Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

Originally posted by NCommand:

LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

Nothing is ever the coaching staffs fault with this team

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

Nothing is ever the coaching staffs fault with this team

Wrong. Nothing is ever the players' fault with this team. It is stacked and should go 19-0 while going puntless on offense.

I think Fangio gets the best results when he attacks the quarterback. Look at both the KC and STL games. When both quarterbacks had time to throw, they took advantage of our LB / secondary. After adjusting to the poor line penetration and dialing up the blitz, both Alex Smith and Austin Davis became non-factors in their respective games.

Vic miscalculated with Manning. It may have been because Manning was carving our secondary, or maybe it was because the score got out of hand...but I did not see the same pressure being applied to him as some of the other quarterbacks we've played this season.

Hope he learns that the best way to attack a non-mobile quarterback is to attack them head-on with blitz giving them little to no time to find an open receiver.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

Nothing is ever the coaching staffs fault with this team

Noooooo! Not at all. Not possible. The man doing the analysis? Willie McGinnis. Another guy, like Harrison, who's had a little success over Manning. With all due respect to our NT analysts, I have to go with their game plan on this one. Who cares if we "tried" quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone, etc. with 7-8 on the backend. What's the common demonimator in all of these coverages?

Originally posted by NCommand:

LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

You Are 100000% Correct and so is Rodney Harrison. That had to be the worst called & prepared for defensive gameplan vs a peyton offense I ever seen. rush 3 and soft 8 in coverage?? hahaha that was so pedestrian of a gameplan and a horrible one to say the least.

Shoulda rushed 5 constantly and pressed 4 in coverage with 2 safeties over the top and make Peyton earn his yards more harder then they did. I was so frustrated watching Denver go up and down at WILL against the 49ers. It felt like Super Bowl 24 but a role reversal.

I blame Fangio and the Oline for that loss and mostly Fangio.

Originally posted by thl408:
Wrong. Nothing is ever the players' fault with this team. It is stacked and should go 19-0 while going puntless on offense.

Wrong thread. This is about Fangio and the defensive philosophy and game plan this game.

But re: offense, to be fair, we do THE most stacked roster in the NFL. Yes, CK is still learning and showing some great stuff...still has a ways to go...the OL absolutely blows in the scheme we're running (pass protection in the spread offense with intermediate+ passing game and running out of the Pistol). 7 points against a prevent defense at the end of the first half is unacceptable esp. WHEN you are trying to score to get back in the game b/c you're already down 21.

Game planning, bad game planning...

the question is, do we even have the players, the RIGHT players that fit in Fangio's Defense???

Is he getting supplied w/the wrong type of players??

I know about Fangio's dislike of using young guys unless it's a blow out, but do we have the necessary recipe to cook the main menu??

do we have the right DL to play 3-4??

do we have the right DBs to play such read n react coverage??

or are we just forcing an issue here??

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

You Are 100000% Correct and so is Rodney Harrison. That had to be the worst called & prepared for defensive gameplan vs a peyton offense I ever seen. rush 3 and soft 8 in coverage?? hahaha that was so pedestrian of a gameplan and a horrible one to say the least.

Shoulda rushed 5 constantly and pressed 4 in coverage with 2 safeties over the top and make Peyton earn his yards more harder then they did. I was so frustrated watching Denver go up and down at WILL against the 49ers. It felt like Super Bowl 24 but a role reversal.

I blame Fangio and the Oline for that loss and mostly Fangio.

That said, I genuinely love Fangio but I'm willing to admit when he had a poor game plan. Period. The same goes for HaRoman. You'll find props to both coordinators when they do a fine job and put our players in the best position to win and utilize our talent and win the chess match. Even in game plans that are poor, I'll still point out the great play designs they had via work from our NT analysts. There is credence to "player execution" but a good coordinator will never default to that...he'll say, "I didn't have a great game plan today and I didn't give my players the best chance to win." That's taking responsibility esp. if he's genuine (and Fangio usually is). Has anyone interviewed him yet? I have a feeling he'd put a lot of blame on himself.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Noooooo! Not at all. Not possible. The man doing the analysis? Willie McGinnis. Another guy, like Harrison, who's had a little success over Manning. With all due respect to our NT analysts, I have to go with their game plan on this one. Who cares if we "tried" quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone, etc. with 7-8 on the backend. What's the common demonimator in all of these coverages?

which is why we don't do press jamming man in our 3-4 a lot of the time, lol

Originally posted by 9moon:
Game planning, bad game planning...

the question is, do we even have the players, the RIGHT players that fit in Fangio's Defense???

