Oakland Raiders coaches Film analysis

Originally posted by pete98146:
I don't think we have a choice but to buck our preference of building thru the draft. Fastest way to right the ship is to sign some veteran free agents to step in on the OL in the offseason. It's almost become priority #1 in my book.

Heck, I had OL envy looking at the Raiders last week. Did you see all the protection they gave Carr?

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the OL other than injuries and general malaise that extends throughout the entire offense.

The OL works as a unit and when you're constantly moving pieces around, moving guys around, it can greatly affect cohesion and the performance of the unit as a whole. I think guard is the main area where there needs to be improvement, particularly in pass blocking. Kilgore was doing a very good job at center until he got injured, Martin is still a rookie and he'll learn but when you have that many injuries hit you, its not enough to say "next man up." You need continuity on the OL.

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by tondiman:
Good Qb's make plays even with bad oline. they may not always win, but they make plays. KAP DOES NOT.

NO QB's make plays when defensemen are putting hands on them one and a half seconds after the snap. Arron Rodgers didn't do so well when Smith and Smith were beating the living daylights out of him every snap.

Brady self destructs when he has less than 2 seconds to throw. And that's low end. if he plays all game with pressure, the guy self destructs.


The ONLY QB's I've ever seen be able to cope with crap protection are Young, Cunningham, and Favre. All of them run, all of them can throw long, all of them needed an effective coordinator to thrive.

These are getting to be like amateur fisherman's stories. The time Kap gets to throw shrinks and shrinks with every new thread. Please post up gifs of Kap getting grabbed in 1.5 seconds. Odd that when I time the full speed gifs posted in here he seems to frequently get around 3 seconds.

Doesnt matter when hes grabbed. His reads are slower than we would like. Thats the poi.t.


Jd smith and lynch totally disappeated for us. Why?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's a missed opportunity in the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Kap's just a little slow in his reads.


Here, we start out in 22 Personnel. We motion VD over to the bottom.


It looks like Kap is trying to ask Miller to chip block - that's what I'd assume considering how the play is drawn up.


We then motion VM over to the top of the screen.


From here, we're going to run almost the same play the first INT came on - just out of a different formation and this time, we give a little better zone help on the backside.


Our play action fake does bring a couple guys up.


It looks like Oakland was focused on trying to take Boldin out of the passing game. You see the LB and Woodson close on Boldin's curl route. Oakland plays the concept side well. What CK needs to to here is move through this progression very quickly. You see the concept side is well covered - why? Because your two middle defenders are covering Boldin - that means the middle of the field will be open - you have an intermediate middle route on the backside.

You see Kap's not under immediate pressure, he's got an open VD - but he doesn't get to that read quick enough.


'From the endzone view you could see he was looking at VD's route - but he pulls down his throw - probably because it was coming a little late(I still think he could've gotten it in but I think he was scared of throwing another pick to the safety). He got to the right read, just too slow. He has to get through those reads faster. This is what Steve Young talked about when he said that these reads and knowing where to go on every play against every defense until it's reflexive. It's not reflexive yet, he's still digesting everything as it's happening and looking more at his receivers than the defenders.


After he pulls it down he gets sacked for 3 yards. Could've had a first down and move the ball, but instead....This is a sack that's on CK.

Jonnydel:

Good breakdown and I like the tie-in to Young's comments about being "reflexive." Given that Kap has made simple reads many times before, I have to conclude it's more than just a simple narrative that "he sucks now" or "Roman's awful" or something else. It seems to me that the degredation of the OL play (injuries, holdout, lack of leadership, ineffectiveness, etc) has had a cumulative effect on Colin. The OL is not bad on every play, and there are throws to be made (like above) that should be made quickly. But Colin is skittish because (1) the cumulative effect of the bad OL play has made him see ghosts, and (2) he desperately wants to make the big throw every play so he's forcing things and it is snowballing. He's trying so hard that he's making routine mistakes. This is all correctable, but in the offseason, not now. Do you agree with this or am I being too easy on him and you think Kap has been "unmasked?"

To me, this guy can be great but he has a long way to go. We gotta figure out how to get him better protection by rebuilding the OL somewhat. Then, we gotta either find a similar offensive system with a new HC, or find a system that Kap could learn quickly from a HC who is invested in him. Then we gotta restore the power run identity and keep allowing Kap to grow as a passer. Take the gradual approach instead of throwing him in completely into a full-field reading process.

