Prayers for Damar Hamlin

Originally posted by bsyde82:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I can't imagine what life is like for people who actually think this is vaccine related.

It's actually nice to critically think. To dismiss out of hand the possibility of any relation to the vaccine is just pure ignorance. You all acting like this happens all the time in the NFL when it has literally never happened. It could be a one in a billion chance hit, or it could be heart complications that made him more vulnerable to this super rare event. What am I saying here that is so unreasonable? I don't know what happened, like all of you, but the facts that we do know begs questions.

You want to put all vax-skeptical people in the same boat, that's fine. But I don't speak for any others, and opinions range broadly. There should be room for discussion without instantly accusing people of being Q anon or whatever.

i mean, the vaccine has had complications for me and other people. it's possible.

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Extremely rare events should happen extremely rarely.

this is more than extremely rare though, literally has never happened in the NFL. The one guy who died of a heart attack in the 70s had a clogged artery and an undiagnosed serious heart condition, and that was before the era of in-depth testing to detect such issues.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
The study basically said mild / moderate force can trigger these events .

and think about how many international soccers games , cricket , baseball , karate etc...... and only 60
cases .

Is it worth it to mitigate when you have a better chance of winning the powerball?

Got it. Thanks.

Odds are you will survive a trip to the grocery store around the corner driving without a seat belt on, but it is probably a good idea to strap in. Low risk is a factor, but severity of consequences is another.

Also, I think the answer to the last question depends on who you ask. Would a parent feel safer spending an extra $50 on a better quality chest protector knowing that it reduced the risk of such an event to nothing? Many would. If Damar's family could go back in time 24 hours with that option available to them, would they make a different choice? Certainly.

Again, I don't know if the risk can be eliminated by economically viable technology, but if it can then organizations like the NFL would be well served to require it. At the very least (and I hate this phrase), it is good for optics.

Originally posted by InfernoDaLuz:
Even with rigorous testing in the NFL and other sports leagues, there are underlying heart conditions that require more in depth testing than what's normally done, such as a heart CT or a nuclear stress test, to be detected.

My best friend collapsed and died of a heart attack in front of me while we were playing high school soccer. He was one of the fastest guys on our team. My state now requires defibrillators on site during games, as a result. In May of '21, Denmark's Christian Eriksen went into cardiac arrest for five minutes during a game. Fortunately he was resuscitated and after surgery is now playing again. Neither his club, Inter Milan (worth $1 Billion), or country detected anything in testing. In professional leagues there have been numerous heart related fatalities. None of them related to a vaccine.

Well I think someone said it earlier and I tend to agree and that I almost hope he had a pre-existing condition that went undetected. If not, that leaves some scary possibilities.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
The study basically said mild / moderate force can trigger these events .

and think about how many international soccers games , cricket , baseball , karate etc...... and only 60
cases .

Is it worth it to mitigate when you have a better chance of winning the powerball?

Got it. Thanks.

Odds are you will survive a trip to the grocery store around the corner driving without a seat belt on, but it is probably a good idea to strap in. Low risk is a factor, but severity of consequences is another.

Also, I think the answer to the last question depends on who you ask. Would a parent feel safer spending an extra $50 on a better quality chest protector knowing that it reduced the risk of such an event to nothing? Many would. If Damar's family could go back in time 24 hours with that option available to them, would they make a different choice? Certainly.

Again, I don't know if the risk can be eliminated by economically viable technology, but if it can then organizations like the NFL would be well served to require it. At the very least (and I hate this phrase), it is good for optics.

Driving to grocery store is 1/3000 chance something bad happens .

this conditions is in the billions . It would be like making my house airplane proof incase a plane crashed into it .

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
The study basically said mild / moderate force can trigger these events .

and think about how many international soccers games , cricket , baseball , karate etc...... and only 60
cases .

Is it worth it to mitigate when you have a better chance of winning the powerball?

Got it. Thanks.

Odds are you will survive a trip to the grocery store around the corner driving without a seat belt on, but it is probably a good idea to strap in. Low risk is a factor, but severity of consequences is another.

Also, I think the answer to the last question depends on who you ask. Would a parent feel safer spending an extra $50 on a better quality chest protector knowing that it reduced the risk of such an event to nothing? Many would. If Damar's family could go back in time 24 hours with that option available to them, would they make a different choice? Certainly.

Again, I don't know if the risk can be eliminated by economically viable technology, but if it can then organizations like the NFL would be well served to require it. At the very least (and I hate this phrase), it is good for optics.

Driving to grocery store is 1/3000 chance something bad happens .

this conditions is in the billions . It would be like making my house airplane proof incase a plane crashed into it .

