Paraag Marathe Thread

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'm pretty convinced this is about the guaranteed $ on offer. We are renowned for "Team friendly deals" where we have plenty of outs, and yes Paraag is probably at the center of it.

The issue here is that both sides know that the injury risk is high, we got burnt by Dee Ford recently and I think Deebo (or his agent) knows we will never reach the amount of guaranteed $ he wants.

Problem is that there are teams who will, I honestly understand this from both sides, we've got 8 days to find a team who will give that contract, and also pay up in draft capital.

Yup. Sounds like he wants $25M and the FO isn't willing to go over $20M. More credence to disdain from the first lowball offer and that agent video saying he's worth more than $20M but they ain't paying that.

PS: Hoov, the "link" is on the homepage. You like links.

"In fact, there's a strong chance, from what I've heard, that the 49ers are very solid about offering less than $25 million per/$72.2 million guaranteed. Maybe substantially less," wrote Kawakami.

"I believe the 49ers eventually would've been willing to pay Deebo $21-22 million a year and a guarantee in the $40-50 million range," Kawakami wrote before noting that San Francisco could view Samuel's future with some skepticism.

I doubt Kawakami has a team source on this, and I think there's generally a misconception around the big issues being average salary per year.

$25 mil is plenty, I think Deebo would take it, and we'd probably offer it.

My bet is that it's the 3rd to 5th years of the deal, we'll want little guaranteed money left and Deebo will want a lot. That's because he'll be around 30, and I believe he'll no longer be worthy of that kind of money as his body will have started to decline.

We'll see but I would be he is traded within the week. We could play hardball, but he'll never be more valuable than he is now.

I would be gutted as he's an absolute stud, but I don't think it's going to work out.

I think you're missing the point. Deebo wants $25M but the 9ers aren't going above $20M (per TK, possibly up to $21). And that's before the GTD money is discussed. And that's an area Paraag always tries to win significantly.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'm pretty convinced this is about the guaranteed $ on offer. We are renowned for "Team friendly deals" where we have plenty of outs, and yes Paraag is probably at the center of it.

The issue here is that both sides know that the injury risk is high, we got burnt by Dee Ford recently and I think Deebo (or his agent) knows we will never reach the amount of guaranteed $ he wants.

Problem is that there are teams who will, I honestly understand this from both sides, we've got 8 days to find a team who will give that contract, and also pay up in draft capital.

Yup. Sounds like he wants $25M and the FO isn't willing to go over $20M. More credence to disdain from the first lowball offer and that agent video saying he's worth more than $20M but they ain't paying that.

This is where I think things turned in the negotiations:

It should be noted that Samuel embraced his dual role last year. In fact, he's the one who coined the term "wideback." But it's also clear that Samuel wants to be paid WR money, not WR-weighed-down-by-RB money.

(cleaned up this Tweet)

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) April 20, 2022

PS: Hoov, the "link" is on the homepage. You like links.

"In fact, there's a strong chance, from what I've heard, that the 49ers are very solid about offering less than $25 million per/$72.2 million guaranteed. Maybe substantially less," wrote Kawakami.

"I believe the 49ers eventually would've been willing to pay Deebo $21-22 million a year and a guarantee in the $40-50 million range," Kawakami wrote before noting that San Francisco could view Samuel's future with some skepticism.

Lol I already read and posted the TK article in the other thread . Nowhere did he say they wouldn't go over 20. Go get an Athletic subscription, and read the article
Also where is that clip of the agent saying that? See it nowhere

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'm pretty convinced this is about the guaranteed $ on offer. We are renowned for "Team friendly deals" where we have plenty of outs, and yes Paraag is probably at the center of it.

The issue here is that both sides know that the injury risk is high, we got burnt by Dee Ford recently and I think Deebo (or his agent) knows we will never reach the amount of guaranteed $ he wants.

Problem is that there are teams who will, I honestly understand this from both sides, we've got 8 days to find a team who will give that contract, and also pay up in draft capital.

Yup. Sounds like he wants $25M and the FO isn't willing to go over $20M. More credence to disdain from the first lowball offer and that agent video saying he's worth more than $20M but they ain't paying that.

PS: Hoov, the "link" is on the homepage. You like links.

