Originally posted by thl408:^ Totally agree, Ari plays a TON of man coverage. I expect to see them with at least 1 Spy and a safety in a middle zone ALL game. Our receivers have to defeat the 1-1 coverage. Not having Davis will hurt, we saw how badly he destroyed that kind of defense last year(in my one and only game at Candlestick I will say ). But they have two of the best man-coverage corners in the game.
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by Phil:
^ Ya, he's staring Boldin down, mistake no1 but look at the pass itself. If there was an arch to it and placed in front of Boldin that's a TD. That ball was poorly thrown along wit the fact he was staring Boldin down. Look where Boldin is when the ball is intercepted, it is intercepted at the 30 and Boldin is at about the 28. Not only was the pass low but it was behind Boldin.
i disagree that would have been a completion but he should have laid it out there. honestly we don't really run those type of plays enough imo. kap doesn't have to make those throws, i can recall just 1 to lloyd in the preseason and then this pass usually they go to vd and he can drop them in there to him. he has to do that with other people as well.
i think back to the bomb that vd caught against tampa bay.. so he CAN make those throws he just has to be called on to make those throws MORE. we need to take our shots down the field to stretch the defense and kill them with the underneath yards after catch stuff.
i think kap did a decent job on checking down against the bears. but overall he had a bad game and he's allowed to. he'll just work harder and be determined to not make those same mistakes again.
IMO he needs to work with Whitfield on getting an arch/lob on his passes with a softer touch. A little rainbow on that pass, laid out in front of Boldin and it's a TD. He can do it, just not consistently. And we design way too many plays with stationary receivers.
By 'stationary receivers' do you mean when a WR catches ball and he's not running? The conventional rule is you run away from man coverage, and you sit down in zones. This isn't always the case, but that's what you're seeing. When you watch the ARi game next week, this will not be the case. ARI plays predominantly man coverage and we will see the 49er WRs catching the ball on the run.
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Chicago Bears game coaches film analysis
Sep 16, 2014 at 1:56 PM
- jonnydel
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Sep 16, 2014 at 1:58 PM
- jonnydel
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Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
Why don't we do naked bootlegs w/ Kap (remember Young and Favre running them and Kap is faster)?
One reason is because so many teams are running zone, we almost never have a truly uncovered side of the field. Also, teams are watching for CK to run the ball. When we were running PA rollouts in the game Sunday night, the backside DE was shooting upfield looking for CK to rollout and he almost got killed a couple times. Had to throw the ball away on those....
Sep 16, 2014 at 2:11 PM
- tohara3
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Originally posted by Jcool:Another great write up! Keep it up!
This
Sep 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM
- Adusoron
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Some good thoughts here and I appreciate Jonnydel putting this together again for us this season. I pride myself on being an objective and reasonable fan, but I have to admit that the Bears game loss really bothered me Sunday night and into Monday - possibly more than the average loss would. Perhaps it was because it was the home opener in our new stadium, or because it was a team that we should have beaten, or because of the general promise in development that Colin Kaepernick showed in week 1, or that we were dominating them as expected throughout the first 2.5 to 3 quarters, or that we wasted a prime chance to be up on Seattle in the standings when we never did that at all last season.
That said, I listened to Greg Cosell's interview with Mr. T and Ray Ratto that aired on Monday night. I went into it very nervous because I was expecting Cosell to rip Colin apart because of Cosell's preference for developed, patient, pocket-manipulating progression reader QBs. (Cosell has heavily criticized Colin in the past, particularly last season.) Surprisingly, Cosell wasn't overly harsh on Colin and alluded to the young QB learning factor. He said a number of things that made sense and I'll throw it up to the community to think about.
1. Colin's first INT, to Conte, was the right read and throw, but was a play where you simply have to credit Conte for making an outstanding individual defensive anticipation play. Cosell said Colin made the right read within the context of the play design and he could not put the blame on Colin for that.
