KC Chiefs coaches film analysis

I have waited all day for this thread.

Originally posted by Adusoron:
Jonnydel, great writeup. I have a couple of questions I'd love for you to explore based upon the Chiefs game as well as the prior 4 weeks - when you have a moment or two.

1. Overall, how is Reid playing at FS? We don't see him mentioned a lot, but that could be a good thing because it means QBs aren't throwing the ball his way.

2. Do you see growth in Kaepernick's overall game based upon the film? Where has he grown from 2012 and 2013? Do you agree with observers (such as Greg Cosell of NFL films) who seem to believe that Kaepernick is now what he's always going to be... a player who plays outside of structure and won't be a fully developed pocket passer which results in dynamic plays, and some frustrating lapse plays?

3. What do you think we do with Brock, Cox and Culliver when Brock gets healthy?

4. How is Fangio compensating for a weakened pass rush?

1. Reid is playing very solid. He's in the right position most of the time, he's a sure tackler and really flies to the ball. He had a big tackle on Jamaal Charles on a quick out on 3rd and 1 for no game that was a huge defensive play. The biggest thing is that you're starting to see the defensive backfield, as a whole, is playing better together. They're playing as a team on the backend - which we haven't always had.

2. I've seen CK grow, but, it's been like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back kind of growth. I don't fully agree that he's a player that will play outside the structure a lot, mainly because he plays with a different style than a guy like - say, Russel Wilson. What we saw last night from Wilson, was a guy who'll run around, ad lib, and try and pull plays out of his butt. There was one play where he ran around like a tard and then the TE who had stayed in to block for 4-5 seconds and then lost his guy because Wilson was running around, peels off and Wilson throws the ball to the TE and they get a 10+ yard gain. Nowhere in the play design is it for Wilson to run around and then have a TE peel off that late into the play. It's a complete ad lib, backyard football style.

With CK, he's trying to extend plays so that the play has more time to develop, not necessarily ad libbing. A good example is the first TD to Vernon Davis against the Cardinals in the first game of last year. He rolled out to his left, not to make up something new, but to give VD more time to get downfield because the O-line failed on their pass block rather quickly. So, he'll look to extend the play, Wilson looks to create a play.

But, back to you question at hand about development. It's hard for me to be able to say with any certainty that he's hit his ceiling, or that we're looking at the QB he will be for the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of QB Steve Young was his first year in the Tamba Bay - very similar to CK(Young did run a 4.5 at the combine - just a step slower than CK). He then had years so sit behind Montana, and when he did get in the game when Montana was hurt, he played similar to CK in development at that point in his career. He could make some outstanding plays with his legs, but, didn't have the refined game Montana had. Young was a guy who made strides every year in the league and continued to grow. He was always a runner, but, the more comfortable he was in the system - and really, the more comfortable he was being himself and not trying to be Joe Montana - the better he played.

For me, CK is still rough on the edges and I'm not sure what grit sand paper is best for him at this stage. He's in his 4th year, so, he should be more refined in his play than he is, but, there are guys who've been in the league longer who are still less refined that CK is(Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, MIchael Vick) so that doesn't mean that he can't be successful - we've seen the success he's had.

Our expectations have to be on par with what he's best suited to do. He's not going to be a Kurt Warner - who is the epitome of the premier pocket passer, he's not going to be a Ben Roethlesburger, who's the, extend the play and use your big arm down the field, kind of guy, he's not the Russel Wilson, scramble around like a tard for 5 minutes and find a RB somehow guy.

I think what is hindering his development more than his running right now, is his gunslinger mentality. Think about Brett Favre, the guy was pretty much the same guy in year 2 as he was in year 15. He'd give you the great sometimes and sometimes give you the terrible. That's why he's got the most TD passes(for now) and the most INT's ever thrown.....

For me, the gunslinger mentality isn't as much about firing the ball into a small hole, it's the ignoring of the "little things". Gunslingers get that laser vision on where they want to throw the ball and sometimes it'll work and other times it tips the defense. To me, regardless of success being a gunslinger, he's got to grow more into a patient passer. Not necessarily taking more time on plays, but being patient on his throws, making sure to not hurry through all the steps because he knows the guy will be open. That's something that I can't answer through film.....

