Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Originally posted by buck:
The timely use of conceived, effective blitzes should help can confound the opposing offense.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

You keep making my point for me.

I don't see too many hall of famers there, except for Freddie, who we rented out for a couple of years at the end of his career.

It's never been our philosophy to get the pulverizers up front. The last time we went that way was the gold rush 40 years ago.

However, we've certainly had wonderful defenses over the years, as you point out in 81, we had a lifetime draft getting Lott, Wright, WIlliamson to go along with Hicks. That 1 HoFer, 1 woulda been HoFer, ecpect for the groin pull, and really good hitter player in WIlliamson. Instant credibility.

But still not the Seattle formula with Mebane, Bryant,Avril, Clemons, etc.

We could use a db draft like that this year.

...sigh...

Gary "Big hands" Jhonson 4x probowler 1980 to 1981
Loui Kelcher - all pro 1979, '80-'81

on the 89-90 teams you had michael carter, kevin f*gan, pete kugler, pierce holt, jim burt. Those were solid and very tough lines. Who can forget Jim Burt knifing into the Denver offensive line and screwing up play after play. MIchael Carter was a powerhouse nose tackle. He had a rare combo of speed and power. 1985 - he had *7* sacks from the nose tackle position.

Now you might have a point with the '81 team. Lawrence pillers and Reese were not that big a name back then. But Where was the NY Defense before Lawrence Taylor? Pretty much last. NY add's Lawrence taylor and it's the number 1 defense the next year. Fred Dean elevated that 49er defensive line from zero to hero that year the way Lawrence did in NY.

Again, keep in mind, I view Haley and Fred Dean as DE's more than drop back traditional OLB's.

Originally posted by thl408:
Hah, buck! You got it with high risk, high loss. I'm with you on that. Perhaps if the opposing offense has Oline issues, turn up the blitz pressure frequency and step out of the norm. For the most part, if pressure can come with 4, then just sprinkle in a blitz here and there.

One of the benefits of the 3-4 is unpredictability with where pressure will come from - who's rushing the QB, who's not. That's not the case with the 49ers.

For sure...just feel like we need a few wrinkles added i.e. overloading Brooks/Aldon on one side. Aldon/Brooks off the LOS roaming back and forth pre-snap looking to shoot an open gap (ala Merriman), some more exotic blitzes esp. off press coverage from the CB or S, less coverage for Willis/Bowman, etc. Add some of these packages to the base defense coupled with a great mix of press and off-coverage and we should be very effective.

Originally posted by thl408:

Okay. You're talking about talent. I'm talking about scheme. I agree the 49ers could use some more talented CBs. I think you'll come away very satisfied this May after the draft.

Schemewise - yes you got my drift, and the point was that you can do a lot more kinds of coverage schemes with more talented players, just as you can do more kinds of blitzing schemes with more talented players. But again, philosophically, you still want to fit talent to scheme. Example: you don't want to draft a Deion to come and run support. He's not that type of player. You'd want a Ronnie Lott to come and play press man and run support. So I think you and I are on the same page on this.

As for this years draft, I'll still not be satisfied if we get a one and done draft regarding our secondary. What I'd like is a long term philosophical change on that end. But yeah, I'll still like it if we go CB, WR, CB, Safety, WR in that order in this years draft. No problems there.

What I see in Fangio is what I see in Harbaugh. Fangio can smell and all pro linebacker 10 miles away the way Harbaugh can on the QB position. What I'd like to see is more of the cam jhonson kinds of trades/drafts. Low round OLB/ILB's that Fangio can develop like Cam, like Bowman, Like Skuta -- then trade them for draft picks like how Baalke traded Cam for a 7th this year (or is it next year?) POint being is that we trade depth for draft picks. I"d love it if we had a draft for the next 7 years that typically went: 1 pick in the first round, 1 pick in the 2nd, 1 pick in the 3rd, 1 pick in the 4th, 1 in the 5th, 3 in the 6th and maybe 4 picks in the 7th. (or something like that - year in and year out).

I'd also like to see first to third round draft capital generally going to the D Line and D backs, and anything less will go to the rest of the other defensive positions. (at least that's what I'd like to see, *generally* from a philosophical point of view). So in other words, between a Patrick Willis or a Ronnie Lott - I'd be drafting Ronnie. Between a Justin Smith and Navarro Bowman, I'd be drafting Justin.

Vic Fangio...
Carolina Panthers defense ranking 1995 ranked 8th
1996 ranked 2nd
1997 ranked 13th
1998 ranked 27th

Indianapolis Colts 1999 ranked 17th
2000 ranked 15th
2001 ranked 31st

Houston Texans 2002 ranked 20th
2003 ranked 27th
2004 ranked 15th
2005 ranked 32nd

Originally posted by LEN-RHODE9er:
Vic Fangio...
Carolina Panthers defense ranking 1995 ranked 8th
1996 ranked 2nd
1997 ranked 13th
1998 ranked 27th

Indianapolis Colts 1999 ranked 17th
2000 ranked 15th
2001 ranked 31st

Houston Texans 2002 ranked 20th
2003 ranked 27th
2004 ranked 15th
2005 ranked 32nd

Niners
2011 - 4th
2012 - 3rd
2013 - 5th



FIRE HEM NOA!!!!

