Randy Gregory, Edge, Tampa Bay Bucs

Originally posted by NCommand:
At some point, Lynch is just going to have to buy a true edge rusher if he ever wants to truly have that Tampa DL he's been trying to emulate since day 1.

Or change his whole philosophy.

When you factor in how many resources he's applied to ER2, from Ford to Young, it's been a negative return and those resources could have been used elsewhere.

He's not changing. We saw it work for a brief spell. The really hard part is the sustainability longterm. In order for this to.hold, you really have to nail your draft picks and thus far, we've been really good at identifying pros, but not so much with drafting and developing. If you look at our biggest hits, Kerry Hyder, Jordan Willis, Charles Omenihu, Samson Ebukam,and Dee Ford were all experienced players. There have been misses also, but those guys have been key to our runs and we just haven't seen it with our actual draft picks. It's a weird dichotomy and I hope Robert Beal changes the trend. But regardless as to what happens, who the 3rd(and 4th man) is matters for this defense. They can't and shouldn't back off of that.

With that said, it shouldn't be the highest of priorities either. This season, we saw our secondary take a jump in spite of loss of talent and experience. I don't think it's likely we have Wilks another year (there are 7 freaking jobs open ), but I'd love for him to work with a 1st or 2nd round pick at corner so we can take the next step. Brown needs more seasoning as does Hufanga. Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir can move from top-30 to top 15. I'm excited about the possibilities, especially if by some luck he remains one more year. I think Wilks will get another shot, given he got a raw deal in Arizona and Carolina. I hope he remains just one more season to put some more of his influence on the D, especially the secondary, as well as for him to be influenced by the way Ryans and Saleh had the D-line playing.

Then of course there's our franchise QB. Should be a desire to build the trenches on O-line. If we are to stay ahead of everyone else, keeping the pressure off of Purdy will ensure scoring 28 will be a below average performance for our offense.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
At some point, Lynch is just going to have to buy a true edge rusher if he ever wants to truly have that Tampa DL he's been trying to emulate since day 1.

Or change his whole philosophy.

When you factor in how many resources he's applied to ER2, from Ford to Young, it's been a negative return and those resources could have been used elsewhere.

He's not changing. We saw it work for a brief spell. The really hard part is the sustainability longterm. In order for this to.hold, you really have to nail your draft picks and thus far, we've been really good at identifying pros, but not so much with drafting and developing. If you look at our biggest hits, Kerry Hyder, Jordan Willis, Charles Omenihu, Samson Ebukam,and Dee Ford were all experienced players. There have been misses also, but those guys have been key to our runs and we just haven't seen it with our actual draft picks. It's a weird dichotomy and I hope Robert Beal changes the trend. But regardless as to what happens, who the 3rd(and 4th man) is matters for this defense. They can't and shouldn't back off of that.

With that said, it shouldn't be the highest of priorities either. This season, we saw our secondary take a jump in spite of loss of talent and experience. I don't think it's likely we have Wilks another year (there are 7 freaking jobs open ), but I'd love for him to work with a 1st or 2nd round pick at corner so we can take the next step. Brown needs more seasoning as does Hufanga. Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir can move from top-30 to top 15. I'm excited about the possibilities, especially if by some luck he remains one more year. I think Wilks will get another shot, given he got a raw deal in Arizona and Carolina. I hope he remains just one more season to put some more of his influence on the D, especially the secondary, as well as for him to be influenced by the way Ryans and Saleh had the D-line playing.

Then of course there's our franchise QB. Should be a desire to build the trenches on O-line. If we are to stay ahead of everyone else, keeping the pressure off of Purdy will ensure scoring 28 will be a below average performance for our offense.

What a great post. I like your points about the experience coming in from the outside vs. draft talent evaluation and development. That's a big discrepancy.

NY85 thinks we're going Edge with the first pick (from my very OP). I can't even argue him. LOL

I'm fascinated to see what happens with Adam Peters gone and if they do focus on the trenches heavily this year. But to your point, yeah, I don't see Lynch adjusting his philosophy either.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
At some point, Lynch is just going to have to buy a true edge rusher if he ever wants to truly have that Tampa DL he's been trying to emulate since day 1.

Or change his whole philosophy.

When you factor in how many resources he's applied to ER2, from Ford to Young, it's been a negative return and those resources could have been used elsewhere.