Is he getting supplied w/the wrong type of players??

I know about Fangio's dislike of using young guys unless it's a blow out, but do we have the necessary recipe to cook the main menu??

do we have the right DL to play 3-4??

do we have the right DBs to play such read n react coverage??

or are we just forcing an issue here??

Fair question. Baalke has brought in Nnamdi, Cook, Culliver, Johnson, Cooper, Brock, Cox, etc...guys who excel at press/jam and love to be physical. Donatell/Fangio have them exclusively working in off coverage and that's it. The off coverage schemes are very intricate and very effective with the current personnel. Bethea is best served around the LOS in play diagnosis (run support) and is one of the best blitzing S's in the game. Do we use him in this capacity? Single-high S? Do we all think Reid has the speed, range, IQ and desire to play this role well when called upon? I think so!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Noooooo! Not at all. Not possible. The man doing the analysis? Willie McGinnis. Another guy, like Harrison, who's had a little success over Manning. With all due respect to our NT analysts, I have to go with their game plan on this one. Who cares if we "tried" quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone, etc. with 7-8 on the backend. What's the common demonimator in all of these coverages?

which is why we don't do press jamming man in our 3-4 a lot of the time, lol

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Noooooo! Not at all. Not possible. The man doing the analysis? Willie McGinnis. Another guy, like Harrison, who's had a little success over Manning. With all due respect to our NT analysts, I have to go with their game plan on this one. Who cares if we "tried" quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone, etc. with 7-8 on the backend. What's the common demonimator in all of these coverages?

which is why we don't do press jamming man in our 3-4 a lot of the time, lol

. because of the fact it's so commonly done as you 'listed' in 4-3 base defenses based off what you saw. still find it amusing how you gush over that fantasy like it'd work in the game

^^^ You worry me defenderDX. Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I won't respond to you anymore directly, OK? And I ask the same of you...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I was just watching NFLN and they were describing how you defeat Manning. You'll never guess what the game plan was...queue Rodney Harrison's quote.

4-3 defense, man press coverage at the LOS (esp. jam) which allows your pessure to get there and don't be afraid to bring pressure up the gut as well in conjunction with that man, tight, press coverage at the LOS. Of course, they were only showing highlights of 4-3 teams like Seattle, Indy, Jets, etc. But you get the idea.

What did we do? Drop 8, "rush" (using this loosely) 3 = zero pass rush. 22 for 26 with 3 dropped passes and only played 3 quarters. 42 points.

There is no way a SF coordinator could have a poor game plan, right? #blamepersonnel

Nothing is ever the coaching staffs fault with this team

Noooooo! Not at all. Not possible. The man doing the analysis? Willie McGinnis. Another guy, like Harrison, who's had a little success over Manning. With all due respect to our NT analysts, I have to go with their game plan on this one. Who cares if we "tried" quarters, cover 2 zone, cover 2 man, cover 1 man, cover 1 lurk, cover 3 zone, cover 6 zone, etc. with 7-8 on the backend. What's the common demonimator in all of these coverages?

I have never said that I can think of better game plan than these analysts/former players you see on TV. What I have done is defended Fangio's gameplan. You are the one saying Fangio should have done this, Fangio should have done that. With all due respect to you, but I have to go with the gameplan of a DC that has legit NFL credibility, and longevity, over a fan with 10 angry fingers. Is he infallible? Of course not. But given the hand he was dealt last Sunday, I personally don't see a clear cut better method to slowing down Manning. A bunch of second string LBs, run stuffing DL, and solid DBs isn't enough to stop Manning. If you want to take Rodney Harrison's words to heart, take to heart how he said it takes more than scheme to beat Manning. You need players - good players. Make that excellent players.

If you check out some of the plays in the Broncos Film Thread you'll see how badly the 49ers got burned when they blitzed and didn't get to Manning. I've already stated why I don't think playing press bump and run would have resulted in better results earlier in this thread. You disagree. I respect that.