New Orleans Saints Coaches film analysis

Originally posted by thl408:
49ers versus high blitz pressure #4

OT 3rd & 10

NO: cover0. 8 man pressure. This is about as big a gamble on defense as you're going to see.

The 49ers stack Boldin and SJ to force the hand of the NO CBs on that side of the field - they can't play press and will align with a cushion. With no safety help and the CBs playing with a cushion, any inside/outside breaking route, coupled with an anticipation throw will work. The CBs are basically preventing themselves from getting beat deep.


8 man pressure versus 7 man protection. Blue arrow is the unblocked rusher. ADavis is about to get beat around the edge. Shotgun snap, 3 step drop is completed. Kap is looking to his right. This moment in time is when Kap needs to start his throwing motion to get rid of the ball. The conservative action is to throw it away. Since he is looking to his right, there is a chance to hit Boldin's Out route (CB is bailing). The best case scenario would have been to initially look at Crabs' slant with his CB giving him a 7 yard cushion - lead Crabs to the middle of the field, the open area.


After having completed his 3 step dropback, Kap takes another hitch step backwards. I think he was preparing to escape the pressure from ADavis' defender. This could have been time spent releasing the ball - and taking a hit to make a play.


No escape.


Watch the extra 4th step Kap takes. I think that was a wasted action. Sacked for -7.






That was a harsh assessment of the play, but things have to happen fast when facing high pressure with an unblocked rusher. The QB is going to get hit, that's a given. What can he do before that happens? Kap did a good job not fumbling because he took a huge lick.

Yeah, this was that brutal 3-play series in OT (our final offensive series before Brooks happens)...we already shanked it off the tee on first down, mis-hit it again from the rough on 2nd down and now we've got a 3rd and 10 again in a fired up Superdome in OT knowing the defense is going to bring the heater. This sack, in real time is just under 3 seconds AND we need 10 yards here; each route takes 3+ seconds to run and there isn't a lot of urgency here either by the WR's. Reviewing it again on my DVR, perhaps his best and only real option is a big-time anticipation throw to Crabtree at the bottom of the formation on a square-in to the middle of the field. Unfortunately, Boldin is probably the primary read as Johnson clears out that area for him (you can see CK has no chance to come back to the left to Crabtree). But honestly, even passing to Crabtree here is risky...the other two guys were easily covered (a go-route and CK was sacked before Boldin even turned out his route). Here were the comments in the HaRoman thread for context:

The final offensive series of OT just pretty much wrapped it up with a bow for me. Hyde is gashing the Saints tired defense for 25 yards on 3 straight plays (2 off tackle with lead blockers and 1 inside). Well done!

Then, in comes Gore. The Saints take a collective sigh of relief and gear up for the run up the middle on first down by showing a pre-snap 9-man run blitzing box against only 1 WR "option." 2nd and 10 now. How did they stuff us?

Welp, the pattern continues and we're in 2nd and 10+...again. Now what? The stadium is rocking, the crowd has caught their collective breath after that "give-me" play and are now screaming the roof off again. What's next HaRoman?

2 WR sets, pinched inside tight, against a 5 man rush...Crabtree runs a 25 yard out against double coverage and of course, CK is instantly pressured and throws a short-stop-to-first-base short-hop at Crabrees feet who unfortunately, forgot his first-baseman glove. Fortunately it was ONLY incomplete. CK has to make up his mind at 2.5-seconds and he goes with the primary read, naturally. Again, the design wasn't too bad and had two underneath outlets (pretty well covered though) but obviously, these guys are rarely the primary receiver save for drag routes in any of our passing designs (blitz or no blitz).

3rd down and 10...you KNOW Ryan is bringing the house, the crowd is in it even more now and what do we call? An OC should be FIRED for this play call. Knowing that CK, at most, is going to have only 2 seconds to throw, HaRoman dial up a 3-WR set go-route. The shortest route, an out-pattern, hasn't even broken to the right before CK is on the ground.

THIS is just flat out poor personnel usage and situational awareness and putting your young QB and OL against the 8-ball in an away game in a very loud stadium. We are lucky 1) CK didn't throw an INT, 2) Didn't fumble when he got sacked and 3) CK didn't get seriously hurt (he was DRILLED).

Now, if someone wants to come in here and explain how these 3 calls can be laid at "execution" or poor OL play, poor CK decisions, CK held the ball too long, WR's can't get separation, etc. I'd LOVE to hear it. Seriously.

As you can tell, I wasn't too happy. LOL. We just handed the game to the Saints IMHO at that time...thankfully, Brooks happened right after this...again!

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

can we get a breakdown of the fingering Grahm received, courtesy of The Joker?