3. I see Brock coming back into the lineup. Cox has had production - no doubt about that. But, teams have also thrown at him a lot. A. Smith threw at him a number of times. Several times, they wouldn't complete a throw against him on one play and come back with the exact same play the next play and complete it, because they knew they could get it against Cox. I think he's a valuable player, but, I don't see a big upgrade over Brock. Remember, Brock had good production from the same spot last year, but I think Brock is more physical.

4. Fangio is compensating for the lack of pass rush through a myriad of ways. We're blitzing more than we normally do, we using different zone blitzes and we're stunting more on earlier downs than we have been. We've also had a couple guys step up and play better. Aaron Lynch in one of those guys. He's had several QB pressures(whether he's credited with them or not, I'm not sure) over the past couple weeks. The stunting though, did allow us to give up a couple decent runs against KC in the game.

#4: SCTMotF!

1Q 1st & 5
KC: Packaged Play: WR screen + Inside Zone + TE quick seam route

QB will make the pre-snap reads to know which is his best option. There's the inside zone run, the WR quick screen, or the TE quick seam route. Skuta has press alignment on the WR screen so that's a no. No one is aligned over the TE Fasano. The line of scrimmage is the 17 yard line.


The inside handoff action to create a reaction from the defense as Alex makes his post snap read. Willis takes a step towards line of scrimmage to react to the handoff.


Willis reads run because the left guard has come 2 yards across the line of scrimmage to throw a block. The LG's foot is on the 15 yard line. Alex pulls the ball back and targets the TE who has space earned for him by, what is now, the fake handoff.


Fasano gain of +12.

This is my porn

Originally posted by thl408:
#4: SCTMotF!

1Q 1st & 5
KC: Packaged Play: WR screen + Inside Zone + TE quick seam route

QB will make the pre-snap reads to know which is his best option. There's the inside zone run, the WR quick screen, or the TE quick seam route. Skuta has press alignment on the WR screen so that's a no. No one is aligned over the TE Fasano. The line of scrimmage is the 17 yard line.


The inside handoff action to create a reaction from the defense as Alex makes his post snap read. Willis takes a step towards line of scrimmage to react to the handoff.


Willis reads run because the left guard has come 2 yards across the line of scrimmage to throw a block. The LG's foot is on the 15 yard line. Alex pulls the ball back and targets the TE who has space earned for him by, what is now, the fake handoff.


Fasano gain of +12.

This whole drive.. Just too easy for them.

Thl and Jonnydel, thanks so much for the start of your tutorial. Also appreciate both your summaries prior to getting to film...which as usual, is superb. Couple questions, for either one or the other:

With 3 new guys in DB, I figured it would be 3-4 games until they got "acquainted", and each knew where the other was going to be. After the second loss, I changed that to 6-8 games, and now, am seeing much better coordination, but still think it will be midseason before guys are set. Your thots? Longer, all yr, or what?

Kap's positives were all over the place. His deficiencies, are seemingly, the little things, the fundamentals. And they don't seem to be improving. You think a different QB coach, with intensive work on his fundamentals would pay off. Also, just a note...kap played world's better without the damn multiple formations, motions , and then more formations in the same play...followed by a delay of game or burned T.O. NO question kap played way better forgetting about roman's multi formations, shifts and so on. Kap looked like he belonged out there. With all the shifts, motions, more shifts, he NEVER looked like he was comfortable. I didn't count but instead of 4 T.O.s and 5 delay of games, there may have been one. Man what a difference skipping romn's shifts makes. Do you concur?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
1. Reid is playing very solid. He's in the right position most of the time, he's a sure tackler and really flies to the ball. He had a big tackle on Jamaal Charles on a quick out on 3rd and 1 for no game that was a huge defensive play. The biggest thing is that you're starting to see the defensive backfield, as a whole, is playing better together. They're playing as a team on the backend - which we haven't always had.

