ROGER CRAIG should be in CANTON!

Originally posted by Patton:
Would have 6 super bowls if not for Craig.

And if wasn't for Craig we may only have two.

The vindictiveness of 49er fans is truly endless.

Originally posted by ninerjok:
How the hell is a Kurt Warner who has 1 Super Bowl or a Joe Thomas who didn't win Jacks**t in the hall before Roger, that's absolute b******t.

So winning championships is the main factor? Hate to break it to you its not and Joe Thomas is absolutely belongs in the HOF.

Rogers three 1,000 yd seasons hurt him the most in an era where running backs was true bell cow type guys. Really the only thing he has going for him is he was the first player to record 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in a season.

He'll get in eventually but his career stats aren't that great.
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Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
You have to have played on the east coast, been a Madden cover or just be a Dallas Cowboy practice squad player to go into the HoF now…they (the NY media and Dallas) HATE Eddie D's dynasty 49ers with perpetual hatred

Well put Doc.

Originally posted by 49erKing:
If any 49er deserves to get in it's Watters imo.

Watters really hurt himself with his "For who? For what?" short arming over the middle press comments. It framed him as a selfish player who was a bad teammate, even though nowadays it would be framed as wise not to risk a head injury. He was absolutely one of the top RBs of the 90s, though.

I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

f**k no

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

f**k no

Isn't he on the R Craig level?
should be Hall of Fame, meaning the all time greats, not Hall of Very Good

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
You have to have played on the east coast, been a Madden cover or just be a Dallas Cowboy practice squad player to go into the HoF now…they (the NY media and Dallas) HATE Eddie D's dynasty 49ers with perpetual hatred

Well put Doc.

I feel like a big part of the problem is that the HoF put way too many 60s Packers, 70s Steelers and 70s Cowboys in. So in recognition to this they started being far less likely to put in more peripheral players from later dynasties. 80s/90s 49ers, 90s Cowboys and 00s Patriots have had a much harder time getting in unless they were the more obvious candidates when compared to those earlier eras. Also, with more teams came more opportunities to recognize great players on non-championship teams.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

f**k no

Isn't he on the R Craig level?
should be Hall of Fame, meaning the all time greats, not Hall of Very Good

Barber doesn't have the "change how to play the position" impact that Craig did. It's one of Craig's strongest HoF arguments, as one of the purposes of the HoF should be a reflection of how the game evolved by including players that were central to those evolutions.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

f**k no

Isn't he on the R Craig level?
should be Hall of Fame, meaning the all time greats, not Hall of Very Good

I'm not the one to ask. Craig was before my time so I'll let some of the more seasoned fans make that argument. But with Tiki he wasn't even a top 3-5 RB ever his entire career Vs his contemporaries

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think he's a HOF maybe ring of honor
should Tiki Barber be in the HOF?

f**k no

Isn't he on the R Craig level?
should be Hall of Fame, meaning the all time greats, not Hall of Very Good

Barber doesn't have the "change how to play the position" impact that Craig did. It's one of Craig's strongest HoF arguments, as one of the purposes of the HoF should be a reflection of how the game evolved by including players that were central to those evolutions.

Was that RC, or was that Bill Walsh and his WCO?

Barber 10k+ career rush yds, 15k+ scrimmage yds. 67 TDs, 3 PBs, 1 year with MVP votes
Craig 8k+ rush yds, 13k+ total, 73 TDs, 4 PBs, 1 year with MVP votes

pretty similar resumes, gotta bank on the championships and the dual threat, to get RC over the line

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Was that RC, or was that Bill Walsh and his WCO?

It was both. Walsh had the idea, Craig needed to execute it. Both were needed for it to succeed. Otherwise it was just theory.

Originally posted by 49erKing:

Originally posted by 9moon:
Roger can't get in unless Watter's IN!!

If any 49er deserves to get in it's Watters imo. Here are the regular season fantasy averages + some other stats for HOFers Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas, and Edge James along with Watters and Craig. Half point PPR. Craig is definitely the worst fumbler of the group. They all played from 144ish to 182ish regular season games so it's a good baseline.

Fumble Rate:

Curtis Martin: 0.17 per game
Thurman Thomas: 0.27 per game
Edge James: 0.30 per game
Ricky Watters: 0.30 per game
Roger Craig: 0.44 per game

Fantasy points per game:

Ricky Watters: 15.68
Edge James: 15.53
Curtis Martin: 15.19
Thurman Thomas: 13.14
Roger Craig: 10.37

# of 1,000 yd+ rushing seasons:

Curtis Martin: 10
Thurman Thomas: 8
Ricky Watters: 7
Edge James: 7
Roger Craig: 3

# of Pro Bowl Seasons:

Curtis Martin: 5
Ricky Watters: 5
Thurman Thomas: 5
Roger Craig: 4
Edge James: 4

# of All-Pro Seasons:

Thurman Thomas: 5
Curtis Martin: 5
Edge James: 3
Roger Craig: 2
Ricky Watters: 0

# of Super Bowl Championships:

Roger Craig: 3
Ricky Watters: 1
Thomas & Martin = 0
Edge = never made playoffs

You're making my case for a separate wings in the HOF for the good players and the really great players. Ive always felt that if you need to look up a player's stats and compare them with someone already in then he probably isn't a TRUE HOF player. If you are a HOF player people know it. They don't need to look up your stats.

My problem with comparing sats is we often are comparing guys from different eras. Everyone knows that it's a more pass friendly game now so QBs and WRs are going to rack up big numbers. That doesn't mean they're better than a Q^B or WR from the 70s or 80s that didn't have the numbers. It's similar to what happens at the scouting combine. They get enamored with the numbers and forget about what they saw on the field.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Patton:
Would have 6 super bowls if not for Craig.

And if wasn't for Craig we may only have two.

The vindictiveness of 49er fans is truly endless.

Your statement isn't true. My statement is undoubtedly true. I love Roger Craig, he had a ton of great plays and moments for the Niners, but he also had one of the worst moments as well.

Originally posted by Patton:

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Patton:
Would have 6 super bowls if not for Craig.

And if wasn't for Craig we may only have two.

The vindictiveness of 49er fans is truly endless.

Your statement isn't true. My statement is undoubtedly true. I love Roger Craig, he had a ton of great plays and moments for the Niners, but he also had one of the worst moments as well.

My statement could very well be true - who knows how the 1984, 1988 and 1989 teams do without Craig. I just see it as bad form to whittle down Craig's 49ers career to one really bad moment when there were hundreds of really good moments, which happens far too often IMO.