Analysis from Seahawks Game coaches film

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
A lot of the decision making for whether it's AR or PS also has to do with the massive amount of preparation the staff does during the week to get to know the tendencies of the opposition. I remember seeing a snippet of an installation video from Bill Walsh where he says, "if we go in this formation on this down we know that this guy(points to the MLB) has to cover Roger[Craig] out of the backfield and that's a win for us".

So just because we're running AR plays is not a bad thing. Tons of teams run those kind of plays all the time. The Packers do it on a lot of plays; and they have Aaron Rodgers for a QB....

You are entirely correct buddy, we're just getting caught in the legacy of the old discussion from Panthers/Saints time about the 1 man designated plays. A few people have gone on about Kap failing to go through progressions when those kind of plays were called, a few of us (myself included) were saying that essentially he had no progressions to make because it was a 1 man designated play and the other potential options were on decoys or blocking. Don't get too hung up on it

What has been great in these threads is someone showing a balanced view and showing Kap going through progressions and making good plays and sometimes not doing that and making a bad play.

The important thing is that in the last few games perhaps because of the return of Crabs, we've seen more demonstrations of Kap doing the right things and the trend has been positive. He is demonstrating more pocket presence, progression reading and displaying the maturation process although he's not perfect yet.

Ok fair enough, I haven't reviewed all of the Saints or Panthers game yet. Personally, I think it's better for G-Ro and Co. to give Kaep more half field reads or one man reads. It frees him up to play ball a little more. While those wide open passing attacks look great when they work, they don't fit our identity at all. We don't have the vertical threat receivers those teams do and we're not build to go 4 and 5 receivers out. We're built to run the ball and work our PA off that. It worked last game and they won.

Agreed, I think it's a real need in the draft to get a WR that can do that. We miss Moss and Walker in that respect and we haven't replaced them with players who have the same skill set.

Bravo on post #232. Just a bad job at defense recognition. This is in week 2 when none of us had any idea that the passing game was about to go down a very bumpy road.

Here is a play from the NO game where Kap shows the inability to read leverage. Very similar to how he was unable to read leverage on the Boldin route (the play you broke down in post #232).

Below is the pre-snap alignment. Notice the CB is shading the inside step on Boldin. This suggests the CB is denying an inside release. Due to parallax (off centered camera view), it might not be obvious that the CB is playing the inside step, so I drew a blue line from hash mark to has mark as a reference to see how much closer the CB is to the inside portion of the field.

If Boldin is running a route that breaks inside, then Boldin is defeated. Look somewhere else. Perhaps Baldwin who is running a comeback route versus loose over the top technique (bottom of screen).



Kap forces the pass. Boldin said "F it, I can't win this route" and looks as though he gave up on the route. What bothered me the most is that Boldin, and the CB, was very close to Kap. He should have easily recognized the technique the CB was playing with.

^^^ this looks like a PS play...all 4 receivers run out AND have their heads turned looking for the ball. All 4 seem to be legit receiving options even if CK chose wrong.

By just the HUGE cushion on the CB below, HE (Williams?) s/h been the option.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
What was the down and distance of this play. I notice EVERYONE running essentially the same route - about 7 yards.

It's 1st and 10. The 49ers are in a hurry up offense trying to get some points before the end of the half.

Originally posted by thl408:
It's 1st and 10. The 49ers are in a hurry up offense trying to get some points before the end of the half.

Then even MORE reason to hit Baldwin/Williams(?)...hit him quick, get some RAC and get out of bounds.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That was our issue since Week 2. All-or-nothing. Now, we're seeing much more chemistry between CK and Boldin, Crabtree and VD (alone). Those guys are very good at ad libbing and making a play for CK if that AR is covered (or he doesn't pull the trigger). Teams can easily key in on 1 or 2 guys...now they can't! So suddenly these ad lib plays are going for TD's and big gains like we've seen the past two games. Crabtree is the reason!

agreed, so the problem is stop making it ar1 plays. which i agree with.
no more decoys everyone has a purpose and position and he knows going into the play that these are real options based on coverage he can change who his 1st read will be before the snap based on coverage.

i.e. 1st read by play call is boldin.. goes to the line sees the coverage notices mismatch with vd.. does not change the play call but knows that based on the route that vd will be open if the coverage is read correctly. snaps it looks boldin's way as planned, he's covered as he thought, waits..tosses it to vd for the completion.

i think these are things he can do consistently if given the chance i just wish they would expand the offense so that the production can expand with it

Here's another example from early in the 3rd quarter where Kaep fails on his full progression. It's a PS passing play, all the receivers turn to look for the ball and are options, Kaep simply misses the one guy who's open.


