NY Giants coaches film analysis

People, just read the thread and stop attacking the guys who make this threat great just because they don't post about how much we allegedly suck.

To whoever wants to refute anything these guys say, show counter examples and cut up your own film.

Originally posted by GORO:
Please show Chris Borland plays so we can all smile! Love that play when he hit the Guard into the ball carrier!

wish i could - internet still down

Originally posted by awp8912:
Lol, these coaches film threads never criticize Roman or Harbaugh. Always the players and their lack of execution within this feces of a system. Just because the players are struggling in this system doesn't make it any less made out of feces.

Give any other OC and HC this offense and the results will look 100% different.

4 years now going but yeah it's Kap or the O-line or VD or Crabtree.

Jimmy Raye tried! As much as I hate the Offense we are still winning games.

Originally posted by GORO:
Please show Chris Borland plays so we can all smile! Love that play when he hit the Guard into the ball carrier!

Ive been scouring youtube for a Borland highlight of the last 3 games… that would be cause for any niner fan to smile.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

+ Show all quotes
Riiight, just because we don't grab a pitchfork to join your "fire Roman" mob, we have a bias and an agenda. If you missed it, just above I said that there was a play, and I have already seen more plays, where I don't like the play design/call. This isn't the first, nor the last time that I have called out the coaches. I don't fully agree that it's all on Kap either, but that doesn't mean jonnydel has a bias. If anything he is one of the most objective posters on this forum. You know what's bias? Seeing the punt coverage unit take the field and bumping the Fire Roman thread. Hang on NC, you will get to see cut ups that will make you wett as I put the coaches on blast. It will come in due time.

I should not have tied you into that comment but fans see you both, as one. I know you've worked very hard on branching out and looking not at just the end results, but context and big picture and association of events that lead to a fail or success of such still shots/gifs. I respect that. You know that.

And nobody was out with a pitch fork after year 1...a few after the Superbowl, a few put theirs down d/t the WR personnel excuse but now, the pitch forks are out in full force for a reason. It's been 4 years now, under 2 different QB's, with incredible talent on offense and WE'VE REGRESSED.

So yes, forgive the fans who see CK, the WR's, the OL in pass protection, mental lapses, concentration issues, perpectual patterns as the end result of a piss poor offensive philosophy, poor coaching and lack of attention to detail, little to no accountability, etc.

Some would have you believe that if you put Peyton Manning in this offense, we'd suddenly be a top 5 offense. Fine. That's great. Some fans here would say if you put Manning in this offense, he'd be physically carted off on a stretcher afte week 2 (meaning CK makes this offense even move forward).

But if you're going to claim objectivity, you need to show it. I know even the biggest anti-HaRoman fans will at least admit when CK effs up, a RB failed in pass protection, the OL struggled, bone-headed penalties, TO's, etc, cost us.

Some of the posts in here have tried to balance this out with context but, ironically, have been completely ignored.

How about we start with every first down play given that we're still 30th in the league on first down production puting our entire offense against the 8-ball on 2nd and 3rd downs.

It's like jonnydel and I are being shamed because we don't blast the coaches enough. Yet when we say over and over that it is a collective fail from everyone on offense, it falls on deaf ears. When we show a player fail, feel free to expand and tell us why the position coach did a poor job. Why can't Boone and Iupati pick up stunts? Why can't VD and Crabs catch the ball? Blame the appropriate coach. If you want to make it convenient and blame the OC, go a couple steps further and blame the guy that hired the guy that brought on this coaching staff.

How about you buy NFL Rewind and show me what I fail to show.

Not at all. You two are probably the most respected posters on this site right now no matter what school of thought you come from. You've earned that. Do you think ANYONE likes to bash HaRoman? Well, maybe pasodoc and cciowa. LOL. j/k. Sort of.

And one does not NEED NFL Rewind to review series of events; sequence of plays. I provided that in these threads several times...what I liked about the play calling series and what I didn't. Isn't THAT objective? Yet, this is the part that falls on deaf ears with the pro-HaRoman crowd in here. Numerous examples of context, series of plays, perpetual negative patterns, etc...all ignored.

If we're going to talk objectivity here, you've gone on record yourself saying that 50% of the offensive woes are d/t CK. That would fall under jonnydel's perspective as well. So naturally, that's how this thread spins. And that's fine! But, what about the rest of the crowd that feels CK isn't being put in position to succeed? Where are those stills/gifs? Where is that context?

