And the Anti-Heitmann Crowd Suddenly Went Silent

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Repeat after me: This is not a good team.

Heitmann is an above average center. But lets not kid ourselves, he ain't Newberry in his prime. I still don't think he plays as well as he did before his injury.

Top NFL Centers (not in order):
Kreutz, Birk, Gurode, O'Hara, Jackson, Satele, Koppen, Mangold, Hartwig, Mawae, Saturday.


That is 11 Centers who IMO are clearly better. So at best, Heitmann is the #12 center in the league although I doubt he is even that high. He probably should get re-signed though.

Edit: By the way, did Newberry start on Monday night? I only caught the end of the game.

[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Sep 23, 2008 at 09:23:15 ]

Originally posted by BrianGO:
The player in the crosshairs by a number of board "experts", for some very strange reason, as being unworthy of starting, let alone sharing oxygen with the rest of the planet, has been Eric Heitmann. If someone can explain this to me, it would be greatly appreciated.
-- Heitmann does an EXCELLENT job of blocking at the second level. He is smart and probably does a good job at making calls on the line too. But he get bullrushed VERY badly at times. This causes the pocket to collapse. I think this makes up for his second level blocking.

Some of the crazy remarks recently have included replacing him with Baas...no, it was replacing him with Wragge...wait a second, it was putting in an untested, unproven rookie in Cody Wallace, to man the middle, make the line calls, and get the ball successfully to JTO.
-- Baas and Wragge hardly ever get bullrushed. Baas played center in college. Wragge has played center for us and gave the quarterback a better pocket while he played, although he almost certainly can't do what Heitmann does at the second level, but it is certainly reasonable to assert that Wragge gives us more at center for what we do. Its not a slam-dunk argument, but its certainly a reasonable one.

It is very odd that nearly every professional expert lauds Heitmann as one of the best centers in the NFC (once again this week by the broadcasters), and yet, he seems to be only the 4th best center on this team, if you read from some of our board members. Maybe, it is fifth. I'm starting to lose track how bad Heitmann is.
-- "Experts"? The "experts" have been slamming our line for years. They thought our offense would stink this year and would be no different than last year. That's what the "experts" know. And the broadcasters? You know very well how randomly inconsistent they are.

I invite those without a bias to invest about...10 seconds to find the complimentary comments about Heitmann on the internet, from journalists, broadcasters, beat writers, opposing players, and coaches. But, then again, what would they know? They are not board members, so they obviously are oblivious to reality.
-- I'm curious why these coaches and players have never voted him into the Pro-Bowl if he is so popular? And exactly when do players and coaches talk down a solid player on another team? Our team complemented the Lions defense before the game. Every team talks up their opponent EVERY WEEK.

It is always funny to find a person who does a "proper evaluation" and "grade" of a player by finding the one fault out of twenty plays, saying, "See, I was right", completely ignoring the plays before and after, when two enormous chasms were exposed in the middle of the defense by Heitmann.
-- He is DEFINITELY an exceptional player at the second level. No argument there.

Once again, for the one millionth time, I encourage board members to not play favorites with particular players. Evaluate them fairly, whether you like them or not. Tip your hat to them when they do something well. Otherwise, you simply make a fool out of yourself in front of the board. Heitmann embarrassed the Seahawk defense on Sunday, and yet...not a peep by the board. Shocking!!!!!
-- It is true that if a player has a weakness, many on the board don't bother to think or look at that players positive characteristics. Heitmann is an excellent blocker at the second level. The broadcaster pointed his block out in the game at the second level which sprung Gore. However, at the same time, you can't ignore what he does poorly just because you like him and he is a good guy.

Let's put it this way. Compared to all the other centers the 49ers have had over the years. It looks like Heitman is at the bottom:
Newberry -- Much better than Heitmann, never got bullrushed and was powerful. A Pro-Bowl type of player.
Dalman -- I think Chris Dalman was overall better than Heitmann. He did not have any weakness and did everything fairly well.
Sapolu -- Jesse Sapolu was a Pro-Bowl type of player.
Cross -- Randy Cross was another Pro-Bowl type of player.

In other words, you have to go way back to find someone who Heitmann is BETTER than. Perhaps this is the reason a lot of board has been hard on him. We are used to having top centers.

Heitmann does a lot of things well, and he is fantastic at the second level, but he gets bullrushed too much. Didn't you see him get pushed into Gore in the Seahawks game? It caused a critical fumble. Didn't you see him get pushed into Gore AGAIN in the Seahawks game? Gore was able to jump to the outside for the touchdown fortunately.

I'm not sure how you can "embarrass" a d-line when you are getting shoved 5 yards backwards onto your ass. In fact, it sounds like the complete opposite is true.

Heitmann is a nice guy who some people understandably want to defend. But I'm afraid we have another "nice guy" bias, similar to what we had with Alex Smith. Just because your "nice" doesn't mean you should escape criticism.