They're running mirroring route combo's on each side. Miller was motioned out wide. Both outside receivers run curls while the inside receivers run corner routes. Seattle shows an off man -1 look, but you know it's zone because the LB is out on Crab. There's no way they're putting a LB on Crabtree in the slot. Kaep should recognize this immediately at the LOS. So his read should be pretty simple, watch the safety first, does he shade left or right, then look to the curl zone defender, does he drop with the corner route or squat?



You can see Davis on the corner route draws the attention of two defenders with the curl defender flowing with Vernon up the seam. The safety rotated over towards Crabtree and it leaves Miller wide open



Kaep did get pressured on this play but he had room to step up in the pocket and hit Miller(Chancellor hadn't even turned back from covering Vernon at this point. Instead, he takes off and gains 6 yds. Not a bad play but, poor progression recognition. Could've been 1st down instead of 2nd down we failed to convert the 1st down on this series.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That was our issue since Week 2. All-or-nothing. Now, we're seeing much more chemistry between CK and Boldin, Crabtree and VD (alone). Those guys are very good at ad libbing and making a play for CK if that AR is covered (or he doesn't pull the trigger). Teams can easily key in on 1 or 2 guys...now they can't! So suddenly these ad lib plays are going for TD's and big gains like we've seen the past two games. Crabtree is the reason!

agreed, so the problem is stop making it ar1 plays. which i agree with.
no more decoys everyone has a purpose and position and he knows going into the play that these are real options based on coverage he can change who his 1st read will be before the snap based on coverage.

i.e. 1st read by play call is boldin.. goes to the line sees the coverage notices mismatch with vd.. does not change the play call but knows that based on the route that vd will be open if the coverage is read correctly. snaps it looks boldin's way as planned, he's covered as he thought, waits..tosses it to vd for the completion.

i think these are things he can do consistently if given the chance i just wish they would expand the offense so that the production can expand with it

Here's another example from early in the 3rd quarter where Kaep fails on his full progression. It's a PS passing play, all the receivers turn to look for the ball and are options, Kaep simply misses the one guy who's open.


They're running mirroring route combo's on each side. Miller was motioned out wide. Both outside receivers run curls while the inside receivers run corner routes. Seattle shows an off man -1 look, but you know it's zone because the LB is out on Crab. There's no way they're putting a LB on Crabtree in the slot. Kaep should recognize this immediately at the LOS. So his read should be pretty simple, watch the safety first, does he shade left or right, then look to the curl zone defender, does he drop with the corner route or squat?



You can see Davis on the corner route draws the attention of two defenders with the curl defender flowing with Vernon up the seam. The safety rotated over towards Crabtree and it leaves Miller wide open



Kaep did get pressured on this play but he had room to step up in the pocket and hit Miller(Chancellor hadn't even turned back from covering Vernon at this point. Instead, he takes off and gains 6 yds. Not a bad play but, poor progression recognition. Could've been 1st down instead of 2nd down we failed to convert the 1st down on this series.

I'd like to echo the many thanks in here for taking the time to do this for us all!

Just with 4 lined up, I could tell instantly it was a PS play. And I love them for 2 reasons 1) It puts more onus in CK's abilities and 2) It gives him more true options (and b/c these are deeper routes, they leave the underneath WIDE OPEN).

This was a very common theme this game, no doubt. And my God, if he hits any of them (Gore, Miller, Hunter or even McDonald) there is nobody even in the area code. On a PS once he goes through his progressions (left-to-right) and nobody is there (should take the full 3 seconds), he HAS to look for the outlets (whether on the run or staying in the pocket). This, I'm praying is the next phase in coaching. Would you agree?