2. Colin's third INT, to Fuller (on the throw to Carrier), was a product of Colin not reading where Fuller was in relation to Carrier looking wide open. Cosell said this is just part of the package when you ask Colin to move in the pocket and extend plays. Sometimes you get outstanding spectacular plays, and sometimes you get the Fuller pick. Very hard to disagree with this. Also given the rate of spectacular plays to crushing picks, it seems that this greatly favors Colin's game.
3. Cosell again said a lot of the Kaepernick discussion revolves around what philosophy the 49er coaches employ with Colin. Specifically, are they coaching him to move around in the pocket instead of encouraging him to stay patient, bounce on his feet, and scan his reads? (While I agree with this as a philosophical discussion, this is probably the point on which I do have some disagreement with Cosell because I think the OL giving up pressure quickly plays into Colin feeling like he needs to move. Also, I see Colin trying to reset his feet and find guys after the initial read is covered. It's just inconsistent. I think the coaches sometimes ask him to hang in the pocket and read progressions, and sometimes they want him to move. If you think about it, that keeps defenses guessing on where he'll be at any given time which can slow the pass rush.)
4. The pass rush is a concern. Cosell likes Brooks as an all-around player who fits in great on a really good team but is not the dynamo that Aldon Smith is.
5. Cosell seemed to agree with Mr. T that this isn't an "EVERYONE PANIC!!!" game. It's a reaffirmation of the lesson that if you turn the ball over 4 times, you're going to lose. Unsaid, but very real is that the 49ers were just plain sloppy. Sloppy is correctable. Talent limitations and bad coaching are not (and we don't have problems with either those).
That said, I listened to Greg Cosell's interview with Mr. T and Ray Ratto that aired on Monday night. I went into it very nervous because I was expecting Cosell to rip Colin apart because of Cosell's preference for developed, patient, pocket-manipulating progression reader QBs. (Cosell has heavily criticized Colin in the past, particularly last season.) Surprisingly, Cosell wasn't overly harsh on Colin and alluded to the young QB learning factor. He said a number of things that made sense and I'll throw it up to the community to think about.
1. Colin's first INT, to Conte, was the right read and throw, but was a play where you simply have to credit Conte for making an outstanding individual defensive anticipation play. Cosell said Colin made the right read within the context of the play design and he could not put the blame on Colin for that.
2. Colin's third INT, to Fuller (on the throw to Carrier), was a product of Colin not reading where Fuller was in relation to Carrier looking wide open. Cosell said this is just part of the package when you ask Colin to move in the pocket and extend plays. Sometimes you get outstanding spectacular plays, and sometimes you get the Fuller pick. Very hard to disagree with this. Also given the rate of spectacular plays to crushing picks, it seems that this greatly favors Colin's game.
3. Cosell again said a lot of the Kaepernick discussion revolves around what philosophy the 49er coaches employ with Colin. Specifically, are they coaching him to move around in the pocket instead of encouraging him to stay patient, bounce on his feet, and scan his reads? (While I agree with this as a philosophical discussion, this is probably the point on which I do have some disagreement with Cosell because I think the OL giving up pressure quickly plays into Colin feeling like he needs to move. Also, I see Colin trying to reset his feet and find guys after the initial read is covered. It's just inconsistent. I think the coaches sometimes ask him to hang in the pocket and read progressions, and sometimes they want him to move. If you think about it, that keeps defenses guessing on where he'll be at any given time which can slow the pass rush.)
4. The pass rush is a concern. Cosell likes Brooks as an all-around player who fits in great on a really good team but is not the dynamo that Aldon Smith is.
5. Cosell seemed to agree with Mr. T that this isn't an "EVERYONE PANIC!!!" game. It's a reaffirmation of the lesson that if you turn the ball over 4 times, you're going to lose. Unsaid, but very real is that the 49ers were just plain sloppy. Sloppy is correctable. Talent limitations and bad coaching are not (and we don't have problems with either those).
[ Edited by Adusoron on Sep 16, 2014 at 2:22 PM ]
Sep 16, 2014 at 2:39 PM
- ace52
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Originally posted by Phil:
IMO he needs to work with Whitfield on getting an arch/lob on his passes with a softer touch. A little rainbow on that pass, laid out in front of Boldin and it's a TD. He can do it, just not consistently. And we design way too many plays with stationary receivers.
