Am I the only one not convined with this O-Line?

Originally posted by fzrdave:
The O-Line still has some question marks, but it has fewer of them than in the past several years. Right tackle and left guard being the remaining big question marks.

see everyn seems to be sort of ok with that. Its not catching as much attention as say the lack of pass rush, or the play makig safety. A dominant running side is just as critical to tem fortunes i believe. wit the odd pairing of a left guard and right tackle wer garaunteed that both sides to run behind will be suspect at best.

With Baas starting and seeing his backups ( including Snyder if he loses the RT spot), ive given u on the left side. I think If marvel smith returns to Pro Bowl levels and Rachal stablizes a bit more then the right side of the line is where frank will get most of his runs. again more IFs to this team

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners have three pieces in place. Staley and Heitmann are solid, and should play at a high level. Rachal displayed some excellent upside last year, and should improve. He is certainly not close to being a finished product, and will have some growing pains. But, I see good signs.

The two weaknesses are at LG and RT. Baas is fine going forward, but does not have solid lateral skills. This limits the Niners' ability to pull him to the right on running plays. He is on the last year of his contract, and better raise his game this year. Otherwise, the Niners are going to let him walk.

At RT, we have a couple talented players in M. Smith and A. Boone. Smith is clearly the best player, but has health issues. Boone has potential, but must stay focused and disciplined. He's got a long ways to go. Sims is backup material, and Snyder is the all-around backup across the line.

One forgotten member of the line is Jacob Bender. He has a chance to make this squad as a backup for Smith.

That was my line of thinkin too...except ididnt think Baas was all that great going forward either. I just keep thinking back to LA and JJ where each could take out one man on ther own and then LA would just go straight to the second level. Baas usually needs help. On top of that McCloughan never thinks too highly of guards...even though he picks them awfully high so i think hes a goner no matter what...and then what behind him? We have nothing even substantial at this point.

Boone I wasnt sure of his attitude before but i think hes really getting on point with his focus. I just dont see him making that much of an impact this season.

Originally posted by ruthless49er:
I've been hearing how we're going to be a smash mouth team thats going to blow people away. In fact Frank will see a return to his 06 stats at almost 1700 yards. Im not so convinced.

This Oline has the following players starting:

Staley- Is the second best lineman on the team. Young, athletic, fiery and pretty dam strong. he hasnt reached his peak as either a pass or a run blocker. Been very high on this guy since we drafted him. He should do pretty well this year

Baas- This is the main guy on the line that i feel isnt up to par. An 05 second round pick he was supposed to be this mauler. I just see him get pushed back too often fo a guy with his supposed talent. His traps and pulls have never been his strong suit. Pass blocking is average at best.

Hietman- Best Lineman on our team for the past couple of years since the great LA. hugely underrated.

Rachal- I liked this guy a lot coming outta school. however I think hes going to struggle both pass and run blocking a bit this year. I just think hes maybe another year from reaching his potential. If he does.. LA 2.0

Smith/Snyder- The third part of our line thats shaky. If Snyder starts our Oline will again be at best average. He cant get the push on runs or handle good passrushers. has too many mental mistakes. If Smith starts well we dont know how long his back will hold up, will the injury be on his mind when he plays, or how hell adjust to the right side.

Norris' addition i think is pretty great but i dont think its nearly enough to get frank to 06 levels. We had LA and Jennings destroying people on the left side to get Frank all those runs. In fact Turner was basing his run plays almost completely around LA.

Look at who we have right now. Which gaurd/tackle combo do you think gives you that JJ and LA confidence? Baas isnt the answer at LG. Rachal is still going to struggle a bit more. Smith mght break down easy or not adjust, Snyder is a joke as a starter.

So what do you guys think? We need at least one dominant run side. you think we have it?

No, you're not the only one. I've generalized about these shortcomings for a while now. I currently see an OL that is largely unchanged yet will be expected to perform new miracles now that they are responsible for enabling MS's run-first philosophy. Since announcing that philosophy to the entire football world, I'm very surprised that MS hasn't done more to bolster this problematic group.

