What was the knock on Montana?

Originally posted by jimrat201:

Originally posted by Bejaard49er:
Dwight Clark tells a story about the first time he saw Montana he thought he was the new kicker. Goes without saying Montana was not your prototypical QB he was short, skinny, average arm strength, average speed and had a fu Manchu mustache (why we will never know).

Many of us were upset at the time that Walsh was not able to get Phil Simms and had “settle” for the kid from Notre Dame who was for most of his career the 3rd string QB. Goes to show that most of us didn’t know squat about drafting a QB and we all thank the football Gods for Bill Walsh.

How many people knew about Phil Simms, guy came from Moorehead St. His stats were worse then Montana's. Simms threw for 1200 yards 6 tds 11 ints and 53% completion percentage in his senior year and ended up the #7 pick in the draft..........now that is scouting!

Walsh would have taken phil shimms if he was available, that was the word. Montana was inconsistent, average arm. He was clutch however when he needed to be. As was stated he was competitive, remember the cotton bowl win in which he had the flu, and brought back the irish from behind to victory.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I told this story a couple of years ago, but for the new guys, please indulge me.

I attended Walsh's first training camp in '79, which was held at the Univ. of Santa Clara. My wife and I sat down in the bleachers of an almost empty stadium.

Soon, the QBs were going through their one-on-one drills. Each QB threw five passes to a receiver running downfield, then it was the next QB's turn. Steve DeBerg was the veteran, and pass after pass he would make simply beautiful throws downfield into the outstretched arms of the recievers.

Then it was the turn of that skinny rookie from Notre Dame. He would constantly miss the receivers by about five yards. I turned to my wife and said, The kid's not going to make it." Famous last words.

I liked DeBerg better at the time! Walsh kept putting Montana in and pulling him when he became eratic, but Walsh always kept explaining his mistakes to him and then he would drill him in practice. It drove me nuts at the time because DeBerg was more consistent, just made dumb errors at bad times.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Too small, too skinny and not a rocket arm. All of which was true BTW. But he was also clutch, great accuracy and excellent timing and he read the field very well.

Wonder if Walsh found all that our at the Senior Bowl

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Found this...

Quote:
Before the 1979 draft, one scouting combine rated Montana a 6½ (out of 9). The report said: "He can thread the needle, but usually goes with his primary receiver and forces the ball to him even when he's in a crowd. He's a gutty, gambling, cocky type. Doesn't have great tools, but could eventually start."

Quote:
But statistics do not adequately measure Joe Montana's worth as a quarterback. Watching a young Montana practice in the early 1980s, coach Bill Walsh commented, "there was something hypnotic about him. That look when he was dropping back; he was poetic in his movements, almost sensuous, everything so fluid, so much under control." At six feet two inches and rather fragile, Montana was never physically imposing, and his career was twice suspended by major surgery (a back operation in 1986 to widen his spinal canal and elbow surgery that forced him to miss all of the 1992 season). He never appeared to be a brash and demonstrative leader, and by his own account he struggled to articulate how he seemed to perform miracles so effortlessly. Joe Montana simply had the ability to impose a quiet order on a raw and disorderly game. With his leadership there was always time enough.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/joe-montana#ixzz1BvheVj73

Another knock, lacks leadership quality. He got the other guys respect by taking the hits, comes back to the huddle and try to win the game. Everything else is overrated expectation of leadership.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Found this...

Quote:
Before the 1979 draft, one scouting combine rated Montana a 6½ (out of 9). The report said: "He can thread the needle, but usually goes with his primary receiver and forces the ball to him even when he's in a crowd. He's a gutty, gambling, cocky type. Doesn't have great tools, but could eventually start."

Quote:
But statistics do not adequately measure Joe Montana's worth as a quarterback. Watching a young Montana practice in the early 1980s, coach Bill Walsh commented, "there was something hypnotic about him. That look when he was dropping back; he was poetic in his movements, almost sensuous, everything so fluid, so much under control." At six feet two inches and rather fragile, Montana was never physically imposing, and his career was twice suspended by major surgery (a back operation in 1986 to widen his spinal canal and elbow surgery that forced him to miss all of the 1992 season). He never appeared to be a brash and demonstrative leader, and by his own account he struggled to articulate how he seemed to perform miracles so effortlessly. Joe Montana simply had the ability to impose a quiet order on a raw and disorderly game. With his leadership there was always time enough.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/joe-montana#ixzz1BvheVj73

Another knock, lacks leadership quality. He got the other guys respect by taking the hits, comes back to the huddle and try to win the game. Everything else is overrated expectation of leadership.

Exactly...none of this over rated "swag" bullsht. Just go out there...set te expectations...and get the job done.

Chicken legs.

Too lazy to go back and see Darth's brilliant post.

Originally posted by ninertico:
Chicken legs.

Too lazy to go back and see Darth's brilliant post.

LOL!

Originally posted by ninertico:
Chicken legs.

Too lazy to go back and see Darth's brilliant post.

I remember a video of the team on some sort of vacation. They were all in shorts and t-shirts. They were teasing Joe about his skinny legs. I think it was Carmen Policy that said 'The last time I saw a pair of legs like that, they were sticking out of a nest'

Originally posted by WestCoast:
Coming out of college, what were people critical on that made him get drafted in the 3rd round? Was it only his arm strength?