If we're going to talk offense, let's talk offense. What do you two make of this...and please, ALL, chime in as well. Jonnydel and thl have provided a forum for us all. So let's discuss this offense objectively.

First down issues and predictability remain salient. This stat points to offensive play selection (mostly running on first downs) so you can eliminate CK from fault, OL pass protection and TE and WR issues. OL run blocking is our strength as is Gore/Hyde/Miller.

Saints Game:
2nd and 4 at NO 4 (13:05) (Shotgun) F.Gore left end for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN. P.Dawson extra point is GOOD, Center-K.Nelson, Holder-A.Lee.
2nd and 10 at SF 32 (10:09) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep left to A.Boldin (C.White).
2nd and 5 at 50 (8:44) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to V.Davis.
2nd and 12 at NO 33 (7:15) C.Kaepernick pass short middle to V.Davis to NO 25 for 8 yards (R.Bush). Pass 5, YAC 3
2nd and 8 at NO 18 (5:12) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NO-J.Jenkins, Encroachment, 5 yards, enforced at NO 18 - No Play.
2nd and 10 at SF 23 (1:29) (Shotgun) M.Ingram left tackle to SF 21 for 2 yards (C.Borland).
2nd and 1 at SF 25 (14:19) B.Miller right guard to SF 28 for 3 yards (B.Deaderick).
2nd and 17 at SF 21 (12:38) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to A.Boldin (K.Lewis).
2nd and 10 at SF 40 (8:24) F.Gore right guard to SF 44 for 4 yards (P.Haralson).
2nd and 12 at NO 48 (6:12) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass deep middle to A.Boldin to NO 25 for 23 yards (R.Bush). Pass 18, YAC 5
2nd and 10 at NO 46 (2:32) (Shotgun) F.Gore left guard to NO 45 for 1 yard (R.Humber).
2nd and 8 at SF 24 (14:17) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to B.Miller.
2nd and 9 at SF 44 (12:52) F.Gore left tackle to 50 for 6 yards (P.Haralson).
2nd and 19 at SF 11 (7:44) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass short left to S.Johnson to SF 15 for 4 yards (R.Humber; C.White). Pass -1, YAC 5
2nd and 6 at NO 40 (6:13) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to B.Cooks to NO 45 for 5 yards (C.Culliver). Pass -2, YAC 7
2nd and 7 at SF 26 (2:09) C.Kaepernick pass short right to F.Gore to SF 28 for 2 yards (R.Humber). Pass -4, YAC 6
2nd and 10 at SF 17 (12:12) C.Kaepernick pass short left to M.Crabtree to SF 23 for 6 yards (R.Humber). Pass 4, YAC 2
2nd and 4 at SF 38 (10:06) C.Kaepernick right end pushed ob at SF 43 for 5 yards (K.Vaccaro).
2nd and 6 at SF 47 (8:48) F.Gore right guard to SF 49 for 2 yards (J.Jenkins).
2nd and 10 at SF 22 (1:43) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass short left to A.Boldin to SF 28 for 6 yards (C.Lofton). Pass 5, YAC 1 The Replay Official challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short left to A.Boldin (C.Lofton). The Saints called timeout, and the officals chose to REVIEW the play, with the result that the previous play was REVERSED. After the reversal, the Saints were given their timeout back.
2nd and 10 at NO 27 (1:00) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short left to A.Boldin.
2nd and 8 at NO 38 (13:45) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to K.Stills to NO 43 for 5 yards (P.Cox). Pass 5, YAC 0
2nd and 5 at SF 47 (12:11) M.Ingram right tackle to SF 43 for 4 yards (C.Borland; M.Wilhoite).
2nd and 1 at SF 44 (9:52) C.Hyde right guard to SF 47 for 3 yards (C.Jordan).
2nd nd 10 at SF 47 (8:31) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep left to M.Crabtree.

