Coach - Steve Wilks thread

Originally posted by Dirtydonedirtcheap69:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
Though I would prefer Wilks down on the sideline, I think it is far too early to throw him under the bus. The issue is that in close games, a single mistake can have such a huge impact that it turns the whole batch sour. That is what happened in Minnesota.

Now, about the pass rush, or lack there of...

Regarding the pass rush, all Wilks has to do is refer to Koceruk. "What'd you do last year?". Done. Let's get back to that.

the problem with that is other than Bosa our pass rush sucked last year. We really need Armstead and Hargrave to step it up!

Gregory has looked promising so far.

After 7 weeks of seeing the tweaks that Wilks has made, using the word tweak would be misleading. He has blitzed more, used five man fronts, and played more man coverage compared to Ryans. He has unneccessarily changed the scheme that was in place from Ryans. Is this an ego thing where Wilks came in and wanted to put his own stamp on things? With him being a veteran DC, did Kyle give Wilks too much authority over the defense? Whereas Ryans was a rookie DC and perhaps was more passive in implementing new concepts on top of Saleh's scheme.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Blaming those losses all on Wilks when the offense has averaged 17 ppg over those 2 losses is comical at best.

Well... when you consider the context of those 17-point games, then it starts to get a lot less comical IMO.

Field conditions @ CLE, 2 missed kicks. Defense dominated in the run game, giving our offense less time on the field.

1 missed kick @ MIN. Defense was embarrassed in the run AND pass game, allowing MIN massive TOP and our offense less time on the field.

On top of all that, realistically, offense isn't gonna put up 28+ every week.

Context? You mean excuses. If weather affected Purdy's ability to grip the football that much, affected receivers ability to run routes that much, etc. Why did Shanahan abandon the run in a 1 score game? In fact, he did just that 2 weeks in a row.

The defense set up the offense in great field position after an INT in the MIN game and the offense came away with zero points after making it into the redzone. Must have been the defenses fault, right? Because perhaps Ward should have scored for them as well

I am not saying that the defense doesn't deserve some of the blame but they certainly do not deserve most of the blame as a lot of 49ers fans have been stating over the past few days. Everyone needs to take a look in the mirror. That includes Shanahan, Wilks and all players on offense, defense and ST's.

I'm not being combative about this, FYI. Just making an observation. One could say: What's the excuse for Wilks' play-calling and the defense getting obliterated against the run?

My point was definitely not that it was "all their fault," it's that they've had a huge part to play in all this. They know it, they've admitted it. I'm not absolving the offense of blame for their mistakes, I'm merely pointing out the fact that getting dominated in the TOP battle because the defense can't get off the field can and does absolutely affect the amount of scoring opportunities. The offense moved the ball well, and blaming them for lower scoring output due to the combination of Moody's misses, Purdy's post-concussion mistakes (getting the feeling that had a huge part in those), and the defense being out there so long and limiting our time on offense, I think does not totally put proper context into the scoring total. That's all I'm saying.

We are in full agreement that it's not been all one thing. I posted in the game thread the other day stating it was yet another game full of mistakes where if you take a single one away we still win. Offense, defense, special teams all have had mistakes.

Do you think if the offense was able to sustain drives they wouldn't have had more TOP? Both us and MIN had 9 possessions each. It wasn't like MIN was driving the length of the field every drive. We were mostly giving up FG's. The defense gave up a TD on the bad play call by Wilks. He absolutely deserves full blame for that play at the end of the half. That was a 60 yard play though. Take that away and we're under 400 yards. Now take into account that 9 missed tackles just may have had something to do with alot of those yards given up. Kirk was throwing to his first read or dumping it off the entire game. Should have been picked twice. The truth is, the players just did not tackle well and the pass rush could not get home. We are currently 5-2 with one game to go before the bye week. Kyle has been great at self scouting during the bye week. There is too much talent on this defense for it to continue to slide. Bosa and Warner are taking accountability. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks before we start talking about give up on this guy is all I'm saying.

Though I would prefer Wilks down on the sideline, I think it is far too early to throw him under the bus. The issue is that in close games, a single mistake can have such a huge impact that it turns the whole batch sour. That is what happened in Minnesota.

Now, about the pass rush, or lack there of...

40% pressure rate and 3.0 seconds TTT before being pressured for opposing QB's tells me the pass rush is bringing the heat. Its just so hard to bring the QB down when his first read is almost always open.