"In fact, there's a strong chance, from what I've heard, that the 49ers are very solid about offering less than $25 million per/$72.2 million guaranteed. Maybe substantially less," wrote Kawakami.

"I believe the 49ers eventually would've been willing to pay Deebo $21-22 million a year and a guarantee in the $40-50 million range," Kawakami wrote before noting that San Francisco could view Samuel's future with some skepticism.

I doubt Kawakami has a team source on this, and I think there's generally a misconception around the big issues being average salary per year.

$25 mil is plenty, I think Deebo would take it, and we'd probably offer it.

My bet is that it's the 3rd to 5th years of the deal, we'll want little guaranteed money left and Deebo will want a lot. That's because he'll be around 30, and I believe he'll no longer be worthy of that kind of money as his body will have started to decline.

We'll see but I would be he is traded within the week. We could play hardball, but he'll never be more valuable than he is now.

I would be gutted as he's an absolute stud, but I don't think it's going to work out.

I think you're missing the point. Deebo wants $25M but the 9ers aren't going above $20M (per TK, possibly up to $21). And that's before the GTD money is discussed. And that's an area Paraag always tries to win significantly.

Ok first time for me seeing the money difference here. Seems they can get to a middle ground on the yearly salary. I would think the GTD money and some sort of injury guarantee clauses might be the bigger issues.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'm pretty convinced this is about the guaranteed $ on offer. We are renowned for "Team friendly deals" where we have plenty of outs, and yes Paraag is probably at the center of it.

The issue here is that both sides know that the injury risk is high, we got burnt by Dee Ford recently and I think Deebo (or his agent) knows we will never reach the amount of guaranteed $ he wants.

Problem is that there are teams who will, I honestly understand this from both sides, we've got 8 days to find a team who will give that contract, and also pay up in draft capital.

Yup. Sounds like he wants $25M and the FO isn't willing to go over $20M. More credence to disdain from the first lowball offer and that agent video saying he's worth more than $20M but they ain't paying that.

This is where I think things turned in the negotiations:

It should be noted that Samuel embraced his dual role last year. In fact, he's the one who coined the term "wideback." But it's also clear that Samuel wants to be paid WR money, not WR-weighed-down-by-RB money.

(cleaned up this Tweet)

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) April 20, 2022

PS: Hoov, the "link" is on the homepage. You like links.

"In fact, there's a strong chance, from what I've heard, that the 49ers are very solid about offering less than $25 million per/$72.2 million guaranteed. Maybe substantially less," wrote Kawakami.

"I believe the 49ers eventually would've been willing to pay Deebo $21-22 million a year and a guarantee in the $40-50 million range," Kawakami wrote before noting that San Francisco could view Samuel's future with some skepticism.

Lol I already read and posted the TK article in the other thread . Nowhere did he say they wouldn't go over 20. Go get an Athletic subscription, and read the article
Also where is that clip of the agent saying that? See it nowhere

It's literally in the bold above (as their max). As a quote.

In short, I still think this is about money...not a personal desire to magically just want to leave SF all of a sudden. Something had to piss him off and this is likely where it happened; in the lowball phase of the negotiations. Like Barrows said...using the RB role as a way to lower the deal, not enhance it. That likely caused Dedbo to now hate the wideback title.

PS: The video is in the Deebo thread from yesterday.

So now we have links to a lot...CAA strategy, using the RB to lowball, differences in APY and max limit for SF, desire to trade, etc. Crazy stuff.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Ok first time for me seeing the money difference here. Seems they can get to a middle ground on the yearly salary. I would think the GTD money and some sort of injury guarantee clauses might be the bigger issues.

Torally agree.

Kawa doesn't know anything on this

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kawa doesn't know anything on this

You really don't know what Kawa knows but never forget what Kittle said:

(from Barrows at The Athletic)

Kittle's and Warner's deals came down to the wire, with both players signing just before training camp. Kittle's agent told NFL.com that the 49ers' initial offer, on Feb. 14, 2020, was so disappointing that he started calling it "The Valentine's Day Massacre."

There's a history of this with Paraag going back to the TO days: 21 years of moneyball. It's changed slightly but not that much.

They have their $ value for players and they rarely budge.

