If Crab were a declared F.A right now how much guaranteed $ would....

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Oh great another Crabtree thread. This was definitely needed.

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

I think Maiocco only posed the question so that people could realize two things about Crabtree's demands.

#1. If you are drafted you get paid by slotting not potential
#2. If you are a F.A you get paid by production not potential.

So anyway (including an extension) you sign a contract with a team it is never based on what your projected potential is. So Crabtree's logic about having the potential of the best player in the draft (or a top three player) is very unreasonable because any NFL contract is never based on what you believe your potential is.

Its based on your slot or your production (stats). He wont take his slot and he doesn't have any production on this level so he is being unreasonable, and thats why the media is ripping him about being stupid.

Originally posted by rob28:

Originally posted by 49ers_4ever:
It is a shame that this kid, who although showed great talent in college turned into a hold out. He is hurting himself if he sits out the season. Unfortunately, we cannot cut him loose now and recover our #10 slot giving us 3 first round picks. He has talent and plenty of potential, but in my opinion not enough to demand more money than where he was drafted. He was drafted at #10....period. I hope and pray that Our Beloved Team does not give in to this greedy kid's demands. This is only the beginning. Can you imagine what havoc he would cause in the locker room? Another cancer type player with talent. Not what this Team needs.

t.o. all over again?

Geez I hope not.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by global_nomad:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

I think Maiocco only posed the question so that people could realize two things about Crabtree's demands.

#1. If you are drafted you get paid by slotting not potential
#2. If you are a F.A you get paid by production not potential.

So anyway (including an extension) you sign a contract with a team it is never based on what your projected potential is. So Crabtree's logic about having the potential of the best player in the draft (or a top three player) is very unreasonable because any NFL contract is never based on what you believe your potential is.

Its based on your slot or your production (stats). He wont take his slot and he doesn't have any production on this level so he is being unreasonable, and thats why the media is ripping him about being stupid.

Not everyone is ripping him. Damon Bruce believes the team just needs to get it done. I tend to agree, but if he's being unreasonable it's probably cause those close to him are blowing smoke up his arse. In which case, I take the stance of don't let the door hit you where the sun don't shine on your way out MC. We have enough depth to get along another year without a WR. Giving the team MORE leverage in this than it does MC.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

I think Maiocco only posed the question so that people could realize two things about Crabtree's demands.

#1. If you are drafted you get paid by slotting not potential
#2. If you are a F.A you get paid by production not potential.

So anyway (including an extension) you sign a contract with a team it is never based on what your projected potential is. So Crabtree's logic about having the potential of the best player in the draft (or a top three player) is very unreasonable because any NFL contract is never based on what you believe your potential is.

Its based on your slot or your production (stats). He wont take his slot and he doesn't have any production on this level so he is being unreasonable, and thats why the media is ripping him about being stupid.

Not everyone is ripping him. Damon Bruce believes the team just needs to get it done. I tend to agree, but if he's being unreasonable it's probably cause those close to him are blowing smoke up his arse. In which case, I take the stance of don't let the door hit you where the sun don't shine on your way out MC. We have enough depth to get along another year without a WR. Giving the team MORE leverage in this than it does MC.

~Ceadder

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

Am i the only one that thinks he would get comparable money if not more if he was a FA. I mean the bidding war alone would push it up pretty high for the best receiver coming out of college

Whats up with all these dudes locking Crabtree's threads? Please face reality and dont lock them. This is what the fans think and it should be heard. This is not China Mr. Mods, let us speak.

Let's pose this question.

Why does the 1st pick of the NFL draft deserve more money than the #10 pick? The only thing that made him the fist pick is that the worst team in the NFL thought he was the best player. Have you ever heard an NFL team draft a guy 10th and say, yeah we took him because the guys we wanted more were gone? No, they always say "we got our guy." If that's true why not give them just as much money?

Why not just give all first rounders the same amount of money and set it at a certain amount?

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by global_nomad:
Question of the Day: If Michael Crabtree were declared a free agent right now, how much guaranteed money would the high bidder offer him?

If 49ers raise guaranteed $ for No. 10 pick by a generous 20% from a year ago, Michael Crabtree would receive $16.6 M. Oak paid DHB $23.5 M.

http://twitter.com/MattMaiocco

If he WERE a FA player right now, based on his career numbers he would get a guaranteed bed pan and that's it.

I think that it's just a question of whether or not he's willing to move back in his demand and the 9ers to move up from their offer.

In any case it's astoundingly stupid for him to make the claim that he's willing to sit for the year and then enter NEXT YEAR in the draft. I mean honestly, there is a GOOD chance that there will be some exciting WRs' that show enough promise to make the GMs' around the NNFL go "Micheal Who?".

At least ONE WR has a good chance of doing that is any of the returning Gators, given that Tebow has run his OWN off season workouts with his OPffensive unit.

I don't know who is directing Crabtree, but they're blind if they can't see that the future does not give him much wiggle room to negotiate.

I want the team to get him signed but if not, good luck to Crabtree.

~Ceadder

Am i the only one that thinks he would get comparable money if not more if he was a FA. I mean the bidding war alone would push it up pretty high for the best receiver coming out of college

For what? Because he was the 10th pick???

FA players get paid for their past production. Not because of where they were drafted in a league draft.

If he holds out all season long whatever guaranteed money he DOES have coming to him will all but be *poof* from the fines that are racking up. The longer he holds out the less the team is willing to spend to get him into camp. If he misses camp entirely, I would lay odds that he is soon PUP'ed if and when he DOES get signed based on that foot.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Let's pose this question.