Originally posted by NCommand:
You know, that's an interesting point. Most of the time, esp. if they have more "active" parts in getting the AR the ball, they aren't even LOOKING back at the QB, are on the other side of the field, walking, standing there, still blocking out a guy, etc. This passing game makes it simple for CK and receivers know their part. The next phase if incorporating more PS passing plays where CK truly has to read a coverage presnap and in-play and choose the bext option. But even with these AR routes, coaching needs to focus on the decoys...even if you are the non-AR, keep your eyes in the backfield as much as possible and be redy to break out of your role.

i think he can handle it personally. i don't think it's something he can't do consistently i think it's something that they just like to do.

even with the alex smith play that was provided. those types of reads and calls weren't made until a year and a half in with him being under center.

the passing offense opened up exactly a year and a half after alex was under center... so did they reboot and do the same thing with colin? and did colin have to go through those things this season? i think that might be it.. or close to being why... not ability just coaches introducing their concepts to him on the field and then finally letting him go out there and do what we know he can do

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Again, every team has plays with decoys and progression reads and 1 man designed plays. Decoy routes are part of the game. I remember a press conference with Peyton Manning talking about an INT he threw and he said, "well we were supposed to have a seam route on the play to hold the safety over but we ran the wrong route from the slot and so the safety was able to jump the outside route and make the pick".
We have those plays built into our offense for progression reads(see my analysis of AS 5th read play), It's on the QB to move through his progressions and not fixate on one guy. I'll show here a play from week 2 against Seattle where he fails in his progression



Here Seattle shows press man-1 coverage. They stick with it and keep the MLB to spy Kaep. From the snap he should see the receiver at the bottom is beat, the corner has outside leverage on an out route Boldin's getting jammed hard - he's out, The corner is playing off coverage on Vernon running the go - he's out. His two options by this point are McDonald(ideal cause McDonald has inside leverage on an inside route) or Gore on an outlet



Form this angle you can see Kaep has room to step up in the pocket, and hit McDonald coming across the middle. He should anticipate the opening in the defense as the LB on the right will flow with Gore out of the backfield. Instead you can see his eyes are glued to Boldin



You can see here how McDonald is uncovering because of his inside leverage. Yet, Kaep is still staring down Boldin and not stepping up in the pocket, he's about to get sacked. The T Davis did a good job of pushing the DE upfield but Kaep didn't climb the pocket.



you can see here how Boldin was covered, the safety was rotating away from McDonald and McDonald had room to run. Kaep get's sacked trying to run out left.

Instead of being 3rd and manageable or even 1st and 10 it's 3rd and forever.
We are seeing this get better in his game, but, it's almost identical to the type of play I first highlighted from last sunday.

understood. that its a process but my point is that he's ready to do those things now.
he grew so much within this season and ran different styels

and my problem isn't with having those types of plays in the offense, i understand that it is a part.
my problem is the % of the plays that are designed for this purpose.
an ar1 call at a specific time based on tendencies and match ups that have revealed themselves during the game totally for that.

every other time we need multiple options multiple progressions and everything of the sort.

i think kap is way better now than he was in week 2.
i also think the plan is way better now than it was in week 2.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'd like to echo the many thanks in here for taking the time to do this for us all!

Just with 4 lined up, I could tell instantly it was a PS play. And I love them for 2 reasons 1) It puts more onus in CK's abilities and 2) It gives him more true options (and b/c these are deeper routes, they leave the underneath WIDE OPEN).

This was a very common theme this game, no doubt. And my God, if he hits any of them (Gore, Miller, Hunter or even McDonald) there is nobody even in the area code. On a PS once he goes through his progressions (left-to-right) and nobody is there (should take the full 3 seconds), he HAS to look for the outlets (whether on the run or staying in the pocket). This, I'm praying is the next phase in coaching. Would you agree?

I would definitely agree. If he can learn where his checkdowns are, it keeps the offense on schedule. It sets up your deep routes. I know it's a little easier for me to sit here and play armchair QB cause I'm not the one wit 300 pounders chasing me down as I'm trying to recognize these things too. He's getting there, I would just like him to be a little farther along when we're trying to make a super bowl run.