Of the 25 2nd downs we had this game here is the breakdown:
17 times 25 times of >7 to go averaging 10.6 yards left to go

Giant's Game:
2nd and 5 at SF 25 (6:18) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to V.Davis.
2nd and 18 at SF 41 (4:08) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep left to M.Crabtree (D.Rodgers-Cromartie). PENALTY on NYG-D.Rodgers-Cromartie, Defensive Pass Interference, 35 yards, enforced at SF 41 - No Play.
2nd and 17 at NYG 17 (1:52) (Shotgun) C.Hyde right tackle to NYG 13 for 4 yards (J.McClain, J.Hankins).
2nd and 2 at SF 47 (14:35) F.Gore right end ran ob at NYG 37 for 16 yards (Q.Demps).
2nd and 1 at NYG 28 (13:43) C.Hyde right tackle to NYG 29 for -1 yards (M.Kiwanuka, J.McClain).
2nd and 11 at NYG 24 (11:09) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep middle to M.Crabtree (D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2nd and 7 at NYG 26 (7:46) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep left to V.Davis.
2nd and 8 at SF 17 (3:57) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass deep left to M.Crabtree to SF 42 for 25 yards (D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2nd and 11 at SF 41 (2:24) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep left to B.Lloyd.
2nd and 10 at SF 41 (12:32) (Shotgun) F.Gore right end to NYG 48 for 11 yards (J.McClain, A.Rolle).
2nd and 9 at SF 33 (6:11) C.Kaepernick pass short left to S.Johnson to SF 41 for 8 yards (Chy.Brown).
2nd and 5 at NYG 43 (3:59) (Shotgun) F.Gore up the middle to NYG 38 for 5 yards (M.Patterson, M.Herzlich).
2nd and 10 at NYG 38 (3:05) (Shotgun) C.Hyde up the middle to NYG 34 for 4 yards (M.Herzlich, J.Hankins).
2nd and 7 at SF 49 (:43) (No Huddle, Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to R.Jennings (C.Borland).
2nd and 6 at NYG 40 (14:25) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to V.Davis
2nd and 8 at SF 23 (9:15) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass short left to A.Boldin pushed ob at SF 30 for 7 yards (Chy.Brown).
2nd and 5 at SF 38 (7:22) (Shotgun) C.Hyde left tackle to SF 39 for 1 yard (A.Rolle).
2nd and 2 at SF 10 (4:05) F.Gore right guard to SF 13 for 3 yards (J.McClain, D.Kennard).
2nd and 9 at SF 25 (2:34) F.Gore right tackle to SF 27 for 2 yards (A.Rolle, M.Kuhn).

Only 19 2nd down opportunities this game:
12 of the 19 times of >7 yards to go averaging 10.4 yards to go

30th in the league in first down production for the season. Only the Lions and Raiders are worse.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-per-first-down-attempt/2014/

Playing with only 2 downs and behind the 8-ball. It's hard to do...

Originally posted by thl408:

What we need here is someone that cuts up the s**ttiest 49er plays and playcalls to satisfy that crowd. I aint' got time fo that.

Nor should you. lol

Originally posted by thl408:
It's like jonnydel and I are being shamed because we don't blast the coaches enough. Yet when we say over and over that it is a collective fail from everyone on offense, it falls on deaf ears. When we show a player fail, feel free to expand and tell us why the position coach did a poor job. Why can't Boone and Iupati pick up stunts? Why can't VD and Crabs catch the ball? Blame the appropriate coach. If you want to make it convenient and blame the OC, go a couple steps further and blame the guy that hired the guy that brought on this coaching staff.

How about you buy NFL Rewind and show me what I fail to show.

Week after week you guys are blaming our overall production on micro situations. No ones saying our players didn't stink it up this week. Its been 3-4 years and nothing has changed even though personnel has come and gone. I don't need to watch every down of coaches film to conclude our players failed to execute once again. No ones debating that. What I am saying and others is that this clearly has to be a systemic issue and not an execution lapse week in week out, based on the macro stats these past 3-4 years has shown time and time again.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I had to stop reading. I respect the work you and thl do here but there is a very obvious bias and agenda here to be taken too seriously at this juncture.

+ Show all quotes
Riiight, just because we don't grab a pitchfork to join your "fire Roman" mob, we have a bias and an agenda. If you missed it, just above I said that there was a play, and I have already seen more plays, where I don't like the play design/call. This isn't the first, nor the last time that I have called out the coaches. I don't fully agree that it's all on Kap either, but that doesn't mean jonnydel has a bias. If anything he is one of the most objective posters on this forum. You know what's bias? Seeing the punt coverage unit take the field and bumping the Fire Roman thread. Hang on NC, you will get to see cut ups that will make you wett as I put the coaches on blast. It will come in due time.