I agree with this. Kap can do this, but sometimes he seems to prefer to gun it in there with a flatter arc.
Ironically, one of Kap's best "rainbows" came in his debut game against the Bears. He threw a gorgeous pass for a 40+ yards gain, dropping it into the hands of KW running at full speed, hitting him in stride. That was the pass that made me say "Wow, we may be looking at our future QB".
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:02 PM
- thl408
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There's definitely some truth to Kap needing to put more arc on his throw, but there's really only one instance where I think it helps and that's on a deep ball where the pass is thrown so that the WR catches it over his shoulder - and over the defender. On the deep bombs that Kap threw to VD last season, and the KW deep pass mentioned by ace532 above, there was a crossing element to the route being ran. The WR was somewhat running across the field, not just vertically up the field. This lessens the importance for an arc because the throw doesn't have to go over the defender. In all other instances, I prefer a rocket arm. Kap has also shown the ability to arc one over a LB level defender as we saw a handful of times last season along the sidelines.
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:20 PM
- jonnydel
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Originally posted by thl408:
There's definitely some truth to Kap needing to put more arc on his throw, but there's really only one instance where I think it helps and that's on a deep ball where the pass is thrown so that the WR catches it over his shoulder - and over the defender. On the deep bombs that Kap threw to VD last season, and the KW deep pass mentioned by ace532 above, there was a crossing element to the route being ran. The WR was somewhat running across the field, not just vertically up the field. This lessens the importance for an arc because the throw doesn't have to go over the defender. In all other instances, I prefer a rocket arm. Kap has also shown the ability to arc one over a LB level defender as we saw a handful of times last season along the sidelines.
Agree here. Where arc is most important is on corner routes out, sideline routes against man-coverage or face routes, and post routes against cover 4 only. When you're playing a team that's playing predominantly zone you want your qb to fire the ball between the zones. If he lobs it out there it gives defenders more time to close on the ball and can get your receivers killed.
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:29 PM
- SofaKing
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phenomenal post, johnnydel. Thanks for the breakdown.
Pretty much confirmed what I felt after the emotions of the loss wore off. I thought the gameplan was fine, but the players screwed it up with costly errors and penalties. The analysis and coaches film shows it.
My only gripe with the playcalling was running on 3rd & 6 inside the 10, not even attempting to score a TD. It shows the lack of "killer insinct" the players talked about.
A lot of young guys being thrown to the fire, particularly on defense. They need some time to sharpen their games and play mistake-free football.
No excuses for Kap, he simply can't make those turnovers, although I do give credit to Fuller for his 1st pick. That was just a spectacular individual play.
Pretty much confirmed what I felt after the emotions of the loss wore off. I thought the gameplan was fine, but the players screwed it up with costly errors and penalties. The analysis and coaches film shows it.
My only gripe with the playcalling was running on 3rd & 6 inside the 10, not even attempting to score a TD. It shows the lack of "killer insinct" the players talked about.
A lot of young guys being thrown to the fire, particularly on defense. They need some time to sharpen their games and play mistake-free football.
No excuses for Kap, he simply can't make those turnovers, although I do give credit to Fuller for his 1st pick. That was just a spectacular individual play.
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:33 PM
- thl408
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
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Positives:
The gameplan, for the most part, was solid. We ran a lot of different looks and different stuff than we did against Dallas. We were, for the most part, effective against them. I'll get to it in the negatives, but, the Bears really only put together one long scoring drive. The rest was gifted to them. The good news in this is that these things are correctable, it's not systemic. I do have to eat my words a little bit about Fangio not adjusting to Marshall in the endzone, because they did. After the first TD they tried to give Ward some help but Chicago did a good job of making sure to isolate Ward - not much Fangio could've done on the 2nd TD. The 3rd TD went to a TE on a fade against Reid because we were doubling Marshall, the 4th TD, the defense should've called a timeout because a couple guys were moving back and forth and talking trying to sort out some assignments and it allowed them to isolate Marshall once again.