2. I've seen CK grow, but, it's been like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back kind of growth. I don't fully agree that he's a player that will play outside the structure a lot, mainly because he plays with a different style than a guy like - say, Russel Wilson. What we saw last night from Wilson, was a guy who'll run around, ad lib, and try and pull plays out of his butt. There was one play where he ran around like a tard and then the TE who had stayed in to block for 4-5 seconds and then lost his guy because Wilson was running around, peels off and Wilson throws the ball to the TE and they get a 10+ yard gain. Nowhere in the play design is it for Wilson to run around and then have a TE peel off that late into the play. It's a complete ad lib, backyard football style.

With CK, he's trying to extend plays so that the play has more time to develop, not necessarily ad libbing. A good example is the first TD to Vernon Davis against the Cardinals in the first game of last year. He rolled out to his left, not to make up something new, but to give VD more time to get downfield because the O-line failed on their pass block rather quickly. So, he'll look to extend the play, Wilson looks to create a play.

But, back to you question at hand about development. It's hard for me to be able to say with any certainty that he's hit his ceiling, or that we're looking at the QB he will be for the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of QB Steve Young was his first year in the Tamba Bay - very similar to CK(Young did run a 4.5 at the combine - just a step slower than CK). He then had years so sit behind Montana, and when he did get in the game when Montana was hurt, he played similar to CK in development at that point in his career. He could make some outstanding plays with his legs, but, didn't have the refined game Montana had. Young was a guy who made strides every year in the league and continued to grow. He was always a runner, but, the more comfortable he was in the system - and really, the more comfortable he was being himself and not trying to be Joe Montana - the better he played.

For me, CK is still rough on the edges and I'm not sure what grit sand paper is best for him at this stage. He's in his 4th year, so, he should be more refined in his play than he is, but, there are guys who've been in the league longer who are still less refined that CK is(Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, MIchael Vick) so that doesn't mean that he can't be successful - we've seen the success he's had.

Our expectations have to be on par with what he's best suited to do. He's not going to be a Kurt Warner - who is the epitome of the premier pocket passer, he's not going to be a Ben Roethlesburger, who's the, extend the play and use your big arm down the field, kind of guy, he's not the Russel Wilson, scramble around like a tard for 5 minutes and find a RB somehow guy.

I think what is hindering his development more than his running right now, is his gunslinger mentality. Think about Brett Favre, the guy was pretty much the same guy in year 2 as he was in year 15. He'd give you the great sometimes and sometimes give you the terrible. That's why he's got the most TD passes(for now) and the most INT's ever thrown.....

For me, the gunslinger mentality isn't as much about firing the ball into a small hole, it's the ignoring of the "little things". Gunslingers get that laser vision on where they want to throw the ball and sometimes it'll work and other times it tips the defense. To me, regardless of success being a gunslinger, he's got to grow more into a patient passer. Not necessarily taking more time on plays, but being patient on his throws, making sure to not hurry through all the steps because he knows the guy will be open. That's something that I can't answer through film.....

3. I see Brock coming back into the lineup. Cox has had production - no doubt about that. But, teams have also thrown at him a lot. A. Smith threw at him a number of times. Several times, they wouldn't complete a throw against him on one play and come back with the exact same play the next play and complete it, because they knew they could get it against Cox. I think he's a valuable player, but, I don't see a big upgrade over Brock. Remember, Brock had good production from the same spot last year, but I think Brock is more physical.

4. Fangio is compensating for the lack of pass rush through a myriad of ways. We're blitzing more than we normally do, we using different zone blitzes and we're stunting more on earlier downs than we have been. We've also had a couple guys step up and play better. Aaron Lynch in one of those guys. He's had several QB pressures(whether he's credited with them or not, I'm not sure) over the past couple weeks. The stunting though, did allow us to give up a couple decent runs against KC in the game.

LMFAO...

Good stuff all around but that part had me rolling.

Here's one of those great moments in the game where you see how CK really needs to grasp the little things and what his running ability really does to a defense so that he knows how to attack the defense.

First an example of how Alex Smith does this:


Here KC has a 3rd and 12. We beat them with coverage, but, A Smith makes the play.


You see we've got all the receivers covered


Still got everybody covered and Smith feels the pressure so he rolls out to his right.