I think the Niners and every other team not called the Pats and maybe colts & Packers are asking the same thing about T Brady...how did he go to the 6th was it?

Originally posted by ninertico:
Chicken legs.

Too lazy to go back and see Darth's brilliant post.

Incorrect, team mates called him "bird legs" haha.

Montana was not only drafted in the 3rd - it was the last pick of the 3rd round - number 82 overall. The funny thing is that the Steelers (his hometown team) forfeited their 3rd round pick (#76) for a training camp violation. Who knows if they would have grabbed Joe at that point with Bradshaw getting up there in years.

Walsh saw something but not enough to take Joe ahead of James Owens or move up to grab him. Funny how history works out sometimes. Alex Smith #1 BUST. Joe Montana #82 Hall of Famer.

Talking about Montana and Walsh- Nobody ever stop to think although he was sick, Walsh never gave the Alex Smith pick a ringing endorsement. That says something in volumes.

History is a great teacher; it allows us to see things in better perspective.

First, let me say that there is no greater fan of Walsh and Montana than me. But even the great ones struggle. The NFL is an intensly competitive forum. Even the best suffer failure and disppointment. Although I am old enough to have witnessed it all, sometimes the fog of time obscures what had happened.

I reviewed some old 49er archives to bring up some old wounds. During Walsh's ten years his regualr season record was 103-55. Yes, they actually lost 55 games. Between Walsh's SB wins there were three really frustrating years - '85, '86 and '87.

In '85, we were 10-6 and lost the first playoff game to the NYG 17-3. Joe's QB rating was 65.6, with 0 TDs and 1 INT.

In '86 we were 10-6 and lost our first playoff game to the NYG again 49-3. Joe's rating was 34.2 with 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

Then in '87, our season's record was 13-2 but we again lost the first playoff game to MINN 36-24. Joe's rating was 42.0 with 0 TDs and 1 INT.

As can be seen, even the great ones do not always win or dominate. Joe had great coaches, receivers and operated under the same system for 10 years, but even that did not always produce dazzling results.

Originally posted by excelsior:
History is a great teacher; it allows us to see things in better perspective.

First, let me say that there is no greater fan of Walsh and Montana than me. But even the great ones struggle. The NFL is an intensly competitive forum. Even the best suffer failure and disppointment. Although I am old enough to have witnessed it all, sometimes the fog of time obscures what had happened.

I reviewed some old 49er archives to bring up some old wounds. During Walsh's ten years his regualr season record was 103-55. Yes, they actually lost 55 games. Between Walsh's SB wins there were three really frustrating years - '85, '86 and '87.

In '85, we were 10-6 and lost the first playoff game to the NYG 17-3. Joe's QB rating was 65.6, with 0 TDs and 1 INT.

In '86 we were 10-6 and lost our first playoff game to the NYG again 49-3. Joe's rating was 34.2 with 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

Then in '87, our season's record was 13-2 but we again lost the first playoff game to MINN 36-24. Joe's rating was 42.0 with 0 TDs and 1 INT.

As can be seen, even the great ones do not always win or dominate. Joe had great coaches, receivers and operated under the same system for 10 years, but even that did not always produce dazzling results.

Yes, but at least they were winning and getting to the playoffs, 85 was after the 84 superbowl, almost every team has a let down after a SB win, plus everything happens for a reason, let us not forget the draft picks we got that set the fondation for 88 and 89 and even 94

Agree with the earlier comments about Joe's spotty college record at ND. Injuries early on. Unimpressve college career stats. Much time as a 2nd or 3rd stringer.

Here's another reason that Joe may have been under-valued at draft time. His HC at ND was Dan Devine, a NFL desciple of Vince Lombardi, who was eventually found to be a poor HC, but at the time, was highly valued by scouts for his Lombardi connection. As I recalll, Devine did not exactly give Joe a ringing endorsement coming into the NFL draft. Maybe it was simply poor judgement by Devine. Maybe it was Devine's disappointment in Joe not being available enough of the time, due to his injuries early on.

If you saw that Cotton Bowl performance by Joe, under frigid weather conditions, you saw a money player, with a calmness that pervaded his teammates. Yes, Joe's footwork was fabulous, and his accuracy and decision-making were execptional. But more than anything, it was Joe's big game calmness, first seen by this fan in that Cotton Bowl, which resulted in Joe winning every Super Bowl in which he played, without throwing a single interception. That's clutch. That's money.

So, when looking at the young QB's in this draft, here's a priority checklist that fans might want to look for:

Quick feet with the balance of a basketball player.
Outstanding accuracy to both sides of the field up to 20 yards.
Big game standout - (a gamer above all)
Calmness in big games and tight spots, and mastery of his playbook.
A geometrical understanding of what everyone is doing on the field
Pocket presence.
Excellent vision and anticipation.
Swift, decisive and correct decision-mnaking.
Makes everyone around him play better.
Leadership in the huddle.

What may NOT be necessary:
Glowing endorsement from his college coach
Rocket arm.
Height above 6'2"
Injury-free history