QB Sam Darnold is a Viking

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
So why has he played so poorly so far in his career if he has so many "elite" metrics?

Two sides of the coin. One side is this dude sucks. The other side is he's been in BS situations. It's confirmed he can't will a total crap org to being a front runner, in other words, he's no Peyton Manning. Watch him play, I think he moves well and he spins it really well. With guys open here, elite weapons, elite playcaller, I think he would play darn good football. Just my opinion. QB play in the NFL is very situation based. You're gonna look better with Andy Reid and HOF guys like Hill or Kelce than you would with Jim Hostler 07 49er BS football.

I don't think it's so black and white. He doesn't suck, he's just not a QB that can be consistently good. Ya he's been in some bad situations, and if he would've been drafted in an ideal situation I don't think he would've turned out great either

He's not the first QB that has a very good arm, but can't be consistent with his play. He's not accurate enough consistently, he's definitely no Manning out there at reading coverages and throwing with anticipation, and doesn't have good pocket presence either.

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
So why has he played so poorly so far in his career if he has so many "elite" metrics?

Two sides of the coin. One side is this dude sucks. The other side is he's been in BS situations. It's confirmed he can't will a total crap org to being a front runner, in other words, he's no Peyton Manning. Watch him play, I think he moves well and he spins it really well. With guys open here, elite weapons, elite playcaller, I think he would play darn good football. Just my opinion. QB play in the NFL is very situation based. You're gonna look better with Andy Reid and HOF guys like Hill or Kelce than you would with Jim Hostler 07 49er BS football.

I don't think it's so black and white. He doesn't suck, he's just not a QB that can be consistently good. Ya he's been in some bad situations, and if he would've been drafted in an ideal situation I don't think he would've turned out great either

He's not the first QB that has a very good arm, but can't be consistent with his play. He's not accurate enough consistently, he's definitely no Manning out there at reading coverages and throwing with anticipation, and doesn't have good pocket presence either.

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

His comp could be a Blaine Gabbert. Good physical tools, too inconsistent to be reliable but he does belong in the NFL, just not as a quality starter. I can see Darnold having a similar career. Gabbert is entering his 12th season so he's doing something right.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
lol, yet he wouldn't have a job if Kyle didn't like him

the guy signed day 1 of FA, if you listen to Steve Young and others, I hear he could have had more $$, he chose SF, wanted to sign here, Steve said he was smart for choosing SF.

could have is different than would have

he would have had a job; your comment that he would be unemployed, but for SF, is simply your opinion man, and a wrong opinion, in my opinion

no other teams were ever reported that he turned down and for how much.

Just the facts

mr att, you gotta try a lot harder than that.. what is this? preseason is over I expect regular season style posts, I know it's week 1, but come on man
get a few more reps, and come back and see me

i'm in post season form.. you may be starting off a little slow

if you can provide the teams and how much money he turned down, you may have something to stand on. but for now it's all make believe

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
lol, yet he wouldn't have a job if Kyle didn't like him

the guy signed day 1 of FA, if you listen to Steve Young and others, I hear he could have had more $$, he chose SF, wanted to sign here, Steve said he was smart for choosing SF.

could have is different than would have

he would have had a job; your comment that he would be unemployed, but for SF, is simply your opinion man, and a wrong opinion, in my opinion

no other teams were ever reported that he turned down and for how much.

Just the facts

mr att, you gotta try a lot harder than that.. what is this? preseason is over I expect regular season style posts, I know it's week 1, but come on man
get a few more reps, and come back and see me

i'm in post season form.. you may be starting off a little slow

if you can provide the teams and how much money he turned down, you may have something to stand on. but for now it's all make believe

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

QBs improve on a yearly basis....It happens with some regularity. In fact statistically QBs are generally much better at age 29 then they are at age 26. Not just the "stars" of the league, but across the board.

They are generally not getting faster, or stronger.....they are getting smarter.

You listed Warner, Geno, Gannon and Young, but you can add Alex Smith, Warren Moon, Jeff Garcia, Doug Flutie, Kerry Colliins, Jeff Hostetler, Erick Cramer, Wade Wilson, Tommy Maddox even Matt Scaub. I am sure there are more, but it happens.

Most of them did not catch fire until their second or third team, a lot of them washed out of the NFL and went to arena league, the CFL, or the XFL. They all peaked late, and the all were at least at some point top 10 QBs with the exception of Wade Wilson who was top 13.

