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I think Kaep came into this game high off of his Dallas performance. That coupled with the whooping he handed this team last time we played them, idk maybe watching espn and hearing all the pundits pick us for the win. He came in cocky it worked at first and than he started to ignore the fundamentals. He let them back into the game and staryed trying to force the issue. Greg Cossel or whatever his name is can write as many articles as he wants. Kaep can play the qb position and play it well. He just has to be patient and respect what NFL defenses can do.
Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Lets call it like it is. Kap is taking too Long to read coverage and is holding the ball TOOOO Long. He needs a quicker release.

His release is what it is at this point so the quickest way to solve the problem is speeding up his progression reads. He is progressing through his options more and hopefully he can speed up that process without increasing mistakes.
So glad you showed those two sacks by Martin...in both cases, CK had 3 seconds to throw and clearly, he had enough time to find his open receiver who was open in both cases. Martin was facing their best speed rusher that night and it didn't seem like to me, Boone was firing out to help him as much as Looney did in there...and we didn't help him much with a TE/RB-chip when they started getting hot and bringing the heat even more. Adjustments like these are critical. It seems like we struggled making adjustments all game. On the flip side, the Bears HAD to make constant adjustments as they lost so many players and were down, they just flat out went for it while we went into the usual turtle-heading mode.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 17, 2014 at 9:25 AM ]
Originally posted by ltrain:
Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Lets call it like it is. Kap is taking too Long to read coverage and is holding the ball TOOOO Long. He needs a quicker release.

His release is what it is at this point so the quickest way to solve the problem is speeding up his progression reads. He is progressing through his options more and hopefully he can speed up that process without increasing mistakes.

I agree...I think, schematically, we can give CK more help with shorter and multiple routes. Right now, it seems like we are still heavily reliant on the intermediate/deeper passing game (little to no short or deep game) which takes longer to develop WHILE defenses are selling out and run blitzing us stuffing us on predictable first down while adding heat to the OL/CK and putting us in many 2nd and 3rd and longs (penalties don't help either).

At this stage of his development, I'd almost coach him to look to the deeper primary receiver and then if not there, immediately come back to the check-down and pick up SOME positive yards. Or even make these shorter routes THE primary receiver. Ellington, Gore, Hyde, Miller, McDonald, Carrier, etc. are going to be a mismatch either 1on1 or will be completely uncovered (often) and should at least pick up positive yards to help open up the playbook on 2nd/3rd downs.

Right now, I don't feel like our scheme is helping CK much...coaches have to recognize when he's amped up to start a game and is throwing high, behind and inaccurate to start games. Give him some simple passes in the middle of the field and calm him down. Situational awareness.

Right now it looks like the exact same offense as last year and teams, even with 3rd stringers in there, are playing to defeat our intermediate passing game while containing the edges and stuffing our predictable inside runs (esp. on first downs). We aren't using Lloyd, Ellington, McDonald in the passing game, sparingly using Johnson on 3rd downs and it's primarly been the Crabtree and VD-show with some sprinkles of Boldin. We ARE using more 3-WR+ sets though which is a good sign.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 17, 2014 at 9:33 AM ]
Originally posted by audick:
Originally posted by thl408:
I'll get to one now. This would have been a better example of the point Cossell was trying to make.

4th Quarter
11:01
1st & 10

Here, CHI comes with a 5 man rush with a cover 3 shell and 3 underneath zone defenders. 49ers go hi-low along the right sidelines using the Sail concept. The blue defender is the key defender for Kap. He is the defender that will determine where Kap should throw.


The blue defender has committed to Miller in the flat. This means the throw must go to VD. His defender has inside leverage and VD is about to break outside. That's a win for VD. Kap should start working to get his body into a throwing position.


He should now be in a throwing motion.


Kap not pulling the trigger.


Sacked

Thank you, thank you, thank you. THAT is exactly the difference between where Kap is and where he should be. Given the coverage and the play called, he had plenty of time to throw, provided he had the mythical "killer instinct." True killer instinct is trusting that you can throw to a spot instead of reacting to something you see.

Im sure the Int from earlier in the game got to him and didn't want to make the same mistake that's why he just kept the ball and the sack instead of what might be a turnover and a drive killer.
Originally posted by ltrain:

Hadn't seen this posted yet, looks like Boldin was waving hello to Kap on the last offensive play of the game but another incompletion to crabtree to end a game. I'm not saying the pass to Crabtree that hit him in the hands was the wrong decision, but an easier pass to Boldin may have been the better decision.

I think either Crab or Boldin was a good read, Crab could've actually caught that ball if he didn't slow down a bit. From what it looks, Boldin got open as soon as Kap was already in motion to throw the ball.
Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:
Originally posted by ltrain:

Hadn't seen this posted yet, looks like Boldin was waving hello to Kap on the last offensive play of the game but another incompletion to crabtree to end a game. I'm not saying the pass to Crabtree that hit him in the hands was the wrong decision, but an easier pass to Boldin may have been the better decision.

I think either Crab or Boldin was a good read, Crab could've actually caught that ball if he didn't slow down a bit. From what it looks, Boldin got open as soon as Kap was already in motion to throw the ball.

Agreed. That was a very poor route by Crabtree. He made no effort to sell the outside-in route and then checked up on his own crossing route. I would have preferred Johnson in that spot to easily shake the DB outside and make it a given-pass by CK.
I love all of the exhibits from this post.. these are the same plays that I was talkin about ..