He's not changing. We saw it work for a brief spell. The really hard part is the sustainability longterm. In order for this to.hold, you really have to nail your draft picks and thus far, we've been really good at identifying pros, but not so much with drafting and developing. If you look at our biggest hits, Kerry Hyder, Jordan Willis, Charles Omenihu, Samson Ebukam,and Dee Ford were all experienced players. There have been misses also, but those guys have been key to our runs and we just haven't seen it with our actual draft picks. It's a weird dichotomy and I hope Robert Beal changes the trend. But regardless as to what happens, who the 3rd(and 4th man) is matters for this defense. They can't and shouldn't back off of that.

With that said, it shouldn't be the highest of priorities either. This season, we saw our secondary take a jump in spite of loss of talent and experience. I don't think it's likely we have Wilks another year (there are 7 freaking jobs open ), but I'd love for him to work with a 1st or 2nd round pick at corner so we can take the next step. Brown needs more seasoning as does Hufanga. Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir can move from top-30 to top 15. I'm excited about the possibilities, especially if by some luck he remains one more year. I think Wilks will get another shot, given he got a raw deal in Arizona and Carolina. I hope he remains just one more season to put some more of his influence on the D, especially the secondary, as well as for him to be influenced by the way Ryans and Saleh had the D-line playing.

Then of course there's our franchise QB. Should be a desire to build the trenches on O-line. If we are to stay ahead of everyone else, keeping the pressure off of Purdy will ensure scoring 28 will be a below average performance for our offense.

What a great post. I like your points about the experience coming in from the outside vs. draft talent evaluation and development. That's a big discrepancy.

NY85 thinks we're going Edge with the first pick (from my very OP). I can't even argue him. LOL

I'm fascinated to see what happens with Adam Peters gone and if they do focus on the trenches heavily this year. But to your point, yeah, I don't see Lynch adjusting his philosophy either.

I wouldn't argue with him either. Reading that post probably is a reminder that I shouldn't even be emotionally involved with this. Seriously. I had so much fun looking at tackles last year and we took a kicker and a TE that I liked, but was drafted far too early. Why do it to myself?

The sad reality is if you want Dee Ford type talent, you have to go to round 1. My hope is that something clicks with Chase Young, we can resign him and going round 1 with an edge rusher isn't a necessity. I'm also looking at where players like Omenihu, Willis, and Ebukam were drafted, and it's clear you can find these guys on day 3 (or 2 in Jordan Willis's case), but I just can't get behind this. A third round guy with 1st or 2nd round talent, sure. I think the playoffs will tell the ultimate story. I hope we win it all regardless, but I need to see us hold up against the top pass rushing teams. It's pretty evident we can have our way with any team we want with most teams. If we can make the D-line a non factor, this can become the norm against the top defenses.

I made a post is response to someone talking about how Walsh got rid of a player a year early. The other part about that is that Walsh had the team ready to move on. Jerry Rice was on the team before they phased out Freddie Solomon. John Taylor was on the team and Mike Wilson was an experienced guy they had start before they phased out Dwight Clark. Brent Jones and John Frank were on the team before they phased out Russ Francis. I think Trent has 2 years of elite play left in him. I wouldn't bet on it being 2 healthy years however. Gotta get a day 1 starting tackle in here, on a rookie contract. Jaylon Moore is not the future. Not a future starter at tackle and not a backup.

The other thing, even if we do draft a tackle in the first, I'm not convinced this will truly be a replacement for Trent Williams. I just want a good starter that can give us McGlinchey level run blocking (McKivitz cannot) and some better pass protection (McKivitz is an upgrade there, but we can do better). I'd think Kyle would want to get back to running left or right with confidence in ripping big runs off on both sides. That means tackle could be in play in 2025 as well (obviously a trade-up is necessary) to get the best of the best available if we want less of a drop off in talent.

Finally, I'd think given that we have an elite pass rusher (in spite of a down year) in Nick Bosa, an above average pass rusher in Javon Hargrave, a guy that can push the pocket in Arik Armstead, we just need a guy that can and win on on one matchups. This does not require yet another DL first round pick. The Jets defense is just as good, with no offense to speak of to help them out. A D-line of Bosa, Hargrave, Armstead, Young, Ferrell, Beal, Davis, along with a rookie in more of the Hyder role (plays mostly outside, but can also play insde), and a rookie run stuffer (DJ Jones replacement) should be more than enough, and again, we don't need a first round pick to fill either of those roles. Then there's also the off chance of Drake Jackson taking a leap (not counting on it) or us adding an underutlized vet or two that could be on our practice squad. I'd also look at a 3T because Davis is definitely injury prone and Armstead is about to hit year 10.