Some people earlier had asked why some of our zone read plays got blown up. Here's on that I'll highlight what happened. You'll see, it's not one thing the offense or defense did it's a combination of things.


This play had several fails on it. First, the DE is so wide if he changes the play and motions davis over they have the room to get lead play off tackle. With Davis leading the way on #53 and Goodwin hitting Wright on the 2nd level. Anyways, they don't, they're going to leave the DE unblocked and Staley is going to come down for half a second on the DT to help Snyder and then try and get to the 2nd level. Davis comes around as a lead blocker and Kaep reads the DE



You can see the read was correct, the DE smashed down on the RB, Staley is trying to get to the 2nd level and Davis is coming around to lead for Kaep



Staley isn't able to get the LB in time(partially cause the LB closed quick) and so you have 3 guys there to block 1 defender leaving the OLB free on Kaepernick.



Kaep tries to get away but gets tackled for a 7 yard loss. This was on 3rd and 2. Kaep really should've audibled to a lead play, they only needed 2 yards. Also, on the zone read, Staley probably didn't need to give Snyder help, Snyder had a good angle on the DT, if he doesn't take that half step he seals off the LB and Davis can kick out the OLB. There were fails on multiple levels.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, the back-to-back ones in the first half almost had that feeling from Roman like, "OK CK, here you go...4 WR's, shot gun, have at it...what? Both incomplete to Manningham. Done!"

So good to see we tried again. I love them! What was the play clock on this play so I can hopefully review? I only have the NFL Replay for this one...

that's a big point to make as well for passing and running.
sticking with it in concept.
we go away from both at times for strange reasons whether they're working or not. sometimes we make adjustments that don't even need to be made
and then other times we refuse to adjust when clearly the next option would make the defense the other team is playing is useless.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I would definitely agree. If he can learn where his checkdowns are, it keeps the offense on schedule. It sets up your deep routes. I know it's a little easier for me to sit here and play armchair QB cause I'm not the one wit 300 pounders chasing me down as I'm trying to recognize these things too. He's getting there, I would just like him to be a little farther along when we're trying to make a super bowl run.

Some people earlier had asked why some of our zone read plays got blown up...

Kaep really should've audibled to a lead play, they only needed 2 yards.

For sure! I'll be watching more for it next game.

Fantastic snap shots on the epic fail (and well played by the defense). I'm wondering if something we are doing is tipping these plays off (or film study of down and distance).

BTW: How much freedom do you envision CK having at the LOS? It's 100% speculation on my part but I'm guessing, at most, 2 running and 2 passing plays? With just seconds up at the LOS, I'm guessing we go with our primary play the majority of the time?

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
that's a big point to make as well for passing and running.
sticking with it in concept.
we go away from both at times for strange reasons whether they're working or not. sometimes we make adjustments that don't even need to be made
and then other times we refuse to adjust when clearly the next option would make the defense the other team is playing is useless.

THIS topic is one for Roman himself (in the Roman thread). Haha

Originally posted by NCommand:
For sure! I'll be watching more for it next game.

Fantastic snap shots on the epic fail (and well played by the defense). I'm wondering if something we are doing is tipping these plays off (or film study of down and distance).

BTW: How much freedom do you envision CK having at the LOS? It's 100% speculation on my part but I'm guessing, at most, 2 running and 2 passing plays? With just seconds up at the LOS, I'm guessing we go with our primary play the majority of the time?

As far as I understand from everything I've read and heard, he has two options almost every time, plus the option to call a new play altogether.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
For sure! I'll be watching more for it next game.

Fantastic snap shots on the epic fail (and well played by the defense). I'm wondering if something we are doing is tipping these plays off (or film study of down and distance).

BTW: How much freedom do you envision CK having at the LOS? It's 100% speculation on my part but I'm guessing, at most, 2 running and 2 passing plays? With just seconds up at the LOS, I'm guessing we go with our primary play the majority of the time?

As far as I understand from everything I've read and heard, he has two options almost every time, plus the option to call a new play altogether.

Oh, I hadn't heard the bolded part! That could be good news right there.