Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Why are people pretending that Fangio had depth on the D-line. He lost Dobbs and Tukuafo before the season started. If he had depth already, why did they spend so much time picking up D-linemen this off season.

Originally posted by GNielsen:
Why are people pretending that Fangio had depth on the D-line. He lost Dobbs and Tukuafo before the season started. If he had depth already, why did they spend so much time picking up D-linemen this off season.

His personal philosophy aside I think this is the biggest reason we saw such little rotation last year, there just wasn't anybody behind our starters to put in. We addressed this issue aggressively this off season though, so we should see a big improvement.

We had options. Ofcourse there would've been a dropoff in production but that's to be expected. RJF barely saw 5 snaps a game. Sopo played maybe 30% of the d snaps. He was a DE so he could rotated in on passing downs and Williams too. Fangio had option but he chose to play Ray,Aldon, and Justin every snap. This is not my observation. Baalke even said Fangio doesn't like to sub.

Let's see... in 2011 our D got it done, but the offense didn't do enough (yea yea, I know, Kyle Williams and whatever else). Still, Niners got to the NFC championships (against Giants).

In 2012 we get to the playoffs and offense puts up more than enough to win SB, but the D gave up too many points.

Good teams prepare/find ways to win. Falcons/Ravens out coached us in the 1st halves of those games. I liked how Fangio made adjustments after halftime in the playoffs/SB last season (a little too late, though).

Well, let's just imagine that Justin/Aldon were NOT playing with injuries... Ahmad was a bit banged up too. That would have changed the outcome of the game. We wouldn't be calling for Fangio's head. Instead, QB pressure was a split second (or longer) off, which exposed our average to poor backfield coverage.

I really don't believe (IMHO) that the depth/rotation was good enough... some may say that better coaching would've sufficed/done a better job with the players available, but I think that's just a matter of opinion. Don't get me wrong because when Justin/Aldon were healthy, the depth and rotation worked most of the time...

In 2011, Niners were good. In 2012, they got better. If "3rd time's a charm" then you know who will be taking home that trophy when it's all said and done...

It's the 3rd year with this staff as a unit in the system, I'll wait till after 2013 season... Fangio is real good, but can improve and needs to.

I'm still a little disappointed that Niners don't hold bragging rights to the flawless SB record anymore. Harbone will make up for that!

Originally posted by KegBert:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by KegBert:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.

Where in his post does he say the team doesn't need to get any better?

He implies it. You can play dumb all you like, but saying we have a top 3 defense, best front 7 and that fangio is still a great dc is implying that we are already good enough.

Here's the thing. We didn't win the superbowl last year, and even if we did, we still have areas that need to be improved. I don't even agree with the OP on this topic but I can see where he is coming from. A lot of people on here want to act like the 49ers can do no wrong. That isn't the case with any NFL team obviously, and since the 49ers have been doing so many things right the past couple of years, people think change isn't necessary. I tend to be a bit more open minded than oh fangio has led a top 3 defense 2 years in a row. Look at all the stars he has on his defense. We had a problem on both sides of the ball in the playoffs. The offense had a problem getting going early but that is to be expected with a young qb. Yeah our defense had their injuries but both aldon and Justin still played and guess what we got torched on defense. Obviously something needs to be changed on defense. Like my thread said I think we need to get a more consistent pass rush from the strongside, but I do think fangio has some things he needs to do a lot better too, and rogers is garbage.


On a side note if our waterboy had kept our players adequately hydrated than we wouldn't be talking about the lack of rotation and our players getting tired. Fire him!

No, that's what you read into it. All he said is you can't blame not upgrading the CB spot on Vic, that's Trent and the FO's decision.

Again you are putting words into peoples mouths to support your argument. I don't think anyone is under the impression that we can just stand pat and be ok. You're either getting better or getting worse right? It's almost unanimously agreed upon that Fangio needs to implement a better rotation among the front 7, which I agree with.

Our two best pass rushers where playing hurt at the end of the year. Justin Smith had a partially torn triceps tendon and Aldon had to have surgery on his labrum, those are significant injuries and I commend them for gutting it out but they where noticeably hampered. That's not Vics fault either.

Brooks is a fantastic OLB for what we ask him to do but I agree he is not the best pass rusher. I think we will use Lemo as a situational 3rd down pass rusher similar to Aldon in his first year to help out with that though.

The funny thing is, nobody complained about our pass rush (or the D in general) until the Smith brothers where injured. I think getting those 2 guys back healthy, along with a better rotation (to keep them healthy), is going to be huge for our D. We have added some good talent to our front 7 in Lemo, Dorsey and Tank so hopefully Vic won't be as hesitant in subbing those guys in.