When we use the word Rare....I think it is important to point out....good QBs are rare, great QBs are RARER. You are not wrong guys like Warner, Gannon and Young are rare....not because they peaked late, but because great QBs are rare as hell at any age from any developmental background.

I think you are right to not get your hopes up, nothing wrong at ALL being a skeptic of an unproven player....but consider this it is very difficult to get significantly more velocity....... Before we write off Sam, lets just accept that time is one of the things we know a QB needs to get better. Let's use that word rare again, it is Rare to have a guy that has a great combination of physical traits land in a better situation to peak late than Sam on the 49ers. This is the best combination of weapons he has ever had, this is the best coaching staff he has ever had...I think it is fair to say it is ok if we are cautiously optimistic we could see better results that he has accomplished in the past.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

QBs improve on a yearly basis....It happens with some regularity. In fact statistically QBs are generally much better at age 29 then they are at age 26. Not just the "stars" of the league, but across the board.

They are generally not getting faster, or stronger.....they are getting smarter.

You listed Warner, Geno, Gannon and Young, but you can add Alex Smith, Warren Moon, Jeff Garcia, Doug Flutie, Kerry Colliins, Jeff Hostetler, Erick Cramer, Wade Wilson, Tommy Maddox even Matt Scaub. I am sure there are more, but it happens.

Most of them did not catch fire until their second or third team, a lot of them washed out of the NFL and went to arena league, the CFL, or the XFL. They all peaked late, and the all were at least at some point top 10 QBs with the exception of Wade Wilson who was top 13.

When we use the word Rare....I think it is important to point out....good QBs are rare, great QBs are RARER. You are not wrong guys like Warner, Gannon and Young are rare....not because they peaked late, but because great QBs are rare as hell at any age from any developmental background.

I think you are right to not get your hopes up, nothing wrong at ALL being a skeptic of an unproven player....but consider this it is very difficult to get significantly more velocity....... Before we write off Sam, lets just accept that time is one of the things we know a QB needs to get better. Let's use that word rare again, it is Rare to have a guy that has a great combination of physical traits land in a better situation to peak late than Sam on the 49ers. This is the best combination of weapons he has ever had, this is the best coaching staff he has ever had...I think it is fair to say it is ok if we are cautiously optimistic we could see better results that he has accomplished in the past.

I didn't mean that QBs don't get better as their career progresses, I meant that them turning into a very good QB is rare.

And no I'm not writing off Darnold, I liked him a lot coming out of college. Hopefully we don't need him this season though

Originally posted by Dshearn:
QBs improve on a yearly basis....It happens with some regularity. In fact statistically QBs are generally much better at age 29 then they are at age 26. Not just the "stars" of the league, but across the board.

They are generally not getting faster, or stronger.....they are getting smarter.

You listed Warner, Geno, Gannon and Young, but you can add Alex Smith, Warren Moon, Jeff Garcia, Doug Flutie, Kerry Colliins, Jeff Hostetler, Erick Cramer, Wade Wilson, Tommy Maddox even Matt Scaub. I am sure there are more, but it happens.

Most of them did not catch fire until their second or third team, a lot of them washed out of the NFL and went to arena league, the CFL, or the XFL. They all peaked late, and the all were at least at some point top 10 QBs with the exception of Wade Wilson who was top 13.

When we use the word Rare....I think it is important to point out....good QBs are rare, great QBs are RARER. You are not wrong guys like Warner, Gannon and Young are rare....not because they peaked late, but because great QBs are rare as hell at any age from any developmental background.

I think you are right to not get your hopes up, nothing wrong at ALL being a skeptic of an unproven player....but consider this it is very difficult to get significantly more velocity....... Before we write off Sam, lets just accept that time is one of the things we know a QB needs to get better. Let's use that word rare again, it is Rare to have a guy that has a great combination of physical traits land in a better situation to peak late than Sam on the 49ers. This is the best combination of weapons he has ever had, this is the best coaching staff he has ever had...I think it is fair to say it is ok if we are cautiously optimistic we could see better results that he has accomplished in the past.

his traits are next level imo, you can clearly see the #3 overall pick thesis. He was the youngest QB to start since the merger, so going back to like 1970. He still is really young there are rooks coming in like Hendon Hooker, or a 2nd year like Pickett, they are only a year apart from Sam. Sam is 26, they are 25.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
So why has he played so poorly so far in his career if he has so many "elite" metrics?