The key here, Smith attacks vertically, his movement forward draws Brooks out of coverage to play Smith.

Smith then, after forcing Brooks to declare pursuit, hits the TE who is now open.

Here you see how it created an opening for the TE. Smith took a hit, but, KC converted 3rd and 12 on a drive where they ended up scoring. This was a big play in the game.


Here we're coming out with a 2 TE set. We're trying to hit Carrier in the flat off play action. It's a designed QB rollout. Carrier will come across the formation into the flat.


You see McDonald occupies the over the top defenders and Carrier is headed to the flat. Ck is going to roll out.


As Ck turns, he wants to throw the ball to Carrier but can't because the LB is in coverage. He should move vertically to force the issue on the LB, instead, he moves horizontally.

He tries to extend the play by moving horizontally, but, nothing's going to open up, he's not challenging the defense in any way. The inside defenders aren't in position to make a play, if he forces the issue, Carrier will be open.


He's still moving horizontally, nothing's happening.


He then tries to force a throw in to McDonald on the sideline that's incomplete. We have to try a FG on this play....

He needs to press the issue, make the LB choose between coverage and pursuit like A Smith did.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Thl and Jonnydel, thanks so much for the start of your tutorial. Also appreciate both your summaries prior to getting to film...which as usual, is superb. Couple questions, for either one or the other:

With 3 new guys in DB, I figured it would be 3-4 games until they got "acquainted", and each knew where the other was going to be. After the second loss, I changed that to 6-8 games, and now, am seeing much better coordination, but still think it will be midseason before guys are set. Your thots? Longer, all yr, or what?

Kap's positives were all over the place. His deficiencies, are seemingly, the little things, the fundamentals. And they don't seem to be improving. You think a different QB coach, with intensive work on his fundamentals would pay off. Also, just a note...kap played world's better without the damn multiple formations, motions , and then more formations in the same play...followed by a delay of game or burned T.O. NO question kap played way better forgetting about roman's multi formations, shifts and so on. Kap looked like he belonged out there. With all the shifts, motions, more shifts, he NEVER looked like he was comfortable. I didn't count but instead of 4 T.O.s and 5 delay of games, there may have been one. Man what a difference skipping romn's shifts makes. Do you concur?

As to the secondary - I've really seen a lot of improvement from them, some of it has to do with the pass rush though, the rush has been better so the coverage looks better.

the shifts and stuff: Agreed. We didn't "check" the defense nearly as much as we normally do, which allowed for a quicker tempo. There was one play where we even snapped the ball the moment Kilgore grabbed it. The O-line got set, Kilgore walked up and the instant he touched the ball it was a snap. It didn't work too well because it was a run for little gain - but, I liked the change of pace to the snap.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Adusoron:
Jonnydel, great writeup. I have a couple of questions I'd love for you to explore based upon the Chiefs game as well as the prior 4 weeks - when you have a moment or two.

1. Overall, how is Reid playing at FS? We don't see him mentioned a lot, but that could be a good thing because it means QBs aren't throwing the ball his way.

2. Do you see growth in Kaepernick's overall game based upon the film? Where has he grown from 2012 and 2013? Do you agree with observers (such as Greg Cosell of NFL films) who seem to believe that Kaepernick is now what he's always going to be... a player who plays outside of structure and won't be a fully developed pocket passer which results in dynamic plays, and some frustrating lapse plays?

3. What do you think we do with Brock, Cox and Culliver when Brock gets healthy?

4. How is Fangio compensating for a weakened pass rush?

1. Reid is playing very solid. He's in the right position most of the time, he's a sure tackler and really flies to the ball. He had a big tackle on Jamaal Charles on a quick out on 3rd and 1 for no game that was a huge defensive play. The biggest thing is that you're starting to see the defensive backfield, as a whole, is playing better together. They're playing as a team on the backend - which we haven't always had.

2. I've seen CK grow, but, it's been like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back kind of growth. I don't fully agree that he's a player that will play outside the structure a lot, mainly because he plays with a different style than a guy like - say, Russel Wilson. What we saw last night from Wilson, was a guy who'll run around, ad lib, and try and pull plays out of his butt. There was one play where he ran around like a tard and then the TE who had stayed in to block for 4-5 seconds and then lost his guy because Wilson was running around, peels off and Wilson throws the ball to the TE and they get a 10+ yard gain. Nowhere in the play design is it for Wilson to run around and then have a TE peel off that late into the play. It's a complete ad lib, backyard football style.