Yeah nobody complained about our pass rush because our pass rush is good. Not arguing that our pass rush was sub-par just that even though it is great it can be a lot better still.

Everybody keeps bringing up injuries but guess what injuries are apart of the game and we are a strong enough team that we should've been able to get through it. A better rotation isn't going to stop those guys getting hurt.

Again brooks is a good solid player, but I think there are things that he doesn't do well (rushing the passer or dropping back in coverage).

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC. < That is my problem right there. A nitpicker is someone who finds fault with insignificant details and he said he hated them. Then he stated we have a top 3 d ect. implying that he hates the fact that someone is nitpicking about one (or all) of those things.(Fangio) I, like the OP have a difference of opinion.

"Actually Sopo played DE before his move to NT."

Yeah as a one dimensional run stuffer.

I think the reason why there was no rotation on the DL is because none of the backups have any Pass Rush skills, which Fangio likes. Everyone knows that the starting DL made the secondary look great and when both smiths went down and the backups came in that exposed how vulnerable the secondary is. They drafted pass rushers from Tank to the Lemon guy ( Cant spell his last name ).

No wonder every team's fans call us whiners! We have one of the best coordinators in the league and some of you are still crying about wanting him fired. Fangio is the ticket. Some of you know less than dick about football I swear. Fangio is here for how ever long he wants to stay.

I agree Vic didnt have much to work with in regards to line depth at the end of the season, but this year should be different , we are deeper and younger and have the ability to play fast and mean

Originally posted by NinerG94:

No wonder every team's fans call us whiners! We have one of the best coordinators in the league and some of you are still crying about wanting him fired. Fangio is the ticket. Some of you know less than dick about football I swear. Fangio is here for how ever long he wants to stay.

Then explain his empirical evidence of letting his Def rankings get worse every year he coaches a team?

Explain to me how we have multiple pro bowlers at every level of the defense and yet we give up 30+ points a game in the playoffs?

Explain to me why he doesn't adjust when it's obvious his schemes are figured out by other OCs?

My argument is that we can improve at DC by using more schemes and showing more/varied fronts. In the days of analytics, most teams can and will scheme versus our tendencies. I'm not whining, I'm just saying we can and should be better on defense than we were. His tendency to stick with the same scheme, even after knowing it wasn't good enough last year, is concerning when we're in the middle of a Super Bowl window.

He is the weakest link. If I was Baalke, I would always be looking to improve the weakest part of my team. And for the record, I never liked him. I knew we had a legit defense the day Willis stepped on the field. We should be better than we showed. I think most people will agree on that

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by KegBert:

Originally posted by JimDrinkAMiller:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment.

I hate nitpickers. We have a legit top 3 defense, and the best front 7 in the game. Fangio is still a great DC.

Your right our team doesn't need to get any better. We are the best from our front office down to our waterboy.

Where in his post does he say the team doesn't need to get any better?

He implies it. You can play dumb all you like, but saying we have a top 3 defense, best front 7 and that fangio is still a great dc is implying that we are already good enough.

No, he does not imply that our team does not need to get any better. You are inferring that, and inferred that incorrectly.

AB implied that team needs to improve at corner back and that weakness at corner back lies with the front office. Here is what AB said.

"who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment."

That statement not only implies that we need to improve in the defensive backfield but that the front office also needs to do better work.

AB's statement that about our overall defense or our front seven do not eradicate his implicit criticisms of FO, our cornerbacks, and the signing of Nnamdi.

When you told a fellow poster that that he can continue to play dumb all he wants, you are basically insulting him. Ironically, that fellow poster understood what AB said better than you did. He was correct, AB never said (or implied) that team does not need to get better.

May I suggest that you might consider spending less time insulting your fellow posters, and more time working your basic reading comprehension.

Originally posted by buck:

No, he does not imply that our team does not need to get any better. You are inferring that, and inferred that incorrectly.

AB implied that team needs to improve at corner back and that weakness at corner back lies with the front office. Here is what AB said.

"who would you rather see at CB? Don't blame Fangio for that, the FO hasn't decided they needed to upgrade. Nnamdi isn't an upgrade at the moment."

That statement not only implies that we need to improve in the defensive backfield but that the front office also needs to do better work.

AB's statement that about our overall defense or our front seven do not eradicate his implicit criticisms of FO, our cornerbacks, and the signing of Nnamdi.

When you told a fellow poster that that he can continue to play dumb all he wants, you are basically insulting him. Ironically, that fellow poster understood what AB said better than you did. He was correct, AB never said (or implied) that team does not need to get better.

May I suggest that you might consider spending less time insulting your fellow posters, and more time working your basic reading comprehension.

I applaud your defending fellow knowledgable posters but you know as well as i do that new posters always know more then any of us all combined.