Sometimes I agree with that number and the rationale for that value amount and other times, not so much. But the APPROACH to those negotiations seems to be very consistent.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'm pretty convinced this is about the guaranteed $ on offer. We are renowned for "Team friendly deals" where we have plenty of outs, and yes Paraag is probably at the center of it.

The issue here is that both sides know that the injury risk is high, we got burnt by Dee Ford recently and I think Deebo (or his agent) knows we will never reach the amount of guaranteed $ he wants.

Problem is that there are teams who will, I honestly understand this from both sides, we've got 8 days to find a team who will give that contract, and also pay up in draft capital.

Yup. Sounds like he wants $25M and the FO isn't willing to go over $20M. More credence to disdain from the first lowball offer and that agent video saying he's worth more than $20M but they ain't paying that.

This is where I think things turned in the negotiations:

It should be noted that Samuel embraced his dual role last year. In fact, he's the one who coined the term "wideback." But it's also clear that Samuel wants to be paid WR money, not WR-weighed-down-by-RB money.

(cleaned up this Tweet)

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) April 20, 2022

PS: Hoov, the "link" is on the homepage. You like links.

"In fact, there's a strong chance, from what I've heard, that the 49ers are very solid about offering less than $25 million per/$72.2 million guaranteed. Maybe substantially less," wrote Kawakami.

"I believe the 49ers eventually would've been willing to pay Deebo $21-22 million a year and a guarantee in the $40-50 million range," Kawakami wrote before noting that San Francisco could view Samuel's future with some skepticism.

Lol I already read and posted the TK article in the other thread . Nowhere did he say they wouldn't go over 20. Go get an Athletic subscription, and read the article
Also where is that clip of the agent saying that? See it nowhere

It's literally in the bold above (as their max). As a quote.

In short, I still think this is about money...not a personal desire to magically just want to leave SF all of a sudden. Something had to piss him off and this is likely where it happened; in the lowball phase of the negotiations. Like Barrows said...using the RB role as a way to lower the deal, not enhance it. That likely caused Dedbo to now hate the wideback title.

PS: The video is in the Deebo thread from yesterday.

So now we have links to a lot...CAA strategy, using the RB to lowball, differences in APY and max limit for SF, desire to trade, etc. Crazy stuff.

Come on NC Kawardkami says I believe. Which is an opinion no facts. And on top of that it's kawardkami. Come on man! Haha

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kawa doesn't know anything on this

You really don't know what Kawa knows but never forget what Kittle said:

(from Barrows at The Athletic)

Kittle's and Warner's deals came down to the wire, with both players signing just before training camp. Kittle's agent told NFL.com that the 49ers' initial offer, on Feb. 14, 2020, was so disappointing that he started calling it "The Valentine's Day Massacre."

There's a history of this with Paraag going back to the TO days: 21 years of moneyball. It's changed slightly but not that much.

I know the 49ers don't leak anything. Deebo himself said only 3 people know the real situation

Money ball is getting rid of good players, we wouldn't have signed Jimmy, Williams, kittle and Warner to huge deals if we're playing money ball

Paraag and others in his position wouldn't have jobs if they didn't negotiate. Something that most people don't understand in this thread

Originally posted by Izyniner:
Come on NC Kawardkami says I believe. Which is an opinion no facts. And on top of that it's kawardkami. Come on man! Haha

Believe me, he's a weasel. But he does his h/w and does have good sources. And it's not like this would be hard to believe...Deebo wants $25M and the 9ers value him at up to $21M. And Deebo using the threat of a trade to force movement one way or the other. CAA may be confident they can get $25M no matter what.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Izyniner:
Come on NC Kawardkami says I believe. Which is an opinion no facts. And on top of that it's kawardkami. Come on man! Haha

Believe me, he's a weasel. But he does his h/w and does have good sources. And it's not like this would be hard to believe...Deebo wants $25M and the 9ers value him at up to $21M. And Deebo using the threat of a trade to force movement one way or the other. CAA may be confident they can get $25M no matter what.

I don't know any more than the rest of us regarding these negotiations, which is nothing. Numbers get thrown around based on what other receivers are getting but these things often come down to small details and the language in the contract. Things like number of years, guaranteed money and how much is paid upfront vs backloaded. Agents often use the trade threat but the team has the juice on that front.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's literally in the bold above (as their max). As a quote.

