Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Now time to give Greg Roman an extension.

My brother cciowa might extend his middle finger

Too late; done in 2013 through 2015.

Cciowa approves

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Now time to give Greg Roman an extension.

My brother cciowa might extend his middle finger

Too late; done in 2013 through 2015.

Cciowa approves

Oh, well, you KNOW he does! LOL

Originally posted by Giedi:
Three years in a row we lose in the playoffs and I think a big part of the loss is the lack of good DB's. That's just my view. Just this last one against the Seattle SeaRoids, if the Jermaine Kearse go ahead TD was better defensed, we'd be in the super bowl, and most likely have won against the Broncos. We seem to have the Bronco's number in super bowls. I think an adjustment in defensive philosophy, or at least a re-examination of it is in order. I think they way the draft this year will be an indication of a possible change in philosophy or an adjustment of the dome patrol defense.

We played the Broncos in the Super Bowl 25 years ago. I haven't checked the Broncos depth chart recently, but I bet at least half the player since then have retired.

And Fangio doesn't draft players or probably do much scouting either. He coaches them.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Giedi:

One thing that George Siefert had over Fangio is that George can draft DB's. I don't think Fangio has 1. drafted well on the DB side or 2. devoted enough resources to shore up our DBs using high round picks. Eric Reid is a good start, but I'd like him to concentrate more on getting better DB's than putting so much draft capital on the Linebacking side.

It's a passing league nowadays, specially in the post season, and having great linebackers is good for the regular season where you have a lot of teams that suck at passing and their bread and butter is running, but our weak secondary has been really hurting us in the post season.

Baalke is in charge of the draft. I am sure that Fangio works with Baalke and gives his input, but we really do not enough information to even guess about the drafting ability of Fangio.

Assume what we may, we do not even know who was the main force behind the selection of Reid.

George Seifert didn't draft either until he took over from Walsh. By then his defenses won 4 super bowls.

WTF

You are criticizing the ability of Fangio to draft. Fangio does not draft the players; Baalke does.

You should not criticize him for his drafting skill, when he does not draft. Not all that complicated.

Saints had no real offense in dome patrol days, and they had to contend with Montana in the division. BTW, Seifert was our DB coach from '80-'82 so it makes sense we had good DB evaluation during that tenure, then DC until Walsh retired.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Saints had no real offense in dome patrol days, and they had to contend with Montana in the division. BTW, Seifert was our DB coach from '80-'82 so it makes sense we had good DB evaluation during that tenure, then DC until Walsh retired.

Yes NO defense was lights out. Historically great. We lost in 2011 and 2013 but the defense carried the least of the blame. Saints lost playoff games because the QB Bobby Hebert choked games away to the Eagles and Falcons (Deion Sanders) when the defense had them in position to win

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Giedi:

One thing that George Siefert had over Fangio is that George can draft DB's. I don't think Fangio has 1. drafted well on the DB side or 2. devoted enough resources to shore up our DBs using high round picks. Eric Reid is a good start, but I'd like him to concentrate more on getting better DB's than putting so much draft capital on the Linebacking side.

It's a passing league nowadays, specially in the post season, and having great linebackers is good for the regular season where you have a lot of teams that suck at passing and their bread and butter is running, but our weak secondary has been really hurting us in the post season.

Baalke is in charge of the draft. I am sure that Fangio works with Baalke and gives his input, but we really do not enough information to even guess about the drafting ability of Fangio.

Assume what we may, we do not even know who was the main force behind the selection of Reid.

George Seifert didn't draft either until he took over from Walsh. By then his defenses won 4 super bowls.

WTF

You are criticizing the ability of Fangio to draft. Fangio does not draft the players; Baalke does.

You should not criticize him for his drafting skill, when he does not draft. Not all that complicated.