There are always many reasons why teams are good, bad or changing. Here are the top three rounds for the teams mentioned above during Fangio's DCship. Is it all his fault that the D did not stay at the top? Among the defenders taken I don't see many game changers.

Carolina Draft History:
1995
1st: QB--Kerry Collins
1st: CB--Tyrone Poole
1st: OT--Blake Brockermeyer
2nd: DL--Shawn King
1996
1st: RB--Tim Biakabutuka
2nd: WR--Muhsin Muhammad
3rd: RB--Winslow Oliver
1997
1st: WR--Rae Carruth
2nd: S--Mike Minter
3rd--LB--Kinnon Tatum
1998
1st: DL--Jason Peter
3rd: DL--Chuck Wiley
3rd: DL--Mitch Marrow

Indy Colts Draft History (note: from 1995-1998 they took three defensive players in the top three rounds--that's out of 12 picks)
1999
1st: RB--Edgerrin James
2nd: LB--Mike Peterson
3rd: G--Brandon Burlsworth
2000
1st: LB--Rob Morris
2nd: LB--Marcus Washington
3rd: DB--David Macklin
2001
1st: WR--Reggie Wayne
2nd: DB--Idrees Bashir
3rd: DB--Cory Bird

Originally posted by Giedi:
...sigh...

Gary "Big hands" Jhonson 4x probowler 1980 to 1981
Loui Kelcher - all pro 1979, '80-'81

on the 89-90 teams you had michael carter, kevin f*gan, pete kugler, pierce holt, jim burt. Those were solid and very tough lines. Who can forget Jim Burt knifing into the Denver offensive line and screwing up play after play. MIchael Carter was a powerhouse nose tackle. He had a rare combo of speed and power. 1985 - he had *7* sacks from the nose tackle position.

Now you might have a point with the '81 team. Lawrence pillers and Reese were not that big a name back then. But Where was the NY Defense before Lawrence Taylor? Pretty much last. NY add's Lawrence taylor and it's the number 1 defense the next year. Fred Dean elevated that 49er defensive line from zero to hero that year the way Lawrence did in NY.

Again, keep in mind, I view Haley and Fred Dean as DE's more than drop back traditional OLB's.

Oh. I see the problem now. You want to be posting on the San Diego Chargers board. This is the 49er board.

I think you'll find it here: http://forums.chargers.com/

april fools board. ...sigh...

The amount of different coverage calls that Fangio/Donatell uses to combat passing attacks is astounding. I have read Whitner say in the past that the 49ers use a lot of different coverage calls, so there's some player testimony. I wanted to put onto film just how elaborate the 49er's coverage calls are. I selected the Saints game since the 49ers faced a very good passing attack under perfect throwing conditions (indoor). I wanted to pick a game with good throwing conditions so that the teams didn't feel limited in what they wanted to do, this ruled out the GB playoff game. Lots of pics to come.

Below are the plays (highlighted) that will be mentioned. The point of showing this chart is to show just how many different coverage looks Brees had to face to start the game. All the plays in colored highlights are from the 1st quarter.



Orange highlighted play from the playchart: Brees' 1st dropback of the game.

NO spreads the field with 5 players lined up as WRs. 49ers counter with cover1 man. This is one safety playing center field with everyone else is manned up. Bowman, in the middle of the formation, is acting as a spy and has no man coverage assignment. When playing man coverage (5 routes) and rushing 4, there are always 2 defenders with no man coverage assignments that the DC can use to blitz, spy, or play deep zones.


It's a quick pass on a curl route to Graham for +6 yards.

The next pass Brees makes is a screen pass. Since the QB does not have to read coverage post-snap on a screen pass, I omitted it. It looked like cover1 man though. Moving on...

This is the green highlighted play from the play chart: This is Brees' second dropback of the game. Again, I do not count the screen pass mentioned as a dropback since he didn't have to read the defensive backfield.

NO will look to get a high-lo read along the sidelines to Brees' left.
49ers: Quarter Quarter Half coverage. This is a form of cover3 that shifts the deep coverage over to one side. The 3 deep zone defenders will split the deep zones into a quarter field, a quarter field, and a half field. This is done to place more defenders to the side where the offense has more routes being run. The 49ers are gambling that Reid's half deep zone will not be threatened since there is no speed to threaten that side of the formation.