In short, I still think this is about money...not a personal desire to magically just want to leave SF all of a sudden. Something had to piss him off and this is likely where it happened; in the lowball phase of the negotiations. Like Barrows said...using the RB role as a way to lower the deal, not enhance it. That likely caused Dedbo to now hate the wideback title.

PS: The video is in the Deebo thread from yesterday.

So now we have links to a lot...CAA strategy, using the RB to lowball, differences in APY and max limit for SF, desire to trade, etc. Crazy stuff.

Gotta read the whole article . And this is all TK speculating, which he prefaced it with
I don't see that video anywhere. Even googled it. There's nothing with the agent saying anything about the niners not offering a certain amount of $

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kawa doesn't know anything on this

You really don't know what Kawa knows but never forget what Kittle said:

(from Barrows at The Athletic)

Kittle's and Warner's deals came down to the wire, with both players signing just before training camp. Kittle's agent told NFL.com that the 49ers' initial offer, on Feb. 14, 2020, was so disappointing that he started calling it "The Valentine's Day Massacre."

There's a history of this with Paraag going back to the TO days: 21 years of moneyball. It's changed slightly but not that much.

I know the 49ers don't leak anything. Deebo himself said only 3 people know the real situation

Money ball is getting rid of good players, we wouldn't have signed Jimmy, Williams, kittle and Warner to huge deals if we're playing money ball

Paraag and others in his position wouldn't have jobs if they didn't negotiate. Something that most people don't understand in this thread

Jimmy is a good player? Really?

And moneyball isn't about getting rid of good players, it's about having a set budget and not budging from that. Jimmy was a mid-tier unproven starter we over paid. If Cousins comes here instead of Jimmy and demands a fully guaranteed contract like he did with the Vikes, you think Paraag accepts that deal? Lol. Absolutely not.

Warner? Within budget. Kittle? Within budget. Williams not but was overruled by Kyle. Buckner was an incredibly good player.

Again but if us could be full of s**t. I'm simply saying look at what the PLAYERS and their agents are saying.

And unless you're an official in Santa Clara, you have no idea what the 49ers do and do not leak just like your claim that Kawa knows nothing (unless you know who his sources are).

Jimmy and others signed were the highest paid at their positions at the time. That is not money ball, money ball is not signing those guys or trading them for picks. We see this first hand with A's every year.

and yes I'm in Santa Clara and I know the 49ers don't leak. It's not hard to see the track record that they don't.

kawa is just giving his opinion which isn't fact.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kawa doesn't know anything on this

You really don't know what Kawa knows but never forget what Kittle said:

(from Barrows at The Athletic)

Kittle's and Warner's deals came down to the wire, with both players signing just before training camp. Kittle's agent told NFL.com that the 49ers' initial offer, on Feb. 14, 2020, was so disappointing that he started calling it "The Valentine's Day Massacre."

There's a history of this with Paraag going back to the TO days: 21 years of moneyball. It's changed slightly but not that much.

They have their $ value for players and they rarely budge.

Sometimes I agree with that number and the rationale for that value amount and other times, not so much. But the APPROACH to those negotiations seems to be very consistent.

Exactly. They may get to a number there uncomfortable with but the start of the negotiating is also important. At one time NC I didn't believe this. It took me years to come around and see just what impact Marathae was having on the team.

I was in that camp too originally until more and more evidence built up and that OTC podcast which gave me additional insight not only in Paraag's strategy but style and reputation among agents/free agents. And his moneyball department continued to grow over the years...his title...in the war room, swinging trades with GM's, getting promoted as a future GM by King, etc...all stuff a common "cap guy" doesn't do.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Jimmy is a good player? Really?

And moneyball isn't about getting rid of good players, it's about having a set budget and not budging from that. Jimmy was a mid-tier unproven starter we over paid. If Cousins comes here instead of Jimmy and demands a fully guaranteed contract like he did with the Vikes, you think Paraag accepts that deal? Lol. Absolutely not.

Warner? Within budget. Kittle? Within budget. Williams not but was overruled by Kyle. Buckner was an incredibly good player.

Again but if us could be full of s**t. I'm simply saying look at what the PLAYERS and their agents are saying.

And unless you're an official in Santa Clara, you have no idea what the 49ers do and do not leak just like your claim that Kawa knows nothing (unless you know who his sources are).