The guy is the defensive coordinator, and it's his job to advocate for his side of the LOS. It would be idiotic to think he doesn't have *any* say in the draft at all. Good DC's push for their players - after all, it's their job on the line too if the front office doesn't give them the tools to succeed. Now, Baalke has the ultimate last word on who is to be drafted, that's true. But my criticism isn't so much on how this organization drafts, as it's their defensive philosophy.

Again, the main thrust of my peeve is that they are not designed to win in the post season. When was the last time Walsh had all pro middle linebackers and won the Super Bowl? Nothing against P Willis or Bowman, but Walsh had 3 Super bowls and the emphasis and genius of his defense was to stop the pass, not the run. Seifert has two Super Bowl wins, and his first one was built on Walsh's defensive emphasis on stopping the pass, not the run, in the post season.

Seattle under Pete, essentially was using Seifert's defensive design, to win the last Super Bowl. While, our dome patrol defense keeps failing in the post season. In 1994, we didn't get a safety in free agency to put us over the top, we got a CB in Deion. Last three drafts, lots of cap space and draft resources was devoted to the safety position rather than the CB position. I think the fact that we haven't emphasized strong cornerback play, and emphasized strong front 7 play goes back to the dome patrol philosophy which hasn't won a Super Bowl as far as I know. That's my peeve on Fangio, not the fact that he drafts or doesn't draft. That's a side issue.

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:

I haven't been shy about my dislike for Vic Failgio... He gets by on our worldly talent. A better coach woulda had our boys playing like the 2000 Ravens. One DE goes down and we're giving up 30+ points a game in the playoffs (to very good teams, I will add)

He's just SO SLOW to adjust. He's the literal weakest link on our team with Snyder (puke) a close second. In this interview, he's still spouting off a reluctance to let younger DLs earn their stripes in games, while also advocating Carlos Rodgers supreme slot corner abilities.

What's Harbaughs motto? If you're not getting better, you're getting worse. And Failgio has a lengthy résumé of making his Defenses worse the longer he coaches them. When you're in the middle of a Super Bowl window, why keep him around???

Thoughts?

Word. Fangio is overrated. Not happy but Harbaugh is a guy assistants want to coach for.

Originally posted by Giedi:
The guy is the defensive coordinator, and it's his job to advocate for his side of the LOS. It would be idiotic to think he doesn't have *any* say in the draft at all. Good DC's push for their players - after all, it's their job on the line too if the front office doesn't give them the tools to succeed. Now, Baalke has the ultimate last word on who is to be drafted, that's true. But my criticism isn't so much on how this organization drafts, as it's their defensive philosophy.

Again, the main thrust of my peeve is that they are not designed to win in the post season. When was the last time Walsh had all pro middle linebackers and won the Super Bowl? Nothing against P Willis or Bowman, but Walsh had 3 Super bowls and the emphasis and genius of his defense was to stop the pass, not the run. Seifert has two Super Bowl wins, and his first one was built on Walsh's defensive emphasis on stopping the pass, not the run, in the post season.

Seattle under Pete, essentially was using Seifert's defensive design, to win the last Super Bowl. While, our dome patrol defense keeps failing in the post season. In 1994, we didn't get a safety in free agency to put us over the top, we got a CB in Deion. Last three drafts, lots of cap space and draft resources was devoted to the safety position rather than the CB position. I think the fact that we haven't emphasized strong cornerback play, and emphasized strong front 7 play goes back to the dome patrol philosophy which hasn't won a Super Bowl as far as I know. That's my peeve on Fangio, not the fact that he drafts or doesn't draft. That's a side issue.

