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Originally posted by kujon11:
it's a terrible play on kaeps behalf and here's why.
once kaep starts rolling to his left, there's only one receiver out there. all the safety had to do was run straight to the ONE receiver on that half of the field.
Originally posted by Niners816:Ok we'll have to agree to disagree re: reads & progressions......
Originally posted by Jd925:
#1) It was a lame attempt at play-action if any...
#2) Why do you think it's a spot read? If it were, Kap would not be looking straight on the drop back...he'd have his head looking right so you can get three reads.. but my contention is our offense isn't designed that way.. I just don't see many progressions consistently ever .. since 2011...
#3) My contention is that Boldin was the primary read on a curl.. and typically Kap waits but the linebacker was all over Boldin early (it's like the Raiders knew aka Tarell Brown and Carlos Rogers told the D how simplistic our pass offense is).. and if there was a read it was Vernon as 2nd read.. it's almost as if the offense is designed to make the QB wait for the primary receiver to get open..
#4) Even if it were a spot read... Woodson was playing his zone on the cover 3 and Kap could have seen it on his drop back... but if it was a spot you keep your eyes on the right side... Woodson would have had Miller early on and played the middle of his zone between Miller & Vernon.
#5) Yes the fullback would have still been a better play, but the offense is built around primary reads and if Miller ain't it all you can hope for is a check down.. not a read from a progression..
#6) There was a 'spider Y banana off a power O' run at the goal line TD to Miller... you can see on that Miller was a primary read.. he didn't have to go through any progressions.... it just a play-action and primary to Miller... not even an attempt at progression.. hit the FB expecting the defense to bite on play-action.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/0ap3000000440152/Kaepernick-8-yard-TD-pass
#2 - Its really a two read progression, Flat - Curl...The corner is more of an alert for a bust in coverage.
#4 - this is the scary thing, he ran it very poorly - the primary in a spot concept is the back out of the backfield. He was wide open.
#5 - that's a problem IMO, Taking the open flat sets up second down nicely and we are working ahead of the chains
#6 - Spider is a playpass off of power, the FB acts like he is blocking then hit the flat, that is why he is open 90-95% of time. If by chance the FB is covered then you look to the TE or usually there is another WR coming underneath from the other side.
Originally posted by thl408:
It's now apparent to me that Kap's development curve has taken a step downwards. STL game had horrific pass pro, NO game had a bunch of dropped passes, NYG game was an early road game so you take whatever you can get - I had reasons for why he didn't look good against these teams. WAS was a bit of a rebound. I couldn't be sure of his struggles from the SEA game because SEA has such a good defense that makes many QBs look bad. However, after looking at the OAK game, I see that things are starting to snowball and he isn't sure of what he's looking at. There were a few plays in this game where he was looking at the route that was going to be open, but was hesitant in pulling the trigger. It's not that he has never made that throw before, but that he's unsure of it now. I can't help but think that a big factor in his regression over the past few games is due to lack of confidence from how the offense just hasn't been getting it done for the myriad of reasons.
OAK came with a healthy mix of man and zone coverage throughout the game. The 49er success in the passing game was seen when going at TBrown side of the field, not DJHayden. There was one possession in the 3Q where the 49ers settled for a FG instead of scoring a TD to go up 17-10. That was the turning point in the game imo. OAK would then score TDs on back to back possessions and that took the 49ers running game out of the gameplan.
The 49er ILBs were not good in pass coverage and it allowed OAK to hit some big plays over the middle. Not all were the fault of the ILBs as OAK hit for 4-5 chunk gains in the passing game. Carr made some very nice throws as he was often unrattled in the pocket. Fangio decided to bring 3 man pressure on some plays and the OAK Oline did well to give their WRs lots of time to get open with deep crossing patterns. OAK made it a point to line up their TE on Aldon's side of the field to help neutralize him. When that was done, Lynch didn't get enough snaps to assert his game from the other side. Why Skuta got the majority of the snaps is a head scratcher. OAK's Oline also did an envious job handling the line stunts by the 49ers, something the 49er's Oline has not been able to handle all season long.
It's getting harder and harder to watch these games again, but what's keeping me interested is watching the devolution of Kap's game. Not that I want him to fail, of course not, but seeing how fragile the confidence of a young QB is shows the importance of coaching and how a good support structure can help or hurt a QB's development. I have said in previous weeks that Kap's game has improved from last season, but as of now, I can't say that anymore.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's the first offensive play of the game. It was both from the offense and offensive in execution.
We're expecting man coverage - we get zone and Kap tries to force a play.
We'll start our in 21 Personnel and motion VD over to Boldin's side
This is really just a version of "spider 2 y banana". It's a play that Gruden pointed out on Monday night football. A lot of teams in the NFL run this play - it's an old Bill Walsh play. In Spider 2 Y banana, the FB is your primary target - used to beat man coverage. You'll get a natural pick motion out of VD and Boldin's route.
There's 2 things Kap has to know here.