This post actually screams I'm prioritizing the D-line, which I am, just not with the first two picks lol.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
At some point, Lynch is just going to have to buy a true edge rusher if he ever wants to truly have that Tampa DL he's been trying to emulate since day 1.

Or change his whole philosophy.

When you factor in how many resources he's applied to ER2, from Ford to Young, it's been a negative return and those resources could have been used elsewhere.

He's not changing. We saw it work for a brief spell. The really hard part is the sustainability longterm. In order for this to.hold, you really have to nail your draft picks and thus far, we've been really good at identifying pros, but not so much with drafting and developing. If you look at our biggest hits, Kerry Hyder, Jordan Willis, Charles Omenihu, Samson Ebukam,and Dee Ford were all experienced players. There have been misses also, but those guys have been key to our runs and we just haven't seen it with our actual draft picks. It's a weird dichotomy and I hope Robert Beal changes the trend. But regardless as to what happens, who the 3rd(and 4th man) is matters for this defense. They can't and shouldn't back off of that.

With that said, it shouldn't be the highest of priorities either. This season, we saw our secondary take a jump in spite of loss of talent and experience. I don't think it's likely we have Wilks another year (there are 7 freaking jobs open ), but I'd love for him to work with a 1st or 2nd round pick at corner so we can take the next step. Brown needs more seasoning as does Hufanga. Ambry Thomas and Deommodore Lenoir can move from top-30 to top 15. I'm excited about the possibilities, especially if by some luck he remains one more year. I think Wilks will get another shot, given he got a raw deal in Arizona and Carolina. I hope he remains just one more season to put some more of his influence on the D, especially the secondary, as well as for him to be influenced by the way Ryans and Saleh had the D-line playing.

Then of course there's our franchise QB. Should be a desire to build the trenches on O-line. If we are to stay ahead of everyone else, keeping the pressure off of Purdy will ensure scoring 28 will be a below average performance for our offense.

What a great post. I like your points about the experience coming in from the outside vs. draft talent evaluation and development. That's a big discrepancy.

NY85 thinks we're going Edge with the first pick (from my very OP). I can't even argue him. LOL

I'm fascinated to see what happens with Adam Peters gone and if they do focus on the trenches heavily this year. But to your point, yeah, I don't see Lynch adjusting his philosophy either.

I wouldn't argue with him either. Reading that post probably is a reminder that I shouldn't even be emotionally involved with this. Seriously. I had so much fun looking at tackles last year and we took a kicker and a TE that I liked, but was drafted far too early. Why do it to myself?

The sad reality is if you want Dee Ford type talent, you have to go to round 1. My hope is that something clicks with Chase Young, we can resign him and going round 1 with an edge rusher isn't a necessity. I'm also looking at where players like Omenihu, Willis, and Ebukam were drafted, and it's clear you can find these guys on day 3 (or 2 in Jordan Willis's case), but I just can't get behind this. A third round guy with 1st or 2nd round talent, sure. I think the playoffs will tell the ultimate story. I hope we win it all regardless, but I need to see us hold up against the top pass rushing teams. It's pretty evident we can have our way with any team we want with most teams. If we can make the D-line a non factor, this can become the norm against the top defenses.

I made a post is response to someone talking about how Walsh got rid of a player a year early. The other part about that is that Walsh had the team ready to move on. Jerry Rice was on the team before they phased out Freddie Solomon. John Taylor was on the team and Mike Wilson was an experienced guy they had start before they phased out Dwight Clark. Brent Jones and John Frank were on the team before they phased out Russ Francis. I think Trent has 2 years of elite play left in him. I wouldn't bet on it being 2 healthy years however. Gotta get a day 1 starting tackle in here, on a rookie contract. Jaylon Moore is not the future. Not a future starter at tackle and not a backup.

The other thing, even if we do draft a tackle in the first, I'm not convinced this will truly be a replacement for Trent Williams. I just want a good starter that can give us McGlinchey level run blocking (McKivitz cannot) and some better pass protection (McKivitz is an upgrade there, but we can do better). I'd think Kyle would want to get back to running left or right with confidence in ripping big runs off on both sides. That means tackle could be in play in 2025 as well (obviously a trade-up is necessary) to get the best of the best available if we want less of a drop off in talent.

