than fields. I'd have to watch more film on him because idk how good he is with progressions and all that but I don't view fields as a great passer and idk if he ever will be. He reminds me a lot of hurts - if you have a ton of talent around him, simple system, and run a lot - he can be successful but idk if you'll ever have a dynamic precise passing game with hurts or fields.

Accuracy can be learned. Problem I see with Fields is he doesn't anticipate or see the field well. Much like with Hurts (and why Russ was never a truly elite QB despite the media yearly overhype) it limits what the teams offense can ultimately do. Kap also had the same issue. Winning on broken plays is a tough road to travel offensively. Better have an elite run game to supplement.

This is just my opinion, but I think if you need to learn accuracy at this level - it'll always be a problem. It's one of the reasons I really liked Brock immediately, he's super accurate. You can cover up accuracy (like Geno smith - he isn't inaccurate but I don't think he's as accurate as his stats suggest) with play calling but that doesn't mean you can consistently be accurate on all the throws.

i think there is so much to learn and work on at this level that if accuracy is an issue, especially a serious issue, it'll always be. You don't really get 4-5 years to work that kink out, you get like 1-2 at most.

to me, if a prospect isn't accurate coming into the league - I really don't want to touch him. It's probably the thing about Lance that bothered me the most.

It's more than just accuracy. He has thrown 40 TD passes and run for 14 in his 3 year career. In that same time he's thrown 30 INTs and lost 25 fumbles. That's 54 TDs vs 55 turnovers. Not good. With his size and speed I think he could a really dangerous H back like Delaney Walker but even better. I don't know what they could get in a trade so making the position switch could be an option. He could also be the backup QB.

Williams may or may not become a star but if he does and Chicago passes on him their fans will never let them forget it. Our fans still complain that we didn't draft Mahomes and he wasn't even considered a great prospect.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
It's more than just accuracy. He has thrown 40 TD passes and run for 14 in his 3 year career. In that same time he's thrown 30 INTs and lost 25 fumbles. That's 54 TDs vs 55 turnovers. Not good. With his size and speed I think he could a really dangerous H back like Delaney Walker but even better. I don't know what they could get in a trade so making the position switch could be an option. He could also be the backup QB.

Williams may or may not become a star but if he does and Chicago passes on him their fans will never let them forget it. Our fans still complain that we didn't draft Mahomes and he wasn't even considered a great prospect.

To me, that's the challenge of the draft. Famously KS and JL, who know more football than just about anyone on the planet, drafted Lance. Walsh, took Carmazzi and left Brady out there. The fail rate is very high. In the draft you speak of, as you mention, Mahomes wasn't thought to be the top prospect. Trubisky was, and he was QB1 to you guessed it, the Bears. So taking the QB early and failing over and over is how CHI got into where they are now.

Originally posted by tankle104:
This is just my opinion, but I think if you need to learn accuracy at this level - it'll always be a problem. It's one of the reasons I really liked Brock immediately, he's super accurate. You can cover up accuracy (like Geno smith - he isn't inaccurate but I don't think he's as accurate as his stats suggest) with play calling but that doesn't mean you can consistently be accurate on all the throws.

i think there is so much to learn and work on at this level that if accuracy is an issue, especially a serious issue, it'll always be. You don't really get 4-5 years to work that kink out, you get like 1-2 at most.

to me, if a prospect isn't accurate coming into the league - I really don't want to touch him. It's probably the thing about Lance that bothered me the most.

Steve Young learned to be more accurate. So did Drew Brees. So much of that is mechanical.

What you need to have is the ability to throw with anticipation and an ability to see the field. Once a QB has 30 starts or so you know if that is in there or not. I don't think it's in there for Justin.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Steve Young learned to be more accurate. So did Drew Brees. So much of that is mechanical.

What you need to have is the ability to throw with anticipation and an ability to see the field. Once a QB has 30 starts or so you know if that is in there or not. I don't think it's in there for Justin.

Justin definitely has mechanical and footwork issues as well. He's a good deep ball thrower I think. Can rear back and hit a player in space with no real issue. There is absolutely no precision in his passing though. Ball placement is all over the place.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Justin definitely has mechanical and footwork issues as well. He's a good deep ball thrower I think. Can rear back and hit a player in space with no real issue. There is absolutely no precision in his passing though. Ball placement is all over the place.

Wasn't suggesting he doesn't also have mechanical issues. But those can be fixed IMO with proper training.

Other part not so much.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Wasn't suggesting he doesn't also have mechanical issues. But those can be fixed IMO with proper training.

Other part not so much.

I was just adding on. I think it could be fixed as well, but doubt it happens at this point.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I was just adding on. I think it could be fixed as well, but doubt it happens at this point.

Has to want it. Gonna be up to him.