Yeah, we do tend to work backwards a bit. For instance, we lean heavily on the run while many teams basically only use it to keep defenses honest. Fangio could care less if you march up and down the field as long as you don't give up TD's or give up an easy bomb. That said, while many say the focus is on the front 7, and while we have the best 4 LB's in the game WITH rotational depth (esp. at OLB), he rarely changes up scheme or design and rarely rushes the ILB's, S's or CB's or overloads pass rushers to one side. In short, he's very vanilla. His coverage schemes on the back end are more elaborate (complicated) for sure. Playing off coverage 15 yards on 3rd and 5, I'll never understand esp. when he does this WHILE blitzing; talk about giving the QB an easy out. So there are quite a few head-scratching things he does esp. when he had a history/reputation with the Dome Patrol...it just seems that no matter coach comes here, they are VERY conservative from Nolan to Singletary to Fangio to Harbaugh/Roman. Fortunately for Fangio/HaRoman we have supreme talent that can run just about any scheme and get better and better in it. But at some point, like in the playoffs, you're right...coaching/game-planning is the difference between two equally talented teams. And I feel this is an area we clearly have been let down the past 3 years (from offense to defense to special teams).

Originally posted by Giedi:
The guy is the defensive coordinator, and it's his job to advocate for his side of the LOS. It would be idiotic to think he doesn't have *any* say in the draft at all. Good DC's push for their players - after all, it's their job on the line too if the front office doesn't give them the tools to succeed. Now, Baalke has the ultimate last word on who is to be drafted, that's true. But my criticism isn't so much on how this organization drafts, as it's their defensive philosophy.

Again, the main thrust of my peeve is that they are not designed to win in the post season. When was the last time Walsh had all pro middle linebackers and won the Super Bowl? Nothing against P Willis or Bowman, but Walsh had 3 Super bowls and the emphasis and genius of his defense was to stop the pass, not the run. Seifert has two Super Bowl wins, and his first one was built on Walsh's defensive emphasis on stopping the pass, not the run, in the post season.

Seattle under Pete, essentially was using Seifert's defensive design, to win the last Super Bowl. While, our dome patrol defense keeps failing in the post season. In 1994, we didn't get a safety in free agency to put us over the top, we got a CB in Deion. Last three drafts, lots of cap space and draft resources was devoted to the safety position rather than the CB position. I think the fact that we haven't emphasized strong cornerback play, and emphasized strong front 7 play goes back to the dome patrol philosophy which hasn't won a Super Bowl as far as I know. That's my peeve on Fangio, not the fact that he drafts or doesn't draft. That's a side issue.

Yeah, we do tend to work backwards a bit. For instance, we lean heavily on the run while many teams basically only use it to keep defenses honest. Fangio could care less if you march up and down the field as long as you don't give up TD's or give up an easy bomb. That said, while many say the focus is on the front 7, and while we have the best 4 LB's in the game WITH rotational depth (esp. at OLB), he rarely changes up scheme or design and rarely rushes the ILB's, S's or CB's or overloads pass rushers to one side. In short, he's very vanilla. His coverage schemes on the back end are more elaborate (complicated) for sure. Playing off coverage 15 yards on 3rd and 5, I'll never understand esp. when he does this WHILE blitzing; talk about giving the QB an easy out. So there are quite a few head-scratching things he does esp. when he had a history/reputation with the Dome Patrol...it just seems that no matter coach comes here, they are VERY conservative from Nolan to Singletary to Fangio to Harbaugh/Roman. Fortunately for Fangio/HaRoman we have supreme talent that can run just about any scheme and get better and better in it. But at some point, like in the playoffs, you're right...coaching/game-planning is the difference between two equally talented teams. And I feel this is an area we clearly have been let down the past 3 years (from offense to defense to special teams).

Originally posted by Giedi:

The guy is the defensive coordinator, and it's his job to advocate for his side of the LOS. It would be idiotic to think he doesn't have *any* say in the draft at all. Good DC's push for their players - after all, it's their job on the line too if the front office doesn't give them the tools to succeed. Now, Baalke has the ultimate last word on who is to be drafted, that's true. But my criticism isn't so much on how this organization drafts, as it's their defensive philosophy.

That's a side issue.

We agree Fangio does not draft.

I previously stated that Fangio has input or in your words advocate for his side of the LOS.