I should not have tied you into that comment but fans see you both, as one. I know you've worked very hard on branching out and looking not at just the end results, but context and big picture and association of events that lead to a fail or success of such still shots/gifs. I respect that. You know that.

And nobody was out with a pitch fork after year 1...a few after the Superbowl, a few put theirs down d/t the WR personnel excuse but now, the pitch forks are out in full force for a reason. It's been 4 years now, under 2 different QB's, with incredible talent on offense and WE'VE REGRESSED.

So yes, forgive the fans who see CK, the WR's, the OL in pass protection, mental lapses, concentration issues, perpectual patterns as the end result of a piss poor offensive philosophy, poor coaching and lack of attention to detail, little to no accountability, etc.

Some would have you believe that if you put Peyton Manning in this offense, we'd suddenly be a top 5 offense. Fine. That's great. Some fans here would say if you put Manning in this offense, he'd be physically carted off on a stretcher afte week 2 (meaning CK makes this offense even move forward).

But if you're going to claim objectivity, you need to show it. I know even the biggest anti-HaRoman fans will at least admit when CK effs up, a RB failed in pass protection, the OL struggled, bone-headed penalties, TO's, etc, cost us.

Some of the posts in here have tried to balance this out with context but, ironically, have been completely ignored.

How about we start with every first down play given that we're still 30th in the league on first down production puting our entire offense against the 8-ball on 2nd and 3rd downs.

It's like jonnydel and I are being shamed because we don't blast the coaches enough. Yet when we say over and over that it is a collective fail from everyone on offense, it falls on deaf ears. When we show a player fail, feel free to expand and tell us why the position coach did a poor job. Why can't Boone and Iupati pick up stunts? Why can't VD and Crabs catch the ball? Blame the appropriate coach. If you want to make it convenient and blame the OC, go a couple steps further and blame the guy that hired the guy that brought on this coaching staff.

How about you buy NFL Rewind and show me what I fail to show.

Thank you!!!

I'm sorry if we don't tend to show enough of the coaches failing. You want to know one reason why??? Because it's not the cause of most of our play fails.....

Here's an excerpt from my OP

"The passing game: To me, the passing game was very sub-par this game. There were definite plays to be made, but, for one reason or another we didn't execute. For all the talk and work that was put into the passing game this year, it was very disappointing to watch. In the end - this falls squarely on the shoulders of CK. In the last thread I gave a scouting report on CK for the past few years - from what I see. In that, I mentioned that CK is one of those "2 steps forward, 1 step back" kind of QB's in his development. This was a "1 step back" game. What frustrated me the most was our inability to execute plays and throws that we've done probably hundreds of times.Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/180298-giants-coaches-film-analysis/#UBjue6Jvu6RbXJky.99"

Note how I intentionally put these statements in here. This is my opinion - I'm quantifying that and trying to add it so that everyone knows that everything I say is from what I see. I do not, nor will every claim, to be the know-all, see-all of football. I talk about what I see and if that doesn't jive with what you think I should see or what you want me to see - then you can disagree. As for everyone else who would like to know how I arrived at those conclusions, you'll have to wait until I get internet going again.

Sometimes, the zone is like a bunch of bigfoot hunters who don't go into the wood themselves telling everyone who goes into the woods that don't find bigfoot that they're obviously biased for not seeing bigfoot......

Anyhoo - just venting.......

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by thl408:
It's like jonnydel and I are being shamed because we don't blast the coaches enough. Yet when we say over and over that it is a collective fail from everyone on offense, it falls on deaf ears. When we show a player fail, feel free to expand and tell us why the position coach did a poor job. Why can't Boone and Iupati pick up stunts? Why can't VD and Crabs catch the ball? Blame the appropriate coach. If you want to make it convenient and blame the OC, go a couple steps further and blame the guy that hired the guy that brought on this coaching staff.

How about you buy NFL Rewind and show me what I fail to show.

Week after week you guys are blaming our overall production on micro situations. No ones saying our players didn't stink it up this week. Its been 3-4 years and nothing has changed even though personnel has come and gone. I don't need to watch every down of coaches film to conclude our players failed to execute once again. No ones debating that. What I am saying and others is that this clearly has to be a systemic issue and not an execution lapse week in week out, based on the macro stats these past 3-4 years has shown time and time again.