1) Tho the Bears FS made an awesome INT, but had Kap put some air on that ball instead of zipping it, it woulda been a BIGGGGG PLAYYYY!!

2) Due to his Randall Cunningham like wind, Kap could not deliver the ball to a would be open Vernon Davis.

3) Kap being inlove of the idea throwing to Crabb on any given play just makes him a lesser of a good decision making type of QB... personally, this was THE WRONG READ... WHY???? there's a FS sitting 5 yards away, and could have even POP the ball out of Crabb's hand.. The best read here is to Boldin!! All Kap needed to do was put the ball on the air and let Boldin run under it.. it was a pure man to man w/no safety help..
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. That was a very poor route by Crabtree. He made no effort to sell the outside-in route and then checked up on his own crossing route. I would have preferred Johnson in that spot to easily shake the DB outside and make it a given-pass by CK.

What I would say tho is, I want the niners to have some consistency when it came to play calling. I wanted to see more bunch formation just like the Dal game, or keep attacking the middle of the field. Kaps running threat or the running game will always bring down the LB's.
I like CK7, but he really has no understanding of the [football] passing game! He doesn't understand angles, route concepts, or defensive coverage's. Chicago played him the way you would play a rookie QB. Stop the run, force him to pass, and disguise coverage's. Similar to how the Seahawk's play him.

Kap will continue to try to beat teams with his legs or his RB's legs and if not he will be forced to face his weaknesses; locking on to one target, useing Crabtree as his security blanket, all while continue to throw to the wrong shoulder or over the receiver's head. Once again these are all things you would expect to see from a rookie not a 4 year pro.

All of that hard work he showed off in the off-season is scary because if he is working as hard as they say he is, we may be seeing his cieling and this may be his best effort.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,074
Originally posted by ltrain:

Hadn't seen this posted yet, looks like Boldin was waving hello to Kap on the last offensive play of the game but another incompletion to crabtree to end a game. I'm not saying the pass to Crabtree that hit him in the hands was the wrong decision, but an easier pass to Boldin may have been the better decision.

Boldin may have had a half step, but he was not by any means what I consider open. Throwing it to Crabs was not a bad choice on this play. Crabs' extra shake at the top of his route, made him only able to get one hand on the pass.
...
I'll show some of Kap's 2nd half scrambles and sacks later today. I was very curious what he was looking at in the 2nd half as he dropped back. Some dropbacks he had time, some he was pressured very quickly.
Originally posted by thl408:
Boldin may have had a half step, but he was not by any means what I consider open. Throwing it to Crabs was not a bad choice on this play. Crabs' extra shake at the top of his route, made him only able to get one hand on the pass.
...
I'll show some of Kap's 2nd half scrambles and sacks later today. I was very curious what he was looking at in the 2nd half as he dropped back. Some dropbacks he had time, some he was pressured very quickly.

Thanks so much for all your work...I know you love it BUT it's still a bunch of work. So thanks!
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Boldin may have had a half step, but he was not by any means what I consider open. Throwing it to Crabs was not a bad choice on this play. Crabs' extra shake at the top of his route, made him only able to get one hand on the pass.
...
I'll show some of Kap's 2nd half scrambles and sacks later today. I was very curious what he was looking at in the 2nd half as he dropped back. Some dropbacks he had time, some he was pressured very quickly.

Thanks so much for all your work...I know you love it BUT it's still a bunch of work. So thanks!
408excuses..... lawrence o could do it with one hand tied behind his back . i do though really appreciate all the good smart football people here who can break down plays and show whats going on. it helps people like me who do not know a nickel back from a chump change back .. same to be said come draft time and all the college football experts we have around here,, that really helps people like me
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by ltrain:

Hadn't seen this posted yet, looks like Boldin was waving hello to Kap on the last offensive play of the game but another incompletion to crabtree to end a game. I'm not saying the pass to Crabtree that hit him in the hands was the wrong decision, but an easier pass to Boldin may have been the better decision.

Boldin may have had a half step, but he was not by any means what I consider open. Throwing it to Crabs was not a bad choice on this play. Crabs' extra shake at the top of his route, made him only able to get one hand on the pass.
...
I'll show some of Kap's 2nd half scrambles and sacks later today. I was very curious what he was looking at in the 2nd half as he dropped back. Some dropbacks he had time, some he was pressured very quickly.

I honestly liked the design of the final play. You had a scissors concept between crabs and boldin. You also had a double slant/post concept between crabs and the TE. This is a nice play with multiple concepts working. Crabs was open timing was just off a bit.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Boldin may have had a half step, but he was not by any means what I consider open. Throwing it to Crabs was not a bad choice on this play. Crabs' extra shake at the top of his route, made him only able to get one hand on the pass.
...
I'll show some of Kap's 2nd half scrambles and sacks later today. I was very curious what he was looking at in the 2nd half as he dropped back. Some dropbacks he had time, some he was pressured very quickly.

Thanks so much for all your work...I know you love it BUT it's still a bunch of work. So thanks!
408excuses..... lawrence o could do it with one hand tied behind his back

Of course he could. I don't even know why we even bother with other players on the PS. Okoye IS the PS baby! And Justin Smith better watch out b/c if they activate him, he's going to make the HOF "this year!"
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