The joker saw a hole open up in the defense and he exploited it!

The joker showed very poor execution. He was in such a hurry to grap some nfl ass, he didn't look anyone off, totally telegraphed. It's obvious that this joker is a one read guy. Way too many "pats" before the eventual "cup".

The CBs were all aligned with an 8-9 yard cushion. This is easily seen presnap by Kap. The moment Kap saw (or should have seen) the full house blitz coming, that's when he should know that the entire middle of the field is open. That means Crabs wins on his route based on the positioning of the CB (loose over the top, outside leverage) and Crabs' route (slant). IMO, Kap was not doomed by this playcall. I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be regarding this playcall, so we'll just agree to disagree.

Originally posted by thl408:

The CBs were all aligned with an 8-9 yard cushion. This is easily seen presnap by Kap. The moment Kap saw (or should have seen) the full house blitz coming, that's when he should know that the entire middle of the field is open. That means Crabs wins on his route based on the positioning of the CB (loose over the top, outside leverage) and Crabs' route (slant). IMO, Kap was not doomed by this playcall. I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be regarding this playcall, so we'll just agree to disagree.

Thl, I think you assessment was right...that extra hitch step wasn't needed. That is when he should have hit crabs over the middle. As you the play call on third down, I'm fine with it because crabs route would have been good for a first and that was what was needed in ot. I kinda put this particular sack on kap.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Query execution was interrupted

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

In the "over" alignment you have the "1" technique on the weakside instead of the strong side in the "under" technique. You then have the OLB's shading the gap of the Tackles - that's what makes it an "over" set. By having the "1" on the weakside, any power runs to the weakside will not have the ability for a guard and tackle combo block on the DT. Like the "under" set makes it hard for pulling guard to get around to the strong side without letting the DT slip through, the "over" set provides that for the weakside. This is how the "3" technique is able to slip into the backfield. Ideally, you wouldn't have your Guard pulling towards the play side if he has the "3" on his side, as the "3" is usually taught to attack the guard and go with him if he pulls.

This is part of that chess game in the trenches and using different fronts to combat each other. The first run I showed was in the 1st quarter this was in the 2nd. In the 2nd half, I even saw NO uses some 3-4 balanced and "over" alignments as well. They were very varied in the fronts they showed.

I don't know about anybody else seeing this picture, but that's 8 men in the box. Running on this defensive formation is suicide. Now, having said that, what the new Orleans saints did in the first half was drop out of this formation and go zone. The 49ers should make defenses pay for doing these false looks. Because the alignment is 8 men in a box and they are not in the best alignment for a pass play in this circumstance, even if they do drop into zone.

One of the counters I like against 8 men in the box and then dropping into zone is the TE drag under. The play made famous by Steve Young and brent Jones. Where Brent runs a drag route opposite the play fake and Steve play fakes to the strong side and runs to the weakside and the TE releases and goes to the Weakside. Unfortunately, when they ran this play, VD dropped an easy 3rd down pass. VD is still not 100% in my opinion.

One solution is to get Vance more involved in the passing game, or get Bruce Miller to act as a TE. He seems to have much more reliable hands than VD at this moment with all his assorted aches and pains. We really need a functional and reliable TE that operates in the mid-range passing tree and VD isn't the guy in my opinion. His hands are questionable and a detriment on an offense that is so heavily TE dependent. Vance isn't progressing as fast as I'd like either, and I don't know why. If the 49ers do intend on keeping this vertical offense, they really have to get the TE position productive. It just won't be very consistent otherwise. They really need to draft another TE to shore up this position next year.

I think the playcalling is there, but the execution is not. All this talk about getting rid of G-ro is premature. I think they are developing a very dangerous passing attack, and I like the playcalls, however the execution is still not there. I think the power off tackle is a great bread and butter play and it seems defenses have to go 8 men in a box to counter it and stop it. That's what you want defenses to do, so that now you can get the TE to wrong foot the defense - ie with the fake run and toss to the TE. The problem is that the TE's haven't been very reliable in this offense this season, and to me the problem is execution more than playcalling. That puts pressure on the WR's to be productive, and again the problem is that our WR's have pedestrian speed and defenses get comfortable in closing in on them in the 2nd half, and just shuts down our passing game. G-ro then tries to free up the WR's in the 2nd half with play passes, but that isn't going to work very well if your WR's run 4.7 against CB's that run 4.4 and 4.5, they can recover quickly and still cover the WR in the case of a successful play pass fake (in my opinion).