With CK, he's trying to extend plays so that the play has more time to develop, not necessarily ad libbing. A good example is the first TD to Vernon Davis against the Cardinals in the first game of last year. He rolled out to his left, not to make up something new, but to give VD more time to get downfield because the O-line failed on their pass block rather quickly. So, he'll look to extend the play, Wilson looks to create a play.

But, back to you question at hand about development. It's hard for me to be able to say with any certainty that he's hit his ceiling, or that we're looking at the QB he will be for the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of QB Steve Young was his first year in the Tamba Bay - very similar to CK(Young did run a 4.5 at the combine - just a step slower than CK). He then had years so sit behind Montana, and when he did get in the game when Montana was hurt, he played similar to CK in development at that point in his career. He could make some outstanding plays with his legs, but, didn't have the refined game Montana had. Young was a guy who made strides every year in the league and continued to grow. He was always a runner, but, the more comfortable he was in the system - and really, the more comfortable he was being himself and not trying to be Joe Montana - the better he played.

For me, CK is still rough on the edges and I'm not sure what grit sand paper is best for him at this stage. He's in his 4th year, so, he should be more refined in his play than he is, but, there are guys who've been in the league longer who are still less refined that CK is(Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, MIchael Vick) so that doesn't mean that he can't be successful - we've seen the success he's had.

Our expectations have to be on par with what he's best suited to do. He's not going to be a Kurt Warner - who is the epitome of the premier pocket passer, he's not going to be a Ben Roethlesburger, who's the, extend the play and use your big arm down the field, kind of guy, he's not the Russel Wilson, scramble around like a tard for 5 minutes and find a RB somehow guy.

I think what is hindering his development more than his running right now, is his gunslinger mentality. Think about Brett Favre, the guy was pretty much the same guy in year 2 as he was in year 15. He'd give you the great sometimes and sometimes give you the terrible. That's why he's got the most TD passes(for now) and the most INT's ever thrown.....

For me, the gunslinger mentality isn't as much about firing the ball into a small hole, it's the ignoring of the "little things". Gunslingers get that laser vision on where they want to throw the ball and sometimes it'll work and other times it tips the defense. To me, regardless of success being a gunslinger, he's got to grow more into a patient passer. Not necessarily taking more time on plays, but being patient on his throws, making sure to not hurry through all the steps because he knows the guy will be open. That's something that I can't answer through film.....

3. I see Brock coming back into the lineup. Cox has had production - no doubt about that. But, teams have also thrown at him a lot. A. Smith threw at him a number of times. Several times, they wouldn't complete a throw against him on one play and come back with the exact same play the next play and complete it, because they knew they could get it against Cox. I think he's a valuable player, but, I don't see a big upgrade over Brock. Remember, Brock had good production from the same spot last year, but I think Brock is more physical.

4. Fangio is compensating for the lack of pass rush through a myriad of ways. We're blitzing more than we normally do, we using different zone blitzes and we're stunting more on earlier downs than we have been. We've also had a couple guys step up and play better. Aaron Lynch in one of those guys. He's had several QB pressures(whether he's credited with them or not, I'm not sure) over the past couple weeks. The stunting though, did allow us to give up a couple decent runs against KC in the game.

Great thoughts, Jonnydel. I also should have solicited thl408's thoughts and others who want to chime in.

I see the same things and I really liked your Favre comparison. Favre was so frustrating to watch from an objective standpoint. He had all the arm talent and leadership, but he would throw 3 or 4 passes a game that could be boneheaded interceptions. Holmgren kept him under control (hence part of the reason why they won the 1996 SB) but after Holmgren left, Favre seemed to play brilliantly and undisciplined in the same games and generally wasn't as good.