The blue dashes indicate how the WR went into motion. When the WR started is motion, there was a bunch of communication between Rogers/Reid/Whitner. There is no doubt they are making audibles in the coverage to adjust to what NO was doing with their WR in motion. The side of the formation that Carlos Rogers is on has 2 TEs, one of which is an offensive lineman. On the other side of the formation, is Jimmy Graham and a real WR (speed).


I wanted to go a bit deeper into this play to show how well the 49ers defense works together as a unit. Below, Brees is about to use playaction. Notice how Justin is double teamed by the LTackle and LGuard. You can see Skuta not buying the playaction one bit as he starts his backpeddle before Brees even finishes the playaction.


As Brees completes his dropback, Skuts is seen looking behind him to identify who is the threat in his zone. It is important that Skuta continues to "face" Brees so that Brees doesn't get any ideas of throwing over the head of Skuta. Justin has worked off his double team and has chosen to tie up the RB coming out of the backfield. Smart.


Same moment in time as picture above. This is what Brees is looking at. Notice the quarter quarter half (QQH) coverage by the 3 deep defenders. But it's not just a basic QQH coverage call.


The 49ers add pattern matching to the call. Instead of sinking back into his deep zone, Whitner has identified the route in his zone. That route is by Graham. Whitner will now man up on Graham, leaving Brown, the other quarter zone defender to man up on the deep vertical route by the WR. Had this been a basic QQH coverage, Whitner and Brown would have doubled the go route.
Skuta has no fear of being stretched because Justin has wiped out the RB route to the flats. This was supposed to be a vertical stretch along the sideline with 3 routes giving a hi-lo read, but Justin has relieved Skuta of any responsibilities to the flats. Had Skuta had to honor the RB coming to the flats, it would provide a throwing lane to Graham.


Brees throws it away.

This is the pink highlighted play from the play chart. This is Brees' third dropback of the game.

NO tries to get a high-lo read along to Brees' left.
49ers will rush 3, while dropping 8 into coverage to form a cover3 with 5 underneath zone defenders.



Rogers and Wright bump a WR to help throw off the timing. It's interesting to note that Rogers does not bump the WR he lined up acorss from. He jams the wide out instead of the slot WR.


Whitner stays right where he is and doesn't move. Reid slides over to the middle of the field. Brock and Brown are the other deep zone defenders.


Whitner doesn't follow the route that goes right by him because he knows he has a team mate behind him to take the deep route. He identifies the deep in route being ran and jumps it.


Cover3 with 5 underneath defenders. Brees will eventually check downl to PThomas for a failed 3rd down conversion.


Brees can't find an open target. If you're counting, that's three dropbacks, three different coverages. (not counting the screen pass)

This is the blue highlighted play from the play chart.

This is Brees' 6th dropback of the game.

NO tries to get the ball out to the perimeter to get out of the shadows of the end zone. This is a bit of a quick pass and Brees doesn't really have to read coverage, but I'll show it anyway because the 49ers called a coverage that hasn't been seen this game.

49ers will call cover2 zone


The CBs, Brown and Rogers will honor their flat zone responsibilities and let the WR on their side run past them. They know the safeties are back there to provide coverage.


Cover2 zone


Rogers doesn't follow the WR that runs by him and covers the flat. Good tackle. +3 yard gain. If you're counting, that's 6 dropbacks and 4 different coverages that Brees has seen. Although it's debatable whether he actually "saw" this coverage. Point is, the 49ers mix up their coverage calls and try to be unpredictable.

This is the red highlighted play from the play chart. It is Brees 10th dropback of the game (not counting screen passes).

NO will try to attack vertically with Graham.

49ers call cover1 man, but with pattern matching. The players to focus on are Rogers and Whitner. Rogers is lined up over Graham.


As Graham starts his route, Rogers has him in man coverage using outside leverage (Rogers is on the outside shoulder of Graham).Graham's route is about to break inwards. This is a win for Graham.


As soon as Graham's route breaks inwards for a post pattern, Rogers passes coverage over to Whitner. Whitner has inside leverage on Graham and Graham is running an inside breaking route. This is no longer a win for Graham.
Had Graham's route broke outside, Rogers with outside leverage is in position to cover an outside breaking route.


Whitner uses his inside position and successfully forces Brees to move off Graham. Rogers assumes Whitner's deep zone responsibility and is shown here looking around for work to do. This is what handing off coverage is all about. Brees moves from his spot in the pocket.


Focusing just on the coverage. Brees checks down to Sproles after rolling to his right.


So the 1st quarter isn't over. That's 10 dropbacks, 5 different coverage calls. At this point, Brees has no clue what to expect when he drops back. This is what Fangio and Donatell love to do, confuse the QB with elaborate, and varying, coverages. It's not sexy like blitzing the QB, but it buys the pass rush time as the QB hangs onto the ball trying to figure out what he's looking at.

I think it's pretty obvious Fangio is a quality DC. The only guy I'd prefer over Fangio is Phillips, so im pretty happy with #2.