Thats why you don't worry about it unless it happens again soon. Only then should legit questions be raised. So far, it just looks like a freak thing that should almost never happens, but that means it was going to happen eventually. No reason to change the sport or anything if it is a really rare occurrence.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Driving to grocery store is 1/3000 chance something bad happens .

this conditions is in the billions . It would be like making my house airplane proof incase a plane crashed into it .

I get the first point. You are side-stepping the issues that I am raising, as evidenced by the accented above, however.

Factors to consider are likelihood of negative result, severity of negative result, and cost of mitigation or prevention of negative result.

Using the first example (car crash), the odds of a negative result are quite low, but not minuscule. The current cost of mitigating that risk (since cars must have seat belts) is negligible - a second to buckle up. The impact of that choice is to greatly reduce risk of serious injury of death. In sum, a solid cost/benefit in favor of putting a seat belt on, right? Same would be true as to putting a child in a car seat.

Using your example (plane crash into house a la Donny Darko), the odds of a negative result are next to zero, the impact of the negative result is high (death and destruction), and the cost to prevent the harm is astronomical (adamantium structure?) if not impossible. Conclusion - not worth it.

The situation here is in the middle. Assuming for our discussion that players could wear a chest pad that drops the risk of cardiac arrest to near zero and that the cost for such a pad is small($50 or less), is it worth it? You appear to say no, it is not. I disagree. I suspect that many parents would as well, particularly in the aftermath of this high profile tragedy and assuming the cause is as suspected.

Hope he pulls through. Like everyone else I was struck with emotions watching it unfold. I can't even imagine being on the field when it happened, I hope Tee Higgins is okay and everyone knows it's not his fault.

Also, don't mean to be too political, but the people that use this to further whatever vaccine agenda they have are clowns.

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by bsyde82:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I can't imagine what life is like for people who actually think this is vaccine related.

It's actually nice to critically think. To dismiss out of hand the possibility of any relation to the vaccine is just pure ignorance. You all acting like this happens all the time in the NFL when it has literally never happened. It could be a one in a billion chance hit, or it could be heart complications that made him more vulnerable to this super rare event. What am I saying here that is so unreasonable? I don't know what happened, like all of you, but the facts that we do know begs questions.

You want to put all vax-skeptical people in the same boat, that's fine. But I don't speak for any others, and opinions range broadly. There should be room for discussion without instantly accusing people of being Q anon or whatever.

i mean, the vaccine has had complications for me and other people. it's possible.

And? It could have been the donut you ate that morning. It's possible.

I am an emergency medicine and critical care physician. I deal with cardiac arrests from numerous causes all the time. This has nothing to do with the vaccine. End of story.

Is there an infinitesimal small remote possibility that a prior COVID infection caused myocarditis in this young man leading to higher chance of VF/VT? Yes, but he also couldn't even have gone through a warm up/workout let alone a practice or a game without having extreme symptoms. This is almost 100% certainty not related to COVID in any way (despite what internet and message board trolls might suggest).

There's also a small chance of a preexisting heart condition (HOCM, long QT, Brugada) that could have precipitated this event but that's also extraordinarily rare. Athletes are screened with ECHOs / ECGs to evaluate for these abnormalities (though they can sometimes be missed) after Reggie Lewis' unfortunate death in 1993. My sister is a Cardiologist in Arizona and did the screenings for the AZ Diamondbacks so I know they do at least ECHOs / ECGs.

The most likely cause is what everyone on the internet and twitter is already saying. A cardiac contusion leading to VF/VT or Commotio cordis as a result of blunt force trauma from the hit he took to the chest. The replay of the hit also suggests this.

The doctors in the ICU at his hospital are aware of all of this and are evaluating him for every possible cause and working up all injuries.

Let's just let him recover, hope for the best, and await official updates.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
I am an emergency medicine and critical care physician. I deal with cardiac arrests from numerous causes all the time. This has nothing to do with the vaccine. End of story.

Is there an infinitesimal small remote possibility that a prior COVID infection caused myocarditis in this young man leading to higher chance of VF/VT. Yes, but he also couldn't even have gone through a warm up/workout let alone a practice or a game without having extreme symptoms.

There's also a small chance of a preexisting heart condition (HOCM, long QT, Brugada) that could have precipitated this event but that's also extraordinarily rare. Athletes are screened with ECHOs / ECGs to evaluate for these abnormalities (though they can sometimes be missed) after Reggie Lewis' unfortunate death in 1993. My sister is a Cardiologist in Arizona and did the screenings for the AZ Diamondbacks so I know they do at least ECHOs / ECGs.

The most likely cause if what everyone on the internet and twitter is already saying. A cardiac contusion leading to VF/VT or Commotio cordis as a result of blunt force trauma from the hit he took to the chest.

The doctors in the ICU at his hospital are aware of all of this and are evaluating him for every possible cause and working up all injuries.