Of course it's hard. That's why the Niners brought in Hargrave to help with the pressure up the middle. There are 17 teams with more sacks than the Niners and 3 tied with them at 15. The Ravens with 29 and the Bills with 28 are nearly double what the Niners have. That's unacceptable with the line they have. Bosa alone should have 8 or 9 instead of 2.5. Drake with 3 is barely playing now with the addition of Gregory.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Blaming those losses all on Wilks when the offense has averaged 17 ppg over those 2 losses is comical at best.

Well... when you consider the context of those 17-point games, then it starts to get a lot less comical IMO.

Field conditions @ CLE, 2 missed kicks. Defense dominated in the run game, giving our offense less time on the field.

1 missed kick @ MIN. Defense was embarrassed in the run AND pass game, allowing MIN massive TOP and our offense less time on the field.

On top of all that, realistically, offense isn't gonna put up 28+ every week.

Context? You mean excuses. If weather affected Purdy's ability to grip the football that much, affected receivers ability to run routes that much, etc. Why did Shanahan abandon the run in a 1 score game? In fact, he did just that 2 weeks in a row.

The defense set up the offense in great field position after an INT in the MIN game and the offense came away with zero points after making it into the redzone. Must have been the defenses fault, right? Because perhaps Ward should have scored for them as well

I am not saying that the defense doesn't deserve some of the blame but they certainly do not deserve most of the blame as a lot of 49ers fans have been stating over the past few days. Everyone needs to take a look in the mirror. That includes Shanahan, Wilks and all players on offense, defense and ST's.

I'm not being combative about this, FYI. Just making an observation. One could say: What's the excuse for Wilks' play-calling and the defense getting obliterated against the run?

My point was definitely not that it was "all their fault," it's that they've had a huge part to play in all this. They know it, they've admitted it. I'm not absolving the offense of blame for their mistakes, I'm merely pointing out the fact that getting dominated in the TOP battle because the defense can't get off the field can and does absolutely affect the amount of scoring opportunities. The offense moved the ball well, and blaming them for lower scoring output due to the combination of Moody's misses, Purdy's post-concussion mistakes (getting the feeling that had a huge part in those), and the defense being out there so long and limiting our time on offense, I think does not totally put proper context into the scoring total. That's all I'm saying.

We are in full agreement that it's not been all one thing. I posted in the game thread the other day stating it was yet another game full of mistakes where if you take a single one away we still win. Offense, defense, special teams all have had mistakes.

Do you think if the offense was able to sustain drives they wouldn't have had more TOP? Both us and MIN had 9 possessions each. It wasn't like MIN was driving the length of the field every drive. We were mostly giving up FG's. The defense gave up a TD on the bad play call by Wilks. He absolutely deserves full blame for that play at the end of the half. That was a 60 yard play though. Take that away and we're under 400 yards. Now take into account that 9 missed tackles just may have had something to do with alot of those yards given up. Kirk was throwing to his first read or dumping it off the entire game. Should have been picked twice. The truth is, the players just did not tackle well and the pass rush could not get home. We are currently 5-2 with one game to go before the bye week. Kyle has been great at self scouting during the bye week. There is too much talent on this defense for it to continue to slide. Bosa and Warner are taking accountability. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks before we start talking about give up on this guy is all I'm saying.

Though I would prefer Wilks down on the sideline, I think it is far too early to throw him under the bus. The issue is that in close games, a single mistake can have such a huge impact that it turns the whole batch sour. That is what happened in Minnesota.

Now, about the pass rush, or lack there of...

40% pressure rate and 3.0 seconds TTT before being pressured for opposing QB's tells me the pass rush is bringing the heat. Its just so hard to bring the QB down when his first read is almost always open.

Of course it's hard. That's why the Niners brought in Hargrave to help with the pressure up the middle. There are 17 teams with more sacks than the Niners and 3 tied with them at 15. The Ravens with 29 and the Bills with 28 are nearly double what the Niners have. That's unacceptable with the line they have. Bosa alone should have 8 or 9 instead of 2.5. Drake with 3 is barely playing now with the addition of Gregory.

Yes but sacks aren't all created equal. 3.0 seconds TTT is #1 in the league when it comes to how fast a pass rush puts pressure on the QB. The 49ers pass rush is #1 in that category, top 5 in pressure rate and yet only 15 sacks. That says more about the coverage than it does about the pass rush.

This needs to be renamed thread of excuses.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes but sacks aren't all created equal. 3.0 seconds TTT is #1 in the league when it comes to how fast a pass rush puts pressure on the QB. The 49ers pass rush is #1 in that category, top 5 in pressure rate and yet only 15 sacks. That says more about the coverage than it does about the pass rush.