If you count the amount of potential blockers we have there's 8 guys there. We only had 1 wideout. So, we have 8 blockers for an 8 man box - theoretically, we have hat-on-hat blocking ability. Also, the run I showed earlier for 11 yards was against an 8 man box. It's not necessarily suicide, there are ways to work around the 8th element in the box. It does make your execution all the more important though.

True though, the TE can be very effective against the stacked box in the passing game if executed properly. However, if you are able to run on a 8 man box, you can completely demoralize and dominate a team in a game. We had some runs that were effective against the 8 man box and some that weren't. If you were gonna pass every time a team shows the 8th presence, you become highly predictable and all a team has to do is show you the 8 man box and be prepared for the pass. You have to at least try and smash the boulder with the sledge hammer. You will get it to crack from time to time.

I think you hit the big issue here. ***Predictability*** I think running against an 8 man front to intimidate an NFL defense is counter productive. The reason is that NFL talent is pretty evenly spread among the 32 teams. You will not be able to physically intimidate most NFL defenses simply because they are as big and strong as you are. Maybe in College, where the talent level is more uneven, and maybe the bottom 4 NFL teams, but I doubt you can run over the average 8-8 team over and over again and expect to consistently gain yardage.

Another issue is predictability in the area of attack. It's one thing to choose run vs pass, and it's also another thing to choose to attack the left side of the defense via run or the right side via run. In the play you illustrated, the offense chose to run continually to the left, and finally got stuffed. I think, if looking back on that play in hindsight, maybe running to the right, or a toss play to the right would have had better success. At least it should have crossed up the defense that is slanting to the left to stop a left side running attack.

I think G-ro's offense will stand the test of time. I know there is a lot of folks clamoring for his head, but I truly believe he does not have all the right pieces in place yet. I also believe that it has been successful (as in getting us into the NFC CG without Crabtree, for example, for straight years) because it is based on deception, and not the philosophy of trying to overpower a defense. Read Option, the play pass, and the AR philosophy is just 3 examples of very deceptive plays that are in this offense. I really think execution is the problem. Specifically at the TE level and because the WR's simply just don't have the speed needed to operate his passing schemes.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
The CBs were all aligned with an 8-9 yard cushion. This is easily seen presnap by Kap. The moment Kap saw (or should have seen) the full house blitz coming, that's when he should know that the entire middle of the field is open. That means Crabs wins on his route based on the positioning of the CB (loose over the top, outside leverage) and Crabs' route (slant). IMO, Kap was not doomed by this playcall. I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be regarding this playcall, so we'll just agree to disagree.

Thl, I think you assessment was right...that extra hitch step wasn't needed. That is when he should have hit crabs over the middle. As you the play call on third down, I'm fine with it because crabs route would have been good for a first and that was what was needed in ot. I kinda put this particular sack on kap.

So here is the objective question...Boldin looks like the primary reciever to be cleared out by Johnson (common route for us) based on the play design and where CK looks the whole time (from what I can see). You both are assuming in the loud dome, CK can and has the freedom to audible and check to Crabtree as the primary read? Or if not, he s/h gone there anyways? Just for discussion...not challenging here.

Originally posted by NCommand:

So here is the objective question...Boldin looks like the primary reciever to be cleared out by Johnson (common route for us) based on the play design and where CK looks the whole time (from what I can see). You both are assuming in the loud dome, CK can and has the freedom to audible and check to Crabtree as the primary read? Or if not, he s/h gone there anyways? Just for discussion...not challenging here.

Kap has shown in the past, that he had no problem ignoring the conceptside and going backside. I think his thought process in this particular play is boldin at the sticks, then crabs on the skinny. I think his thought should have been "I see heavy blitz look, CB playing off, middle should be open, we need a first down". Perhaps that hitch step, is he realization of just this and by that time it was too late.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

Walk in TD.

Willis would have made that tackle.

damn boone took on two defenders lol

So to summarize the four times that NO sent 6, 7, or 8 man pressure and review some of the questions that it was hoping to answer:
1. Was the correct protection called and executed?
2. Were there hot routes?
3. Why was the play not successful?

#1
- One free rusher
- Boldin's drag
- Bad throw, or bad route by Crabs (too much depth on route)?


#2
- One free rusher into Kap's face as Hyde and ADavis look to block same guy
- Two short slants in the middle of the field.
- Very poor blitz pickup. No chance for Kap as he completes his dropback.


#3
- Excellent protection and blitz pickup
- Boldin (slot) sees his CB blitz and immediately turns around to prepare for a target.
- Kap goes for the big play to Crabs who didn't earn any separation.