Finally, I'd think given that we have an elite pass rusher (in spite of a down year) in Nick Bosa, an above average pass rusher in Javon Hargrave, a guy that can push the pocket in Arik Armstead, we just need a guy that can and win on on one matchups. This does not require yet another DL first round pick. The Jets defense is just as good, with no offense to speak of to help them out. A D-line of Bosa, Hargrave, Armstead, Young, Ferrell, Beal, Davis, along with a rookie in more of the Hyder role (plays mostly outside, but can also play insde), and a rookie run stuffer (DJ Jones replacement) should be more than enough, and again, we don't need a first round pick to fill either of those roles. Then there's also the off chance of Drake Jackson taking a leap (not counting on it) or us adding an underutlized vet or two that could be on our practice squad. I'd also look at a 3T because Davis is definitely injury prone and Armstead is about to hit year 10.

This post actually screams I'm prioritizing the D-line, which I am, just not with the first two picks lol.

More great thoughts. I love the added part you noted about the Walsh era. Even with Montana, you knew who had been developed and ready to go. And LOL...I detached about 3 years ago. I fell out of my chair with the Banks pick in the 2nd. That's a smart approach.

First round is certainly ideal but they're usually at the top. That said, so many higher end ER2's have moved recently via trades and FA too. So yeah, keep the options open if that's a priority for you. And we know it is. No doubt we'll recycle a number of other former first rounders who didn't become elite.

I'm starting to have a small concern about their eye for ER in the draft and Kocurek's ability to develop them. Like you said, the veterans all got better here and got paid elsewhere. But the youth? Draft and development? That's concerning when you also have guys like AA, Hargrave and Bosa to also learn from.

Whatever is best for the team. But if there isn't that Dee Ford-type player there for us, I'd rather they just stick to the Ferrell + Chase/Gregory like moves (Willis/Hyder) and use those top resources to make other areas better. There continues to be an abundance of those players year round.

It's either that or go all in for a true ER again and be done with it. It's been 7 years.

Need this Randy to show up.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's nowhere near his image, hence why he keeps trying in every way possible. I'm talking cumulative (massive list of accumulations) not the value and ROI of one recent trade. The man talks non stop about wanting closers. Kyle pisses Bosa off calling him out to close better.

At the end of the day, despite first round draft picks, trades and FA, he still doesn't have a healthy reliable 1T nor higher end ER2. I'm not mad at him for trying mostly everything under the sun but at some point, he's just going to have to buy/trade for a real ER and probably draft another 1T high.

Do you think he's got what he wants? That he's gotten good ROI over 7 years? Given you just said you expect Lynch to draft an ER with the first pick, I take it you agree.

That said, this is still a really good DL...let's not get that twisted.

Gotten what he wants? You mean a consistent top 5 defense and a team that's only giving up like 17 pts per game this yr?

ahhh yeah I think we're doing just fine. No clue what you're expecting BUT 90% of the league would kill for our DL.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:


Need this Randy to show up.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Gotten what he wants? You mean a consistent top 5 defense and a team that's only giving up like 17 pts per game this yr?

ahhh yeah I think we're doing just fine. No clue what you're expecting BUT 90% of the league would kill for our DL.

Just pushing his narrative is all.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Gotten what he wants? You mean a consistent top 5 defense and a team that's only giving up like 17 pts per game this yr?

ahhh yeah I think we're doing just fine. No clue what you're expecting BUT 90% of the league would kill for our DL.

Just pushing his narrative is all.

total bash post but sums it with "hey.....their great " lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's nowhere near his image, hence why he keeps trying in every way possible. I'm talking cumulative (massive list of accumulations) not the value and ROI of one recent trade. The man talks non stop about wanting closers. Kyle pisses Bosa off calling him out to close better.

At the end of the day, despite first round draft picks, trades and FA, he still doesn't have a healthy reliable 1T nor higher end ER2. I'm not mad at him for trying mostly everything under the sun but at some point, he's just going to have to buy/trade for a real ER and probably draft another 1T high.

Do you think he's got what he wants? That he's gotten good ROI over 7 years? Given you just said you expect Lynch to draft an ER with the first pick, I take it you agree.

That said, this is still a really good DL...let's not get that twisted.