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Can you go a little bit into the bolded? I am at work and haven't been able to immerse myself into the film.
[ Edited by thl408 on Sep 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM ]
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:40 PM
- jonnydel
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Originally posted by thl408:Sure thing
Originally posted by jonnydel:
.
.
Positives:
The gameplan, for the most part, was solid. We ran a lot of different looks and different stuff than we did against Dallas. We were, for the most part, effective against them. I'll get to it in the negatives, but, the Bears really only put together one long scoring drive. The rest was gifted to them. The good news in this is that these things are correctable, it's not systemic. I do have to eat my words a little bit about Fangio not adjusting to Marshall in the endzone, because they did. After the first TD they tried to give Ward some help but Chicago did a good job of making sure to isolate Ward - not much Fangio could've done on the 2nd TD. The 3rd TD went to a TE on a fade against Reid because we were doubling Marshall, the 4th TD, the defense should've called a timeout because a couple guys were moving back and forth and talking trying to sort out some assignments and it allowed them to isolate Marshall once again.
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Can you go a little bit into the bolded? I am at work and haven't been able to immerse myself into the film.
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:41 PM
- pasodoc9er
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Jonny, generally I love your stuff. I just can't make myself look at this again.
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM
- jonnydel
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Here's the 2nd TD by Marshall:
So, after the 1st TD to Marshall we give Ward help with Reid right over the top. They run the stacked receiver up to try and pull the safety away, but Reid is obviously there to give Ward help up top.
You see Reid cluing on Marshall for help for Ward.
Reid is in position help for Ward but Ward lets Marshall boxes Ward out underneath. With help over the top, Ward needs to take an underneath coverage.
Reid is there for the sandwhich coverage, but Ward gets moved out of position and it's a simple height/size advantage for the TD
So, after the 1st TD to Marshall we give Ward help with Reid right over the top. They run the stacked receiver up to try and pull the safety away, but Reid is obviously there to give Ward help up top.
You see Reid cluing on Marshall for help for Ward.
Reid is in position help for Ward but Ward lets Marshall boxes Ward out underneath. With help over the top, Ward needs to take an underneath coverage.
Reid is there for the sandwhich coverage, but Ward gets moved out of position and it's a simple height/size advantage for the TD
Sep 16, 2014 at 4:15 PM
- thl408
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's the 2nd TD by Marshall:
So, after the 1st TD to Marshall we give Ward help with Reid right over the top. They run the stacked receiver up to try and pull the safety away, but Reid is obviously there to give Ward help up top.
You see Reid cluing on Marshall for help for Ward.
Reid is in position help for Ward but Ward lets Marshall boxes Ward out underneath. With help over the top, Ward needs to take an underneath coverage.
Reid is there for the sandwhich coverage, but Ward gets moved out of position and it's a simple height/size advantage for the TD
Thanks. Ward got completely boxed out. Someone in another thread said it was like a basketball player in the low post, just using his size to shield Ward. After seeing the cut up, I was kind of hoping Ward understood where his help was with Reid over the top. Ward needs to stay between the QB and the WR in order to force a throw over the top where Reid would be available to help.
The third TD catch, Ward was hung out to dry. That was not cool.
Sep 16, 2014 at 4:31 PM
- iluvdemniners
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i blame the refs for this loss
Sep 16, 2014 at 4:43 PM
- jonnydel
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Here's the 3rd TD:
We have the line crowded showing no safety help. This isolates Reid on a TE at the bottom and Marshall on Culliver up top. Jeffries is in the slot on Ward - I think they were anticipating Marshall in the slot because Bethea is there next to Ward as well.
Bethea is there to give inside help to Ward. They were changing what they were doing at the goal line to try and give Ward some help. Just got outmatched though.
We have the line crowded showing no safety help. This isolates Reid on a TE at the bottom and Marshall on Culliver up top. Jeffries is in the slot on Ward - I think they were anticipating Marshall in the slot because Bethea is there next to Ward as well.
Bethea is there to give inside help to Ward. They were changing what they were doing at the goal line to try and give Ward some help. Just got outmatched though.