Originally posted by ruthless49er:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners have three pieces in place. Staley and Heitmann are solid, and should play at a high level. Rachal displayed some excellent upside last year, and should improve. He is certainly not close to being a finished product, and will have some growing pains. But, I see good signs.

The two weaknesses are at LG and RT. Baas is fine going forward, but does not have solid lateral skills. This limits the Niners' ability to pull him to the right on running plays. He is on the last year of his contract, and better raise his game this year. Otherwise, the Niners are going to let him walk.

At RT, we have a couple talented players in M. Smith and A. Boone. Smith is clearly the best player, but has health issues. Boone has potential, but must stay focused and disciplined. He's got a long ways to go. Sims is backup material, and Snyder is the all-around backup across the line.

One forgotten member of the line is Jacob Bender. He has a chance to make this squad as a backup for Smith.

That was my line of thinkin too...except ididnt think Baas was all that great going forward either. I just keep thinking back to LA and JJ where each could take out one man on ther own and then LA would just go straight to the second level. Baas usually needs help. On top of that McCloughan never thinks too highly of guards...even though he picks them awfully high so i think hes a goner no matter what...and then what behind him? We have nothing even substantial at this point.

Boone I wasnt sure of his attitude before but i think hes really getting on point with his focus. I just dont see him making that much of an impact this season.

I'm pretty resigned to all of these opinions these days, but I'll just say that Baas was probably the #2 guy that I keyed on most while watching and replaying 9er games... mostly because of opinions like this in bold. Yes, it's just my opinion, but Baas played very well and has been astonishingly underrated by some fans. Maybe it's out of resentment because of how long it took him to really see the field. I was very impressed with his overall game last season. He sometimes struggled to get where he needs to be on far pull blocks, but otherwise, is very solid in pass and run blocking in a limited range.

No it's you your just like a lot fans that don't know football

Originally posted by DROB:
No it's you your just like a lot fans that don't know football

ZING

Originally posted by DROB:
No it's you your just like a lot fans that don't know football

short. to the point. and shows complete ignorance to the premise of this board. I LIKE IT!!

Chilo will be a beast! Why did we waste a 4th round pick on Cody Wallace? RT hurts twice as bad, because Snyder/Sims don't pass protect and they don't block well enough to do it alone without help from Vernon. Marvel can do it if he's healthy, but we need someone better if he's not.

We need 2 linemen -- a starting veteran RT for when Marvel is re-injured, and a G-C. to prepare to replace Baas (isn't his contract up after this year?) and back up Heitmann. For now, it's only adequate (maybe).

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by ruthless49er:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners have three pieces in place. Staley and Heitmann are solid, and should play at a high level. Rachal displayed some excellent upside last year, and should improve. He is certainly not close to being a finished product, and will have some growing pains. But, I see good signs.

The two weaknesses are at LG and RT. Baas is fine going forward, but does not have solid lateral skills. This limits the Niners' ability to pull him to the right on running plays. He is on the last year of his contract, and better raise his game this year. Otherwise, the Niners are going to let him walk.

At RT, we have a couple talented players in M. Smith and A. Boone. Smith is clearly the best player, but has health issues. Boone has potential, but must stay focused and disciplined. He's got a long ways to go. Sims is backup material, and Snyder is the all-around backup across the line.

One forgotten member of the line is Jacob Bender. He has a chance to make this squad as a backup for Smith.

That was my line of thinkin too...except ididnt think Baas was all that great going forward either. I just keep thinking back to LA and JJ where each could take out one man on ther own and then LA would just go straight to the second level. Baas usually needs help. On top of that McCloughan never thinks too highly of guards...even though he picks them awfully high so i think hes a goner no matter what...and then what behind him? We have nothing even substantial at this point.

Boone I wasnt sure of his attitude before but i think hes really getting on point with his focus. I just dont see him making that much of an impact this season.