Mmhhmm. That's the big hole. How much is scheme and how much is talent is still a valid question.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes but sacks aren't all created equal. 3.0 seconds TTT is #1 in the league when it comes to how fast a pass rush puts pressure on the QB. The 49ers pass rush is #1 in that category, top 5 in pressure rate and yet only 15 sacks. That says more about the coverage than it does about the pass rush.

Mmhhmm. That's the big hole. How much is scheme and how much is talent is still a valid question.

Well, you could compare the talent from last year to this year and it seems to have improved. I'm really hoping this is just a case of Wilks still feeling the players out and not a problem that can't easily be corrected. Having 2nd string QBs have success against what should be the best D in the league is unacceptable.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Well, you could compare the talent from last year to this year and it seems to have improved. I'm really hoping this is just a case of Wilks still feeling the players out and not a problem that can't easily be corrected. Having 2nd string QBs have success against what should be the best D in the league is unacceptable.

Wilks can dial up stuff, but at the end of the day, players have to go play the game and execute, win their individual matchups

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Dirtydonedirtcheap69:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:

Though I would prefer Wilks down on the sideline, I think it is far too early to throw him under the bus. The issue is that in close games, a single mistake can have such a huge impact that it turns the whole batch sour. That is what happened in Minnesota.

Now, about the pass rush, or lack there of...

Regarding the pass rush, all Wilks has to do is refer to Koceruk. "What'd you do last year?". Done. Let's get back to that.

the problem with that is other than Bosa our pass rush sucked last year. We really need Armstead and Hargrave to step it up!

Gregory has looked promising so far.

After 7 weeks of seeing the tweaks that Wilks has made, using the word tweak would be misleading. He has blitzed more, used five man fronts, and played more man coverage compared to Ryans. He has unneccessarily changed the scheme that was in place from Ryans. Is this an ego thing where Wilks came in and wanted to put his own stamp on things? With him being a veteran DC, did Kyle give Wilks too much authority over the defense? Whereas Ryans was a rookie DC and perhaps was more passive in implementing new concepts on top of Saleh's scheme.

BINGO. Wilks looks like he's trying to structure everything within his own, long established comfort zone.

All his talk about not changing much has been anything but true. He's essentially forced our defense to be his historical defense, with a tiny speck of our old concepts here and there.

IMO, our talent and playing with leads made the biggest difference early on. Now that teams have had chances to watch the film, they can clearly see our guys aren't comfortable in Wilks scheme and have successfully found every which way to pick it apart or test its weaknesses in spite of our talent.

Knowing Kyle, if you keep pissing him off, you get replaced sooner rather than later. Wilks has a chance to fix this, but I don't get the impression that Kyle is happy right now. If I'm Kyle, I tell him to make good use of the bye week to watch and take notes of what we did before and get back to that.

If things don't change, I give Wilks a season and a half tops. If it's me and nothing improves, I move on after the season. Absolutely no excuse for us to perform like this and to run a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel.

This defense hasn't allowed more than 23pts this year. in the first 5 games of this year, the Niners had scored 30pts or more. Looks to me like it ain't Wilks fault, it's the O's fault (Shanahan?). Just saying...

Bold prediction : steve wilks and the 49ers will agree to part ways after the season ends with a playoffs loss

Originally posted by 49Fever:
Bold prediction : steve wilks and the 49ers will agree to part ways after the season ends with a playoffs loss

Kyle will not let it go that long. One more performance like the last couple of weeks and he will no longer call plays. He will be marginalized then let go after the season. Someone else will start calling the D.

Originally posted by 49Fever:
Bold prediction : steve wilks and the 49ers will agree to part ways after the season ends with a playoffs loss

In that case I hope you're wrong, what a prediction.

Originally posted by NinerTy:
This defense hasn't allowed more than 23pts this year. in the first 5 games of this year, the Niners had scored 30pts or more. Looks to me like it ain't Wilks fault, it's the O's fault (Shanahan?). Just saying...

That's what I am saying. We were averaging 33 ppg through the first 5 weeks. We averaged 17 ppg over the last 2 games. We were allowing 14 ppg through the first 5 weeks. Now we're allowing 21 ppg.

Defense has allowed +7 more ppg over the past 2 weeks which is obviously not as good. But certainly not as bad as the offense scoring 16 points less per game during this same 2 week skid.

for me it's not the PPG that's concerning, it's not getting stops on 3rd down, allowing over 350 plus passing yards or over 150 rushing yards (cle) per game, and of course, the pass rush not getting home; these are all indicative of a defensive that can be schemed against. Its early enough for Wilkes to turn it around, and with a 5-2 record, even 5-3, the defense can correct this and go on a run. I don't think anyone should be talking about the 1 seed though, that must be earned. just get to the playoffs

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Blaming those losses all on Wilks when the offense has averaged 17 ppg over those 2 losses is comical at best.