In that case, then we have to differ on the root cause.

To me, when I see a QB miss a read against cover 4 when the defense showed, pre-snap, a 4 shell look and stayed in that look post snap and the QB never looks to the side of the play to beat a cover 4 and has an open TE - it's not a system issue.

When you have plays that are called at the right time against the right defense and the players don't get it - it wouldn't matter who the play caller is, it's not going to work. I don't see anything that the top offenses in the league do - system wise, that we don't. I see us get good calls(not all the time) and the players fail.

When you see that on the film - how can I, in any way, say that if we had a different play caller the play would work??? If we had Mike McCarthy calling the exact same play as we did, is that going to change how well the players execute??

^^^^^

I said after the game he still has some issues with his reads...got blasted for it. People either aren't honest about whats going on or they don't understand whats going on. Its not hate, just an observation.

Boone should be our RT. Move Davis inside. Said it... like 3 years ago. Still saying it. Boone gets beat sometimes inside with leverage - because he's out of position at 6'9 and guys get under him. Davis is well built to handle the interior comparatively, even if he's a touch on the tall side. Would help limit his not so great lateral movement.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Thank you!!!

I'm sorry if we don't tend to show enough of the coaches failing. You want to know one reason why??? Because it's not the cause of most of our play fails.....

Here's an excerpt from my OP

"The passing game: To me, the passing game was very sub-par this game. There were definite plays to be made, but, for one reason or another we didn't execute. For all the talk and work that was put into the passing game this year, it was very disappointing to watch. In the end - this falls squarely on the shoulders of CK. In the last thread I gave a scouting report on CK for the past few years - from what I see. In that, I mentioned that CK is one of those "2 steps forward, 1 step back" kind of QB's in his development. This was a "1 step back" game. What frustrated me the most was our inability to execute plays and throws that we've done probably hundreds of times.Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/180298-giants-coaches-film-analysis/#UBjue6Jvu6RbXJky.99"

Note how I intentionally put these statements in here. This is my opinion - I'm quantifying that and trying to add it so that everyone knows that everything I say is from what I see. I do not, nor will every claim, to be the know-all, see-all of football. I talk about what I see and if that doesn't jive with what you think I should see or what you want me to see - then you can disagree. As for everyone else who would like to know how I arrived at those conclusions, you'll have to wait until I get internet going again.

Sometimes, the zone is like a bunch of bigfoot hunters who don't go into the wood themselves telling everyone who goes into the woods that don't find bigfoot that they're obviously biased for not seeing bigfoot......

Anyhoo - just venting.......

I've said it before, you guys do an absolute fabulous job of cutting up the films and showing the concepts, routes etc. I also love that you give ur analysis. Personally, I love looking a football throw the lens of a playbook...you show me what the concepts where and what the coverages are and I can make my own determinations on the effectiveness. It does make it right or wrong, is just makes it my opinion.

Again, thanks for putting in all the hard work and it's very much appreciated.

jonnydel for his future film breakdowns

thl408 for all his hard work.

Thanks for being patient with us webzoners who feel very strongly about the team. I think everybody here respects and appreciates all the hard work you do to post these film breakdowns up. At least I do.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
In that case, then we have to differ on the root cause.

To me, when I see a QB miss a read against cover 4 when the defense showed, pre-snap, a 4 shell look and stayed in that look post snap and the QB never looks to the side of the play to beat a cover 4 and has an open TE - it's not a system issue.

When you have plays that are called at the right time against the right defense and the players don't get it - it wouldn't matter who the play caller is, it's not going to work. I don't see anything that the top offenses in the league do - system wise, that we don't. I see us get good calls(not all the time) and the players fail.

When you see that on the film - how can I, in any way, say that if we had a different play caller the play would work??? If we had Mike McCarthy calling the exact same play as we did, is that going to change how well the players execute??

We did have Mike MCarthy call plays Alex Smith rookie year and it was awful to watch.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Boone should be our RT. Move Davis inside. Said it... like 3 years ago. Still saying it. Boone gets beat sometimes inside with leverage - because he's out of position at 6'9 and guys get under him. Davis is well built to handle the interior comparatively, even if he's a touch on the tall side. Would help limit his not so great lateral movement.

I believed this was the best thing to do as well! Remember when Anthony Davis pushed around Suh at the goal line. He would probably be a pro bowl guard. And boone is really good at tackle.