Two sides of the coin. One side is this dude sucks. The other side is he's been in BS situations. It's confirmed he can't will a total crap org to being a front runner, in other words, he's no Peyton Manning. Watch him play, I think he moves well and he spins it really well. With guys open here, elite weapons, elite playcaller, I think he would play darn good football. Just my opinion. QB play in the NFL is very situation based. You're gonna look better with Andy Reid and HOF guys like Hill or Kelce than you would with Jim Hostler 07 49er BS football.

I don't think it's so black and white. He doesn't suck, he's just not a QB that can be consistently good. Ya he's been in some bad situations, and if he would've been drafted in an ideal situation I don't think he would've turned out great either

He's not the first QB that has a very good arm, but can't be consistent with his play. He's not accurate enough consistently, he's definitely no Manning out there at reading coverages and throwing with anticipation, and doesn't have good pocket presence either.

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

His comp could be a Blaine Gabbert. Good physical tools, too inconsistent to be reliable but he does belong in the NFL, just not as a quality starter. I can see Darnold having a similar career. Gabbert is entering his 12th season so he's doing something right.

I think he's got a better all-round arm, but that's pretty fair.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
I don't think it's so black and white. He doesn't suck, he's just not a QB that can be consistently good. Ya he's been in some bad situations, and if he would've been drafted in an ideal situation I don't think he would've turned out great either

He's not the first QB that has a very good arm, but can't be consistent with his play. He's not accurate enough consistently, he's definitely no Manning out there at reading coverages and throwing with anticipation, and doesn't have good pocket presence either.

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

He had a higher CPOE than Brock and Jimmy last year on a much worse team.

Originally posted by thl408:
His comp could be a Blaine Gabbert. Good physical tools, too inconsistent to be reliable but he does belong in the NFL, just not as a quality starter. I can see Darnold having a similar career. Gabbert is entering his 12th season so he's doing something right.

Darnold's advanced metrics were in the top 10 last year. Advanced metrics indicated he played better than Purdy and Jimmy last year.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
i'm in post season form.. you may be starting off a little slow

if you can provide the teams and how much money he turned down, you may have something to stand on. but for now it's all make believe

How many teams wouldn't want a top 10 CPOE, EPA, ypa 2022 QB on their team?

Originally posted by dayswwneskoqnazfma:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
I don't think it's so black and white. He doesn't suck, he's just not a QB that can be consistently good. Ya he's been in some bad situations, and if he would've been drafted in an ideal situation I don't think he would've turned out great either

He's not the first QB that has a very good arm, but can't be consistent with his play. He's not accurate enough consistently, he's definitely no Manning out there at reading coverages and throwing with anticipation, and doesn't have good pocket presence either.

Those areas are very hard to improve on. Guys like Warner, Geno, Gannon, Young, QBs that put it together later in their career are very rare. So definitely not getting my hopes up that he can do the same.

He had a higher CPOE than Brock and Jimmy last year on a much worse team.

Ok

Originally posted by dayswwneskoqnazfma:
Darnold's advanced metrics were in the top 10 last year. Advanced metrics indicated he played better than Purdy and Jimmy last year.

That's nice, but he didn't lol.

Originally posted by dayswwneskoqnazfma:

Originally posted by thl408:
His comp could be a Blaine Gabbert. Good physical tools, too inconsistent to be reliable but he does belong in the NFL, just not as a quality starter. I can see Darnold having a similar career. Gabbert is entering his 12th season so he's doing something right.

Darnold's advanced metrics were in the top 10 last year. Advanced metrics indicated he played better than Purdy and Jimmy last year.

lol. This dude be cherry-pickin' like it's June.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
I didn't mean that QBs don't get better as their career progresses, I meant that them turning into a very good QB is rare.

And no I'm not writing off Darnold, I liked him a lot coming out of college. Hopefully we don't need him this season though

Because Purdy has a below average arm, this prevents him from hitting players deep and outside the numbers. We've already seen Darnold do that multiple times in preseason.

dayswwneskoqnazfma, curious about your thoughts on why Darnold is not starting ahead of Purdy. If the stats say he's better and you say he's better, then why would staff have Purdy as the number 1 on the depth chart? Do you feel that you know something that everyone else doesn't?