Why does the 1st pick of the NFL draft deserve more money than the #10 pick? The only thing that made him the fist pick is that the worst team in the NFL thought he was the best player. Have you ever heard an NFL team draft a guy 10th and say, yeah we took him because the guys we wanted more were gone? No, they always say "we got our guy." If that's true why not give them just as much money?

Why not just give all first rounders the same amount of money and set it at a certain amount?

Mmmmmm MAYBE it's cause there is not yet a Rookie draft Cap? And MAYBE because Crabtree although a productive player in college is NOT worthy of 80 million, let alone the players taken from #2 on down the ladder?



~Ceadder

I would like one person to take on my argument that the sanctity of the slotting system is one of the biggest pieces of horsebleep in discussing proper compensation for Michael Crabtree. I have stated all along that there are circumstances that cause certain players to receive an unusual amount of compensation, and to me, this is certainly one that deserves consideration.

I have for days now listed the numerous players who "ruined" the slotting system by receiving more money than the person(s) drafted before him. That list includes: The Evil Mark Sanchez, The Diabolical Josh Freeman, The Dastardly Darrelle Revis, The Greedy Barry Sanders, The Criminal Jack Ikegwuonu (OK, so he got away with it), The Criminal Marshawn Lynch (see note on Ikegwuonu), The Baby-Killer Brady Quinn, The Worst Person in the World Robert Meachem.

Where is the outrage over these players receiving more money than people selected above them? There is no outrage.

But, how dare Crabtree jump out of his slot. The horror!!! It would ruin the NFL!!!

Defenders of the Slotting: Step forward to make your case.

P.S. Let me head some of you off at the pass on one of your arguments. People have been lathered up about Crabtree "demanding" Top 3 money, Top 5 money, more money than DHB. There are so many rumors about what he is "demanding" (which is silly because he is not a part of the contract negotiations, to my knowledge), that no one can keep them straight. The truth is that no one knows the terms that the Niners and Crabtree's agent have discussed. It is all speculation. To state that "he is demanding top 5 money" is absurd. Nobody knows what his agent is asking for at this point. Until Crabtree, his agent, the Niners begin to share terms with the press, all the anger over his "demands" are a waste of energy.

Cheers.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Aug 7, 2009 at 20:50:53 ]

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Let's pose this question.

Why does the 1st pick of the NFL draft deserve more money than the #10 pick? The only thing that made him the fist pick is that the worst team in the NFL thought he was the best player. Have you ever heard an NFL team draft a guy 10th and say, yeah we took him because the guys we wanted more were gone? No, they always say "we got our guy." If that's true why not give them just as much money?

Why not just give all first rounders the same amount of money and set it at a certain amount?

Mmmmmm MAYBE it's cause there is not yet a Rookie draft Cap? And MAYBE because Crabtree although a productive player in college is NOT worthy of 80 million, let alone the players taken from #2 on down the ladder?



~Ceadder

Why is Crabtree less deserving of 80 million than Stafford? Because the Lions (the worst team in the history of everything) decided to pick him? Why is DHB more deserving of that contract than Crabtree? Because a man who's obviously senile picked him instead of Crabtree?

You still never address the basic point, why does the fact that teams who have proven they don't know what they are doing pick a guy before the teams who have proven they know what they are doing, mean that the earlier players should be paid more?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I would like one person to take on my argument that the sanctity of the slotting system is one of the biggest pieces of horsebleep in discussing proper compensation for Michael Crabtree. I have stated all along that there are circumstances that cause certain players to receive an unusual amount of compensation, and to me, this is certainly one that deserves consideration.

I have for days now listed the numerous players who "ruined" the slotting system by receiving more money than the person(s) drafted before him. That list includes: The Evil Mark Sanchez, The Diabolical Josh Freeman, The Dastardly Darrelle Revis, The Greedy Barry Sanders, The Criminal Jack Ikegwuonu (OK, so he got away with it), The Criminal Marshawn Lynch (see note on Ikegwuonu), The Baby-Killer Brady Quinn, The Worst Person in the World Robert Meachem.

Where is the outrage over these players receiving more money than people selected above them? There is no outrage.

But, how dare Crabtree jump out of his slot. The horror!!! It would ruin the NFL!!!

Defenders of the Slotting: Step forward to make your case.

P.S. Let me head some of you off at the pass on one of your arguments. People have been lathered up about Crabtree "demanding" Top 3 money, Top 5 money, more money than DHB. There are so many rumors about what he is "demanding" (which is silly because he is not a part of the contract negotiations, to my knowledge), that no one can keep them straight. The truth is that no one knows the terms that the Niners and Crabtree's agent have discussed. It is all speculation. To state that "he is demanding top 5 money" is absurd. Nobody knows what his agent is asking for at this point. Until Crabtree, his agent, the Niners begin to share terms with the press, all the anger over his "demands" are a waste of energy.

Cheers.

You can add the Shoe Bomber Mike Singletary to the list as well. He held out his rookie year because he felt he deserved 1st round money despite the fact that he was a 2nd rounder. Chicago should have traded his rights away after he tried to get money more than he was slotted. That's a clear indicaton that he's a prima donna, greedy, overrated piece of crap.

This is getting ridiculous, not just with our situation but with rookie salaries and rookie holdouts in general. The NFL needs to implement an NBA-like pay slotting system.