#4
- One free rusher
- No short hot route unless Crab's slant is considered 'hot'
- Poor protection + no anticipation throw

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So here is the objective question...Boldin looks like the primary reciever to be cleared out by Johnson (common route for us) based on the play design and where CK looks the whole time (from what I can see). You both are assuming in the loud dome, CK can and has the freedom to audible and check to Crabtree as the primary read? Or if not, he s/h gone there anyways? Just for discussion...not challenging here.

Kap has shown in the past, that he had no problem ignoring the conceptside and going backside. I think his thought process in this particular play is boldin at the sticks, then crabs on the skinny. I think his thought should have been "I see heavy blitz look, CB playing off, middle should be open, we need a first down". Perhaps that hitch step, is he realization of just this and by that time it was too late.

NC, there is no need to audible out of anything. The play remains the same. Once the full house blitz was coming, he could have looked to a different WR - instead of Boldin's Out, look at Crabs' slant. Maybe he doesn't even have to look at Crabs. Once the blitz is seen, and the middle of the field is vacated, just throw to the open space that Crabs will soon occupy. Many times the hot read is the backside slant.

By the way, I'm not suggesting this was an easy thing to do on the "vs high pressure #4" play - to complete a pass to Crabs (or Boldin). Had Kap done so, I would have cut the play up and raved about how excellent of a play it was.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

49ers versus high blitz pressure #4

OT 3rd & 10

NO: cover0. 8 man pressure. This is about as big a gamble on defense as you're going to see.

The 49ers stack Boldin and SJ to force the hand of the NO CBs on that side of the field - they can't play press and will align with a cushion. With no safety help and the CBs playing with a cushion, any inside/outside breaking route, coupled with an anticipation throw will work. The CBs are basically preventing themselves from getting beat deep.


8 man pressure versus 7 man protection. Blue arrow is the unblocked rusher. ADavis is about to get beat around the edge. Shotgun snap, 3 step drop is completed. Kap is looking to his right. This moment in time is when Kap needs to start his throwing motion to get rid of the ball. The conservative action is to throw it away. Since he is looking to his right, there is a chance to hit Boldin's Out route (CB is bailing). The best case scenario would have been to initially look at Crabs' slant with his CB giving him a 7 yard cushion - lead Crabs to the middle of the field, the open area.


After having completed his 3 step dropback, Kap takes another hitch step backwards. I think he was preparing to escape the pressure from ADavis' defender. This could have been time spent releasing the ball - and taking a hit to make a play.


No escape.


Watch the extra 4th step Kap takes. I think that was a wasted action. Sacked for -7.






That was a harsh assessment of the play, but things have to happen fast when facing high pressure with an unblocked rusher. The QB is going to get hit, that's a given. What can he do before that happens? Kap did a good job not fumbling because he took a huge lick.

Yeah, this was that brutal 3-play series in OT (our final offensive series before Brooks happens)...we already shanked it off the tee on first down, mis-hit it again from the rough on 2nd down and now we've got a 3rd and 10 again in a fired up Superdome in OT knowing the defense is going to bring the heater. This sack, in real time is just under 3 seconds AND we need 10 yards here; each route takes 3+ seconds to run and there isn't a lot of urgency here either by the WR's. Reviewing it again on my DVR, perhaps his best and only real option is a big-time anticipation throw to Crabtree at the bottom of the formation on a square-in to the middle of the field. Unfortunately, Boldin is probably the primary read as Johnson clears out that area for him (you can see CK has no chance to come back to the left to Crabtree). But honestly, even passing to Crabtree here is risky...the other two guys were easily covered (a go-route and CK was sacked before Boldin even turned out his route). Here were the comments in the HaRoman thread for context:

The final offensive series of OT just pretty much wrapped it up with a bow for me. Hyde is gashing the Saints tired defense for 25 yards on 3 straight plays (2 off tackle with lead blockers and 1 inside). Well done!

Then, in comes Gore. The Saints take a collective sigh of relief and gear up for the run up the middle on first down by showing a pre-snap 9-man run blitzing box against only 1 WR "option." 2nd and 10 now. How did they stuff us?

Welp, the pattern continues and we're in 2nd and 10+...again. Now what? The stadium is rocking, the crowd has caught their collective breath after that "give-me" play and are now screaming the roof off again. What's next HaRoman?

2 WR sets, pinched inside tight, against a 5 man rush...Crabtree runs a 25 yard out against double coverage and of course, CK is instantly pressured and throws a short-stop-to-first-base short-hop at Crabrees feet who unfortunately, forgot his first-baseman glove. Fortunately it was ONLY incomplete. CK has to make up his mind at 2.5-seconds and he goes with the primary read, naturally. Again, the design wasn't too bad and had two underneath outlets (pretty well covered though) but obviously, these guys are rarely the primary receiver save for drag routes in any of our passing designs (blitz or no blitz).