Do I feel like we MUST dump Heitmann or we are doomed? No. But we could certainly upgrade the position.
I'm not saying that Baas or Wragge are definite upgrades, but they MIGHT be.

I would only add, if I may:

"Heitman embarrassed the Seahawk defense on Sunday. . . ."
-I'm pretty sure we played Detroit on Sunday.

So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

I think that most everyone is waiting for MD to return and rebut.

I'm just here for the Slow Jams.

Originally posted by SolRebe1:
Damn, remind me never to get in a argument with Pete.

Isn't that the truth. BTW, where's MadDog?

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

I think that most everyone is waiting for MD to return and rebut.

I'm just here for the Slow Jams.

ah sooo...

MD's no fun though. He doesn't get violently indignant or anything.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

I think that most everyone is waiting for MD to return and rebut.

I'm just here for the Slow Jams.

ah sooo...

MD's no fun though. He doesn't get violently indignant or anything.

the responses are funto read though.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by dmbgeek87:
He wasn't good last year, part recovery of his injury, and part scheme.

The criticism of Heitmann is warranted.

You can act high and mighty bout defending Heitmann but tell me this:

if he is, in fact, good, then why haven't the 49ers signed him to an extension while drafting a player in the 4th round to potentially replace him?

You obviously do not read. Please do a ten second internet search. I'm begging you. Read what the people around the NFL have to say. He was injured early last season, but he played a lot better at the end of the season. He is considered one of the best interior linemen in the NFC. Once again, please feel free to search what the pros have to say.

I will add that the team thinks so lowly of Heitmann that they made him....one of the four captains on the team. Yeah, he stinks.

Heitmann broke his leg in 2006, and also is scheduled for free agency. Free means free, which means he is not obligated to return.

Finally, name all of the high priced interior linemen that Nolan has kept on the team. I count.....none. The Niners don't spend their money that way.

link?

Captain Heitmann

Review of Cards Game

Preseason Analysis

Barrows' Analysis of Heitmann

CC Times Scouting Report

NYT NFL Contributor

"Best Center in the NFC West"-ESPN

How is this for a start?

ah, thank you. its nice to see assertions proven.

again, i like heitmann. nothing against him. he was crap half of last year and he's having a great beginning to this year. kudos to....Heitmann.

Those are mostly pre-season reviews with the exception of the Cards review where "he did not allow a pressure, all the pressure came from the outside". Being the best center in the NFC West? Nice but not exactly a ringing endorsement since the other 3 teams are struggling to even get a starter at the position. Lets look at the other centers in the NFC West:

Cards = Lyle Sendlein
Rams = Brett Romberg
Hawks = Chris Spencer

Now, I have nothing against Heitmann and I would love to resign him but he has not being playing lights out. Solid interior lineman.

Originally posted by LeathafaceUCSD:

Originally posted by 09etihW:
Now hold on a just a second. Aren't you the same guy who treated the rest of the board like morons for getting excited about JT O'Sullivan? You predicted that JT would be on the bench after a "handful of games."

seriously man. MadDog is out of control with the BS he's been spewing. OSU over LSU, Shaun Hill sucking vs. Cincy, the Larry Grant fiasco, now JTO being a one hit wonder...I could go on. I wonder if he even teaches AP?

MadDog is, even now, drafting a post addressed to all other posters on this board, advising on the very best way to draft new posts in such a manner as to offend other posters. It will be a semi-official post, directed especially at any noobs, coming soon.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Heitmann is an above average center. But lets not kid ourselves, he ain't Newberry in his prime. I still don't think he plays as well as he did before his injury.

Top NFL Centers (not in order):
Kreutz, Birk, Gurode, O'Hara, Jackson, Satele, Koppen, Mangold, Hartwig, Mawae, Saturday.


That is 11 Centers who IMO are clearly better. So at best, Heitmann is the #12 center in the league although I doubt he is even that high. He probably should get re-signed though.

Edit: By the way, did Newberry start on Monday night? I only caught the end of the game.

Heitman = Smiley (as a niner)
An ok interior lineman in the wrong system

[ Edited by solidg2000 on Sep 23, 2008 at 09:44:42 ]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

We're waiting for Maddog to respond to nvchamps.

Originally posted by Watchutalkinbout:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:
So what is the point of this thread now?

Need a recap.

We're waiting for Maddog to respond to nvchamps.

You're gonna need more popcorn.

Evident in the Seattle game, Heitmann loses leg drive and its a big reason we stink in the goal line. We have Gore FCOL and we cant even punch it in from the 1 yd. line. Now its not all Heitmans fault of course, but he's a big part. I agree, we may have been harsh last week, but this is a fan forum and overreaction is a daily thing. Sorry, we cant be like you all the time. But last weeks game was horrilble. The guy got manhandled, and if it happened once, it CAN happen again. I dunno...thats my 2 cents. Heitmann made a case this past Sunday to be our center, but if he gets beat like he did in Seattle again, we should be questioning it!

[ Edited by 9erluv415 on Sep 23, 2008 at 09:59:14 ]