Well... when you consider the context of those 17-point games, then it starts to get a lot less comical IMO.

Field conditions @ CLE, 2 missed kicks. Defense dominated in the run game, giving our offense less time on the field.

1 missed kick @ MIN. Defense was embarrassed in the run AND pass game, allowing MIN massive TOP and our offense less time on the field.

On top of all that, realistically, offense isn't gonna put up 28+ every week.

Context? You mean excuses. If weather affected Purdy's ability to grip the football that much, affected receivers ability to run routes that much, etc. Why did Shanahan abandon the run in a 1 score game? In fact, he did just that 2 weeks in a row.

The defense set up the offense in great field position after an INT in the MIN game and the offense came away with zero points after making it into the redzone. Must have been the defenses fault, right? Because perhaps Ward should have scored for them as well

I am not saying that the defense doesn't deserve some of the blame but they certainly do not deserve most of the blame as a lot of 49ers fans have been stating over the past few days. Everyone needs to take a look in the mirror. That includes Shanahan, Wilks and all players on offense, defense and ST's.

I'm not being combative about this, FYI. Just making an observation. One could say: What's the excuse for Wilks' play-calling and the defense getting obliterated against the run?

My point was definitely not that it was "all their fault," it's that they've had a huge part to play in all this. They know it, they've admitted it. I'm not absolving the offense of blame for their mistakes, I'm merely pointing out the fact that getting dominated in the TOP battle because the defense can't get off the field can and does absolutely affect the amount of scoring opportunities. The offense moved the ball well, and blaming them for lower scoring output due to the combination of Moody's misses, Purdy's post-concussion mistakes (getting the feeling that had a huge part in those), and the defense being out there so long and limiting our time on offense, I think does not totally put proper context into the scoring total. That's all I'm saying.

We are in full agreement that it's not been all one thing. I posted in the game thread the other day stating it was yet another game full of mistakes where if you take a single one away we still win. Offense, defense, special teams all have had mistakes.

Do you think if the offense was able to sustain drives they wouldn't have had more TOP? Both us and MIN had 9 possessions each. It wasn't like MIN was driving the length of the field every drive. We were mostly giving up FG's. The defense gave up a TD on the bad play call by Wilks. He absolutely deserves full blame for that play at the end of the half. That was a 60 yard play though. Take that away and we're under 400 yards. Now take into account that 9 missed tackles just may have had something to do with alot of those yards given up. Kirk was throwing to his first read or dumping it off the entire game. Should have been picked twice. The truth is, the players just did not tackle well and the pass rush could not get home. We are currently 5-2 with one game to go before the bye week. Kyle has been great at self scouting during the bye week. There is too much talent on this defense for it to continue to slide. Bosa and Warner are taking accountability. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks before we start talking about give up on this guy is all I'm saying.

Though I would prefer Wilks down on the sideline, I think it is far too early to throw him under the bus. The issue is that in close games, a single mistake can have such a huge impact that it turns the whole batch sour. That is what happened in Minnesota.

Now, about the pass rush, or lack there of...

40% pressure rate and 3.0 seconds TTT before being pressured for opposing QB's tells me the pass rush is bringing the heat. Its just so hard to bring the QB down when his first read is almost always open.

Of course it's hard. That's why the Niners brought in Hargrave to help with the pressure up the middle. There are 17 teams with more sacks than the Niners and 3 tied with them at 15. The Ravens with 29 and the Bills with 28 are nearly double what the Niners have. That's unacceptable with the line they have. Bosa alone should have 8 or 9 instead of 2.5. Drake with 3 is barely playing now with the addition of Gregory.

Yes but sacks aren't all created equal. 3.0 seconds TTT is #1 in the league when it comes to how fast a pass rush puts pressure on the QB. The 49ers pass rush is #1 in that category, top 5 in pressure rate and yet only 15 sacks. That says more about the coverage than it does about the pass rush.

That's true to some extent but good QBs find a way to complete passes under pressure. It's actually a stat that indicates how good the QB is since most QBs can hit the target if they aren't pressured. The Niners are mid pack in passing yards allowed and completion percentage. They have a league high in INTs which may be a result from that pressure but I still want to see more sacks. Those sacks put the teams behind on down and distance and they often result in the team having to punt. That's a big deal for a team that's had trouble getting off the field on 3rd down.They'e allowed way too many big completions on 3rd down.

If they can convert some of thise pressures into sacks I'll be happy. Until then I consider them a job half done.