Now, you seem to agree with my argument that Fangio does not do the drafting.

I am glad that this side issue is resolved.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, we do tend to work backwards a bit. For instance, we lean heavily on the run while many teams basically only use it to keep defenses honest.

Fangio could care less if you march up and down the field as long as you don't give up TD's or give up an easy bomb. That said, while many say the focus is on the front 7, and while we have the best 4 LB's in the game WITH rotational depth (esp. at OLB), he rarely changes up scheme or design and rarely rushes the ILB's, S's or CB's or overloads pass rushers to one side. In short, he's very vanilla.

His coverage schemes on the back end are more elaborate (complicated) for sure. Playing off coverage 15 yards on 3rd and 5, I'll never understand esp. when he does this WHILE blitzing; talk about giving the QB an easy out.

So there are quite a few head-scratching things he does esp. when he had a history/reputation with the Dome Patrol...it just seems that no matter coach comes here, they are VERY conservative from Nolan to Singletary to Fangio to Harbaugh/Roman.

Fortunately for Fangio/HaRoman we have supreme talent that can run just about any scheme and get better and better in it.

But at some point, like in the playoffs, you're right...coaching/game-planning is the difference between two equally talented teams. And I feel this is an area we clearly have been let down the past 3 years (from offense to defense to special teams).

You really should break your posts down into paragraphs or use some white space to separate the points being made.
It would make your posts easier to read and/or understand.

I did it above. Maybe, I am just slow, but...., oh well, just a friendly suggestion.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, we do tend to work backwards a bit. For instance, we lean heavily on the run while many teams basically only use it to keep defenses honest.

Fangio could care less if you march up and down the field as long as you don't give up TD's or give up an easy bomb. That said, while many say the focus is on the front 7, and while we have the best 4 LB's in the game WITH rotational depth (esp. at OLB), he rarely changes up scheme or design and rarely rushes the ILB's, S's or CB's or overloads pass rushers to one side. In short, he's very vanilla.

His coverage schemes on the back end are more elaborate (complicated) for sure. Playing off coverage 15 yards on 3rd and 5, I'll never understand esp. when he does this WHILE blitzing; talk about giving the QB an easy out.

So there are quite a few head-scratching things he does esp. when he had a history/reputation with the Dome Patrol...it just seems that no matter coach comes here, they are VERY conservative from Nolan to Singletary to Fangio to Harbaugh/Roman.

Fortunately for Fangio/HaRoman we have supreme talent that can run just about any scheme and get better and better in it.

But at some point, like in the playoffs, you're right...coaching/game-planning is the difference between two equally talented teams. And I feel this is an area we clearly have been let down the past 3 years (from offense to defense to special teams).

You really should break your posts down into paragraphs or use some white space to separate the points being made.
It would make your posts easier to read and/or understand.

I did it above. Maybe, I am just slow, but...., oh well, just a friendly suggestion.

LOL...appreciate the feedback. That said, my work filter sometimes doesn't allow me to put in spaces so it comes out one long never-ending paragraph. My apologies. When it does that I try later to go back and edit.

Prior to last year the complaints about Fangio were that he was too vanilla, that he did not rotate the defensive line sufficiently, and that he did use the blitz enough.

Last year, he did rotate the defensive line. It seemed that he did call more blitzes.

Fangio appears to have made adjustments last year. I feel confident that he will continue to adapt and explore.

Our special teams coverage seemed to improve. Our return game still needs to get better, and I think much better.

Our offense, and the passing offense in particular, seemed to remain the same. I saw very little adaptation on the part of our offensive coaching staff. The passing game needs to improve significantly, to at least become more efficient.

In short, in my estimation, Fangio and the defense are the least of our problems.

I hope that, but not necessarily expect, the offensive coaching staff will make what appear to be the clearly needed changes.

Looking forward to the draft and I can not wait for the games to begin.