Let's just let him recover, hope for the best, and await official updates.

Well, you are clearly not a critical thinker.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Driving to grocery store is 1/3000 chance something bad happens .

this conditions is in the billions . It would be like making my house airplane proof incase a plane crashed into it .

I get the first point. You are side-stepping the issues that I am raising, as evidenced by the accented above, however.

Factors to consider are likelihood of negative result, severity of negative result, and cost of mitigation or prevention of negative result.

Using the first example (car crash), the odds of a negative result are quite low, but not minuscule. The current cost of mitigating that risk (since cars must have seat belts) is negligible - a second to buckle up. The impact of that choice is to greatly reduce risk of serious injury of death. In sum, a solid cost/benefit in favor of putting a seat belt on, right? Same would be true as to putting a child in a car seat.

Using your example (plane crash into house a la Donny Darko), the odds of a negative result are next to zero, the impact of the negative result is high (death and destruction), and the cost to prevent the harm is astronomical (adamantium structure?) if not impossible. Conclusion - not worth it.

The situation here is in the middle. Assuming for our discussion that players could wear a chest pad that drops the risk of cardiac arrest to near zero and that the cost for such a pad is small($50 or less), is it worth it? You appear to say no, it is not. I disagree. I suspect that many parents would as well, particularly in the aftermath of this high profile tragedy and assuming the cause is as suspected.

Think of this way , how is the prevention of concussions going ?

but it's a great business idea. Bc you can probably sell a billion of them before you get sued for it not working .

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
I am an emergency medicine and critical care physician. I deal with cardiac arrests from numerous causes all the time. This has nothing to do with the vaccine. End of story.

Is there an infinitesimal small remote possibility that a prior COVID infection caused myocarditis in this young man leading to higher chance of VF/VT. Yes, but he also couldn't even have gone through a warm up/workout let alone a practice or a game without having extreme symptoms.

There's also a small chance of a preexisting heart condition (HOCM, long QT, Brugada) that could have precipitated this event but that's also extraordinarily rare. Athletes are screened with ECHOs / ECGs to evaluate for these abnormalities (though they can sometimes be missed) after Reggie Lewis' unfortunate death in 1993. My sister is a Cardiologist in Arizona and did the screenings for the AZ Diamondbacks so I know they do at least ECHOs / ECGs.

The most likely cause if what everyone on the internet and twitter is already saying. A cardiac contusion leading to VF/VT or Commotio cordis as a result of blunt force trauma from the hit he took to the chest.

The doctors in the ICU at his hospital are aware of all of this and are evaluating him for every possible cause and working up all injuries.

Let's just let him recover, hope for the best, and await official updates.

Well, you are clearly not a critical thinker.

Haha, guess not. I didn't want to address the troll directly but my post was meant for him.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Driving to grocery store is 1/3000 chance something bad happens .

this conditions is in the billions . It would be like making my house airplane proof incase a plane crashed into it .

I get the first point. You are side-stepping the issues that I am raising, as evidenced by the accented above, however.

Factors to consider are likelihood of negative result, severity of negative result, and cost of mitigation or prevention of negative result.

Using the first example (car crash), the odds of a negative result are quite low, but not minuscule. The current cost of mitigating that risk (since cars must have seat belts) is negligible - a second to buckle up. The impact of that choice is to greatly reduce risk of serious injury of death. In sum, a solid cost/benefit in favor of putting a seat belt on, right? Same would be true as to putting a child in a car seat.

Using your example (plane crash into house a la Donny Darko), the odds of a negative result are next to zero, the impact of the negative result is high (death and destruction), and the cost to prevent the harm is astronomical (adamantium structure?) if not impossible. Conclusion - not worth it.

The situation here is in the middle. Assuming for our discussion that players could wear a chest pad that drops the risk of cardiac arrest to near zero and that the cost for such a pad is small($50 or less), is it worth it? You appear to say no, it is not. I disagree. I suspect that many parents would as well, particularly in the aftermath of this high profile tragedy and assuming the cause is as suspected.

Think of this way , how is the prevention of concussions going ?

but it's a great business idea. Bc you can probably sell a billion of them before you get sued for it not working .

I think the prevention of concussions is probably up since helmet use has increased (and technology has improved) in football, baseball, hockey and other sports. I also know first-hand that youth sports have really focused on diagnosing and preventing the issue in recent years, which has helped. Do you disagree?

On the last point, if the product worked, why would the manufacturer get sued? Again, I am assuming for arguments sake that fairly cheap technology exists to reduce the current level of risk to zero.

I think you are misunderstanding me. Or else you just don't want to discuss this seriously. I'm not attacking you at all - just trying to have a conversation - yet you shoot back glib and tangential responses.