I'm pretty resigned to all of these opinions these days, but I'll just say that Baas was probably the #2 guy that I keyed on most while watching and replaying 9er games... mostly because of opinions like this in bold. Yes, it's just my opinion, but Baas played very well and has been astonishingly underrated by some fans. Maybe it's out of resentment because of how long it took him to really see the field. I was very impressed with his overall game last season. He sometimes struggled to get where he needs to be on far pull blocks, but otherwise, is very solid in pass and run blocking in a limited range.

I dunno old since hes been in the starting line up on the right and then the left side ive been focusing on him as well because ive been desperate for dominating trenches more than any other position groups on the team. Baas wa used for pulls and traps but was no where near as effective as a pulling 35 year old out of gas Larry Allen. when we need that extra push he was never consistently good enough to get it.

I guess im just envious of these teams with good tackle/guard combos. hutch/mckinnie. Ferguson/Faneca. Light/Mankins. Staley can be up there but whos next to him?

I thhought Larry Allen really declined in 2007. He could drive block like the typical stud, but ask him to move his feet (run or pass blocking) and it was a mess. (see Rocky Bernard sack on Alex) Anyway, not gonna make a big deal of it. Baas looked good to me, but still has to prove he can continue to stay healthy and play well.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I thhought Larry Allen really declined in 2007. He could drive block like the typical stud, but ask him to move his feet (run or pass blocking) and it was a mess. (see Rocky Bernard sack on Alex) Anyway, not gonna make a big deal of it. Baas looked good to me, but still has to prove he can continue to stay healthy and play well.

I completely agree. I was looking at his 06 season.

Originally posted by ruthless49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I thhought Larry Allen really declined in 2007. He could drive block like the typical stud, but ask him to move his feet (run or pass blocking) and it was a mess. (see Rocky Bernard sack on Alex) Anyway, not gonna make a big deal of it. Baas looked good to me, but still has to prove he can continue to stay healthy and play well.

I completely agree. I was looking at his 06 season.

Then I agree... Allen was pretty solid in 06. Unfortunately, Kwame was his typical horrendous self in pass protection, and actually helped to overshadow that Jonas was losing his ability to block edge rushers as well. Yes, yes... I know... Alexcuses. After all, a 1st overall pick doesn't need pass protection... < insert eye roll >

(not all directed toward you, ruthless)

I think the Hill Called Pain will make the difference. The linemen are going to be working on that hill, which is going to improve their explosiveness getting out of their stances. Carlisle is going to have those boys working on their bench presses hardcore. At least... that's why I'm optimistic.

Actually, I have nightmares about this when I go to sleep. I never worry about if I can make this months mortgage payment or pay my bills, I just have to count linemen, er sheep until I fall asleep. I n fact, I am sitting here wringing my hands right now.

Putting it another way, let's see what happens in training camp. Maybe with the same guys playing together for more than 3 games they'll develop some consistency.

Originally posted by rapid4:
Chilo will be a beast! Why did we waste a 4th round pick on Cody Wallace? RT hurts twice as bad, because Snyder/Sims don't pass protect and they don't block well enough to do it alone without help from Vernon. Marvel can do it if he's healthy, but we need someone better if he's not.

We need 2 linemen -- a starting veteran RT for when Marvel is re-injured, and a G-C. to prepare to replace Baas (isn't his contract up after this year?) and back up Heitmann. For now, it's only adequate (maybe).

We drafted Wallace as insurance for Heitmann, who was returning from injury and in the last year of his contract.

The drafting of a center did not bother me as much as the player selected. I saw Wallace as 7th round value, and saw John Sullivan as early 4th round value. As of today, Cody is no where ready to play, and Sullivan was so solid that the Vikings allowed Matt Birk to walk away in free agency.

The Colts also drafted three centers from last year that played a role on the team, and all appear to have greater upside than Wallace. The Niners simply selected the wrong guy.