Gotten what he wants? You mean a consistent top 5 defense and a team that's only giving up like 17 pts per game this yr?

ahhh yeah I think we're doing just fine. No clue what you're expecting BUT 90% of the league would kill for our DL.

Aldo curious this mysterious ER is that is needed to replicate that Tampa D. Last I checked their ER was rice and that's it. More b******t

I miss Omenihu.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's nowhere near his image, hence why he keeps trying in every way possible. I'm talking cumulative (massive list of accumulations) not the value and ROI of one recent trade. The man talks non stop about wanting closers. Kyle pisses Bosa off calling him out to close better.

At the end of the day, despite first round draft picks, trades and FA, he still doesn't have a healthy reliable 1T nor higher end ER2. I'm not mad at him for trying mostly everything under the sun but at some point, he's just going to have to buy/trade for a real ER and probably draft another 1T high.

Do you think he's got what he wants? That he's gotten good ROI over 7 years? Given you just said you expect Lynch to draft an ER with the first pick, I take it you agree.

That said, this is still a really good DL...let's not get that twisted.

Gotten what he wants? You mean a consistent top 5 defense and a team that's only giving up like 17 pts per game this yr?

ahhh yeah I think we're doing just fine. No clue what you're expecting BUT 90% of the league would kill for our DL.

IMHO, he hasn't had the closers that Lynch and Kyle have talked about annually, hence why Lynch is still trying and will likely try again with their first pick in the draft.

Regular season top 5 defense means nothing if they can't close in the playoffs. They couldn't close in the Superbowl and playoffs when they needed too, usually up 10 points in the 4Q.

Maybe this is the year they close the deal though.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Aldo curious this mysterious ER is that is needed to replicate that Tampa D. Last I checked their ER was rice and that's it. More b******t

I was gonna say that as well. They had Sapp and Rice and that's it.

Originally posted by NCommand:
IMHO, he hasn't had the closers that Lynch and Kyle have talked about annually, hence why Lynch is still trying and will likely try again with their first pick in the draft.

Regular season top 5 defense means nothing if they can't close in the playoffs. They couldn't close in the Superbowl and playoffs when they needed too, usually up 10 points in the 4Q.

Maybe this is the year they close the deal though.

Well you're coming off as if this DL hasn't been great this yr. We haven't even played a playoff game, so making any assumption there is silly right now.

If you can get Gregory and Young for pennies the dollar, who wouldn't do that in our position? We don't need them to be Nick Bosa 2.0…other teams would.

All those pressures have helped SF lead the league in INTs. Unless you think we have an elite level secondary that is bailing out our DL?

this system/scheme is based around the DL. This isn't some 2-gapping defense, we're not blitzing at some crazy rate. Ton of 4 man pressures & they're told to beat their matchups (some getting doubled all damn day). Talent matters there, you can't hide behind scheme here on D. You sure as s**t can on the OL.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
IMHO, he hasn't had the closers that Lynch and Kyle have talked about annually, hence why Lynch is still trying and will likely try again with their first pick in the draft.

Regular season top 5 defense means nothing if they can't close in the playoffs. They couldn't close in the Superbowl and playoffs when they needed too, usually up 10 points in the 4Q.

Maybe this is the year they close the deal though.

Well you're coming off as if this DL hasn't been great this yr. We haven't even played a playoff game, so making any assumption there is silly right now.

If you can get Gregory and Young for pennies the dollar, who wouldn't do that in our position? We don't need them to be Nick Bosa 2.0…other teams would.

All those pressures have helped SF lead the league in INTs. Unless you think we have an elite level secondary that is bailing out our DL?

this system/scheme is based around the DL. This isn't some 2-gapping defense, we're not blitzing at some crazy rate. Ton of 4 man pressures & they're told to beat their matchups (some getting doubled all damn day). Talent matters there, you can't hide behind scheme here on D. You sure as s**t can on the OL.

Just the opposite. My stance has always been to use less resources because we're top 5 every year no matter the personnel (with Bosa healthy). The needle can't be moved too much more here.

But Lynch is CLEARLY trying to still find that true ER2 and they put out a public message of wanting a DL that can close games. That's not me. That's them. This is their philosophy.

And if they choose to stick to it, Lynch is just going to have to eat it and go buy another one if he wants a closing DL. We got a glimpse of that with Ford. He clearly still wants that.

You hold a QB to the highest of standards based on what he's paid. But you don't do the same with a DL that's had more resources devoted to it in history.