3rd down and 10...you KNOW Ryan is bringing the house, the crowd is in it even more now and what do we call? An OC should be FIRED for this play call. Knowing that CK, at most, is going to have only 2 seconds to throw, HaRoman dial up a 3-WR set go-route. The shortest route, an out-pattern, hasn't even broken to the right before CK is on the ground.

THIS is just flat out poor personnel usage and situational awareness and putting your young QB and OL against the 8-ball in an away game in a very loud stadium. We are lucky 1) CK didn't throw an INT, 2) Didn't fumble when he got sacked and 3) CK didn't get seriously hurt (he was DRILLED).

Now, if someone wants to come in here and explain how these 3 calls can be laid at "execution" or poor OL play, poor CK decisions, CK held the ball too long, WR's can't get separation, etc. I'd LOVE to hear it. Seriously.

As you can tell, I wasn't too happy. LOL. We just handed the game to the Saints IMHO at that time...thankfully, Brooks happened right after this...again!

I reviewed the two plays prior. A gore run to the left for -2, and a pass to crabs for incomplete. To me that play looked like an audible. When the Saints showed blitz, Colin twirled his hands in the air for an audible, and it looked like a designed run to me. In other words, I don't think this was a pass play, but a run play to get closer to Dawson's field goal range. I think if it was a designed play, Colin took too deep a drop and if he could have shortened his drop, he could have run out of there for a big gain. **if it was a designed QB run play**

I agree with everybody if it was a designed pass play, it was a bone head play call, and the failure of Colin to audible to a hot route was a failure in execution.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

So here is the objective question...Boldin looks like the primary reciever to be cleared out by Johnson (common route for us) based on the play design and where CK looks the whole time (from what I can see). You both are assuming in the loud dome, CK can and has the freedom to audible and check to Crabtree as the primary read? Or if not, he s/h gone there anyways? Just for discussion...not challenging here.

Kap has shown in the past, that he had no problem ignoring the conceptside and going backside. I think his thought process in this particular play is boldin at the sticks, then crabs on the skinny. I think his thought should have been "I see heavy blitz look, CB playing off, middle should be open, we need a first down". Perhaps that hitch step, is he realization of just this and by that time it was too late.

NC, there is no need to audible out of anything. The play remains the same. Once the full house blitz was coming, he could have looked to a different WR - instead of Boldin's Out, look at Crabs' slant. Maybe he doesn't even have to look at Crabs. Once the blitz is seen, and the middle of the field is vacated, just throw to the open space that Crabs will soon occupy. Many times the hot read is the backside slant.

IMO this really is no more than a two read play. I think Johnson's clearing route would really only be thrown at in an "alert" blown coverage situation. You basically have an out route sticks plays and a skinny post on the other side to get a first down.

Originally posted by thl408:
By the way, I'm not suggesting this was an easy thing to do on the "vs high pressure #4" play - to complete a pass to Crabs (or Boldin). Had Kap done so, I would have cut the play up and raved about how excellent of a play it was.

I totally get what you two are saying (and I esp. love your earlier points about throwing quick outs knowing pressure is coming and the CB's are playing off) but I think you may be putting too much on CK here. 1) The play design is for Boldin as the primary read; 2) The hitch to me is b/c when he hits his drop, neither Johnson or Boldin are close to being open (and at this point, he's dead meat) and 3) You are also assuming Crabree's route is as it ended up. Given a lot of the routes on the non-concept side, Crabtree, to me, looks like the ONLY WR who's watching what's going on and perhaps, breaks off his route to help CK, but at that point, he's already 6-feet under. Usually, those non-concept routes are run very lazy and are go-routes. Was this a go-route initially as well?

Either way, he has NO time to come back to the left on a break-off or designed square-in by Crabtree.

Like you said, this decision would have had to be made up pre-snap (via red-80 or kill) and just go with it b/c he's only got one shot here. Period. He certainly doesn't have in-play time here if he starts out on the concept side.

And with CK, to me, he seems like a QB that is going to go with the primary play design (good soldier) and trust the design (he's going to trust Boldin will be clear here and pick up the first down). If anything, I give him a bit of credit for NOT throwing that out b/c if he does, that could easily have been a pick-6.

Originally posted by thl408:
By the way, I'm not suggesting this was an easy thing to do on the "vs high pressure #4" play - to complete a pass to Crabs (or Boldin). Had Kap done so, I would have cut the play up and raved about how excellent of a play it was.

Absolutely...certainly not suggesting you are even remotely being hard on him here either. It was just a tough position to be in, period. I'm not sure too many veterans would have done better, cough, fumble by Brees, cough.