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:


One DE goes down and we're giving up 30+ points a game in the playoffs (to very good teams, I will add)

We lost more than one defensive end. We lost one of the best defensive ends in the game.

We did not lose Aldon Smith, but he played most of the last half of season with an injury that required surgery.

Parys Haralson, our primary back up at OLB, was lost for whole season, or close to whole season.

We were also not playing with two of back ups on the defensive line-Demarcus Dobbs and Will Tukuafu.

This is not to say that Fangio should not have done a better job, but all of the problems on defense can not be laid on his doorstep.

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:

He's just SO SLOW to adjust. He's the literal weakest link on our team with Snyder (puke) a close second. In this interview, he's still spouting off a reluctance to let younger DLs earn their stripes in games, while also advocating Carlos Rodgers supreme slot corner abilities.

He clearly has to willing to rotate our personal more frequently.

We need to make defensive adjustments sooner, although his half time adjustments were good in the play offs.
But, those adjustments should have come sooner.

His talking about positively about Carlos Rogers with the media does not bother me.
It might not have necessary, but I would be upset if he criticized any player in public.

Originally posted by Big_Daddy: I haven't been shy about my dislike for Vic Failgio...

When you're in the middle of a Super Bowl window, why keep him around???

Thoughts?

Your dislike for Fangio is obvious. If you are suggesting that he be fired, I do not agree.

I happen to think that our coaching staff, and Harbaugh in particular, needs to do a much better job at getting the team ready to play from the opening kick off.

The special teams coaches need to eliminate errors, such as kick off returns for touchdowns and the two fourth down fake punts pulled by the Rams.

Harbaugh needs to spend more time thinking about the team and the game and less time yelling at the refs.

The offensive coaches have to get the plays called earlier, work with Kaep on reading the defenses quicker, and improve play calling and adding more offensive diversity, such some screen passes

I think that this coaching staff has done a good job for two years. They should continue to work together to make the needed improvements.

I think they will and I am more than willing to wait and see how much they improve next year.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Tough to have any pass rush threat when Justin and Aldon were hurt, and had no one else producing. Can't always be the coaches fault, need to take some heat on the players too. Brooks isnt the pass rush force he should be.

Originally posted by GNielsen:
Why are people pretending that Fangio had depth on the D-line. He lost Dobbs and Tukuafo before the season started. If he had depth already, why did they spend so much time picking up D-linemen this off season.

Lost Haralson, Dobbs and Tukuafo, J and A Smith played with injuries...and the team didn't play as well? Go figure...damn coaches! People tend to remember that Justin was playing with one arm, but they forget that Aldon was also playing with an injury (torn labrum in week 12).

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Tough to have any pass rush threat when Justin and Aldon were hurt, and had no one else producing. Can't always be the coaches fault, need to take some heat on the players too. Brooks isnt the pass rush force he should be.

Originally posted by GNielsen:
Why are people pretending that Fangio had depth on the D-line. He lost Dobbs and Tukuafo before the season started. If he had depth already, why did they spend so much time picking up D-linemen this off season.

Lost Haralson, Dobbs and Tukuafo, J and A Smith played with injuries...and the team didn't play as well? Go figure...damn coaches! People tend to remember that Justin was playing with one arm, but they forget that Aldon was also playing with an injury (torn labrum in week 12).

Brooks was hurt late last season too and is still on the sideline to date. So that's him, Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, Parys Haralson, Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu, Darius Fleming and Cam Johnson. That's VERY significant. And who knows how many others were manning-up as well down that same stretch.

That said, there is always room for improvement and these areas SHOULD be talked about whether it's a ST coach, player, HC, OC or DC.

My only real concern with Fangio is his scheme. Forcing Willis/Bowman into coverage as much as they are isn't exactly playing to their play-making abilities. 3rd and 3 and you've got your DB's 10 yards off while bringing pressure to one side? Matching up Whitner on ANYONE inside the RZ for two straight years? Slow starts on occasion? Late adjustments? Predictable alignments? Not moving the 4 best LBers in the game around to create mismatches is a crime. The technique of the DB's not playing the QB but waiting for the ball to arrive in the WR's hands to THEN play the ball? Very poor. We totally forgot about the undercutting route that got Rogers his big contract all year. How about a CB or S blitz?

We are a top 5 defense b/c of the players we have and their dedication to being the best. The truth is you can put them in a 4-3, 4-6, cover 2, etc. and they'd be a top defense.

I do think it's fair to objectively review the weaknesses of Fangio w/o blasting him. He's done a very nice job and he's got a ton more weapons this year (see last year's injury list). And don't be surprised to see Mangini helping him as much as Roman. ManFang.