I personally see Colin exercising more patience this season than last, specifically that he's looking for checkdown options to Gore and flat routes or crossers. But I think the interior OL play is really hurting further progress. He's got the pocket collapsing in his face too much and is unable to step into throws. I don't absolve him of his own blame because he misses reads/throws/subtle sidestep options to buy time.

I also agree regarding Wilson. Using the term, "point guard" is a good one for him IMO. He distributes the ball in a free-for-all, "street ball" type of offense a la at your local gym. Bevell does have structure to their offense, but it is clearly designed to send certain types of athletes on the boundaries and stretch the defense while allowing Wilson to run around in crazy 8's while someone improbably gets open. It's not a disciplined, structured offense which is why they can be beaten when a team plays sound, disciplined pass-rush and coverage. Wilson also benefits from the tremendous attention defenses must pay to Lynch. When I see Wilson do traditional drop backs, his reads are extraordinarily simple (quick hitters to TEs or on easy crossing routes, or as in the GB game, just poor coverage with a wide open WR). When I see Wilson sitting in the pocket trying to look downfield, he freezes a ton and doesn't find guys (or he can't see), and inevitably when a DE collapses the pocket and pressures him, he bails on the pocket and starts that scrambling schtick of his. Disciplined defenses pursue and bring him down. Undisciplined/badly talented defenses don't and he either scrambles for an inexcusable first down, or finds someone who broke open (finally).

Can you clarify how you think CK7 is more developed than Stafford or Cutler? I'm curious.

#5: SCTMotF!

1Q 3rd & 4
KC: Follow concept. Most clearing routes are vertical routes that clear an area for another route to work underneath. The Follow concept uses a clearing route that is horizontal. Below, the red crossing route is the 'clearing route' while the yellow crossing route works the vacated area by coming into the open space.


The first crossing route occupies Wilhoite and gets him to step to his left.


With Wilhoite out of the way, the second crossing route works the area by following the clearing route. Ward, playing over the top, is in no position to defend the short throw.


Gain of +7.

Thanks a lot, JDL!!!

Now I can't f**ken focus on work!!

jonnydel, can't wait to see the cut ups of the running plays. On so many run plays, Gore/Hyde didn't get touched till they were 7-8 yards past the line of scrimmage. Excellent blocking from Iupati, Miller, Kilgore, and Staley.

I also agree regarding Wilson. Using the term, "point guard" is a good one for him IMO. He distributes the ball in a free-for-all, "street ball" type of offense a la at your local gym. Bevell does have structure to their offense, but it is clearly designed to send certain types of athletes on the boundaries and stretch the defense while allowing Wilson to run around in crazy 8's while someone improbably gets open. It's not a disciplined, structured offense which is why they can be beaten when a team plays sound, disciplined pass-rush and coverage. Wilson also benefits from the tremendous attention defenses must pay to Lynch. When I see Wilson do traditional drop backs, his reads are extraordinarily simple (quick hitters to TEs or on easy crossing routes, or as in the GB game, just poor coverage with a wide open WR). When I see Wilson sitting in the pocket trying to look downfield, he freezes a ton and doesn't find guys (or he can't see), and inevitably when a DE collapses the pocket and pressures him, he bails on the pocket and starts that scrambling schtick of his. Disciplined defenses pursue and bring him down. Undisciplined/badly talented defenses don't and he either scrambles for an inexcusable first down, or finds someone who broke open (finally).

Can you clarify how you think CK7 is more developed than Stafford or Cutler? I'm curious.

You would think Washington did not do any film study. I was yelling at Orakpo and Kerrigan to stop crashing down the line.

#6: SCTMotF!

Last one of 'Someone Cover the Middle of the Field!' series

2Q 2nd & 7

KCA runs a play that I think is designed to bust pattern matching. This may be straight up man coverage, but based off of what Cox does, I think he and Wilhoite are pattern matching with #1 and #2 WR on their side of the field. As always, open to interpretation.


Cox sees that the #1 WR stays in to pass block. This frees him up to find work - find someone to cover, or give help to a team mate. Wilhoite will match #2.


Cox heads downfield to gain depth and give help to anyone that needs it. Just as he does that, #1 stops pass blocking and releases into a pattern. The middle of the field is wide open.


Hemingway gain of +16