1. When we motion VD across the formation - he should look at how the LB's shift. Because it's a single safety with a press on the single receiver side, it looks like man coverage. But, because of how the LB's shift when VD moves - it's not a man-coverage shift, it's a strong side shift for their defensive front. That indicates zone coverage. Really - Oakland pulls a play out of Seattle's book. They play cover 3 zone with man-coverage on the single receiver side.
2. because it's zone, with man on the backside - if he's going to throw the backside route, it has to be a timing route and he'll have to go to that route quickly in his progression.
We run a half hearted play action fake.
You can see that at this point - Kap has no pressure on him at all. Woodson is dropping back in his defensive coverage to help with VD underneath. This opens up Miller. It wouldn't be a big gain, but, it would be positive yards on first down.
Instead, he bails out to his single receiver side.
The safety never plays anything but expecting the receiver to head downfield.
Kap then throws the ball late and off his backfoot.
ends up with a pick. They tried to give CK a half field read and he tried to go to the backside - late and off a terrible platform.
Originally posted by Niners816:
I get what your saying it just tough to say with spot concepts. When I see those route combos, I think spot...but by its nature if ran right the way FB/HB will be open a majority of the time so it really does look like a one read thing. However in that particular game, there was a similar design for a different formation (I believe it was one back two Tights Form) in which he hit VD on really nice TD on the corner route.
I think the added playaction, it trying to play off of our heavy run lean and some times really makes it look like an all or nothing play. What pisses me off, is that ram game was game four last year and he ran it better than he did in game 13 year 3. IMO, something is just off...either with him or Harbs and Roman are dicking with the plays.
Originally posted by thl408:
After the INT, the 49ers defense forced a 65 yard FG - the best of a bad situation. The 49ers got the ball back and would convert just 1 first down - punt. Then OAK punted. Then the 49ers would get their lone TD on the ensuing drive. This is how that drive started off, with their longest pass play of the day.
1Q 1st & 10
49ers look to hit VD behind the LBs (High), or Crabs in front of the LBs (Low) using playaction.
OAK: cover3
Playaction gets the two orange ILBs to step forward as VD releases into his route.
Crabs' route attracts the attention of the curl/flat defender on the playside (blue line connected to Crabs). Boldin clears the deep 1/3 DB. This earns room for VD. When the 49ers ran this same play last week, the SEA LB was alert to the play as he turned around and found VD. The OAK LB here (orange) does not do that. The correct throw is to VD.
Kap targets VD and leads him well.
+23 yards
Originally posted by Jd925:
Yeah I have to see what play you're talking about with VDs route. I do agree there is something different this year than in the past... Roman supposedly made some drastic changes on offense before the beginning of the year and I think it was all those funky deep route designs..... and in the past we were running the ball more, and play-actions were a lot more effective even if they passed fewer times.... this year they are more pass heavy ... not sure if they ever balanced the playaction and run well in terms of faking out defenses in the past.... but they ran more often and it was effective which opens up the pass.. this year is worse because defenses seem to know our pass plays and we aren't running as much to get at least some positive yards to make 2nd/3rd downs easier.
Originally posted by Jd925:
To me I see one read...
Originally posted by thl408:
1st & 10:
Boldin +4 run on a Guard lead right.
2nd & 6:
Hyde +2 run on outside zone right.
---------------
3rd & 4
49ers sell out and execute several man busting concepts here as they look to get several picks (rub routes) and free up Boldin and Crabs/SJ. Crabs + SJ run the mesh concept. VD will look to pick the defender on Crabs. Crabs will look to run interference on the defender covering Boldin (blue). Before the play, Boldin goes in motion as a slot WR to join Kap in the backfield (green dash lines). Blue follows Boldin which indicates man coverage.
OAK: cover1
After playaction to pull up the LBs and cause a mess of bodies in the middle of the field, Crabs looks to get into the line of sight of the blue defender to cause hesitation and free up Boldin. VD picks the defender that is covering Crabs. Kap will target Boldin.
+7 yards. Crabs was also open as a result of all the defenders getting picked.
Originally posted by thl408:
1st & 10:
Boldin +4 run on a Guard lead right.
2nd & 6:
Hyde +2 run on outside zone right.
---------------
3rd & 4
49ers sell out and execute several man busting concepts here as they look to get several picks (rub routes) and free up Boldin and Crabs/SJ. Crabs + SJ run the mesh concept. VD will look to pick the defender on Crabs. Crabs will look to run interference on the defender covering Boldin (blue). Before the play, Boldin goes in motion as a slot WR to join Kap in the backfield (green dash lines). Blue follows Boldin which indicates man coverage.
OAK: cover1
After playaction to pull up the LBs and cause a mess of bodies in the middle of the field, Crabs looks to get into the line of sight of the blue defender to cause hesitation and free up Boldin. VD picks the defender that is covering Crabs. Kap will target Boldin.
+7 yards. Crabs was also open as a result of all the defenders getting picked.
Little better WR core this year, to bad it hasn't translated to more offensive success.