I also had another thought I'd like to check against yours and thl408's film study. It seemed to me Kilgore was really coming into his own before he got hurt against Denver. I started thinking about it and outside of the Saints game, I cannot think of any game in which Kap looked quite as good navigating the pass game, field reads, and pocket after Kilgore went down. In the rams game prior to the Denver game, Gruden was praising Kap's play from the pocket. In every game after the Denver game, the OL has appeared to play worse, and Kap's play from the pocket slowly degraded and the progress that was there slowly dried up. I wonder if losing Kilgore had a bigger impact on the overall cohesion on the line and Kap's comfort than we all thought?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's a missed opportunity in the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Kap's just a little slow in his reads.


Here, we start out in 22 Personnel. We motion VD over to the bottom.


It looks like Kap is trying to ask Miller to chip block - that's what I'd assume considering how the play is drawn up.


We then motion VM over to the top of the screen.


From here, we're going to run almost the same play the first INT came on - just out of a different formation and this time, we give a little better zone help on the backside.


Our play action fake does bring a couple guys up.


It looks like Oakland was focused on trying to take Boldin out of the passing game. You see the LB and Woodson close on Boldin's curl route. Oakland plays the concept side well. What CK needs to to here is move through this progression very quickly. You see the concept side is well covered - why? Because your two middle defenders are covering Boldin - that means the middle of the field will be open - you have an intermediate middle route on the backside.

You see Kap's not under immediate pressure, he's got an open VD - but he doesn't get to that read quick enough.


'From the endzone view you could see he was looking at VD's route - but he pulls down his throw - probably because it was coming a little late(I still think he could've gotten it in but I think he was scared of throwing another pick to the safety). He got to the right read, just too slow. He has to get through those reads faster. This is what Steve Young talked about when he said that these reads and knowing where to go on every play against every defense until it's reflexive. It's not reflexive yet, he's still digesting everything as it's happening and looking more at his receivers than the defenders.


After he pulls it down he gets sacked for 3 yards. Could've had a first down and move the ball, but instead....This is a sack that's on CK.

I agree very much with your assessment of this play, also mentioned it in post #57. From the end zone camera, it looks like Kap never moved off of Boldin although I am not positive (he's either looking at Boldin or VD). He definitely starts his windup, but thinks twice about it. If he's pump faking to Boldin, then I have to ask "why?". If he's pump faking to VD and didn't want to throw it, I'd have to ask, "why not?".

When Kap sees two guys on Boldin, he needs to immediately, or like you said be 'reflexive', in knowing that if Boldin is doubled, it's coming from the two hook/curl zone defenders in the middle of the field. When zone coverage rolls to the strongside, the holes will be bigger on the weak side (where VD is). There will be a passing lane available to VD's In route. I hope that it's a case of just needing more reps. Cover3 is something Kap should work on beating because he sees A LOT of it.

Not having Anthony Davis this season has been a big loss

Here's the play right after the play in post#57 (and post #74)

2Q 3rd & 10
49ers: Slant-flat to Kap's left. Double Slants to Kap's right.
OAK: cover3 (I think)


Kap takes the shotgun snap and takes a 1 step dropback (equivalent of a 3 step rhythm throw). The curl/flat defender to the double slants side (CB lined up over Boldin) runs to the flat which defeats SJ's slant. The correct throw is to Boldin. Kap is mid windup targeting Boldin.


The throw hits Boldin in the numbers and is dropped. With the hook/curl defender near Boldin on his knees, Boldin could have gotten a little RAC. At least enough to convert the 3rd down.


Incomplete pass. Punt. Even when things go right for this offense offense, something goes wrong. Story of the season.

Which Raiders' defender is busted against Boldin? The Safety I think because he should stay always between the endzone and the deepest receiver???

Originally posted by communist:

Which Raiders' defender is busted against Boldin? The Safety I think because he should stay always between the endzone and the deepest receiver???

At the snap boldin had a db on him, that db dropped off to look at the flat/curl. Being that this is a smash concept that action red lights the curl and the corner route is the read and throw on a safety.

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Not having Anthony Davis this season has been a big loss

Agreed. In the passing game he's missed because JMart gets beat with bull rushes as well as speed rushes. At least with ADavis, it's just the speed rushes. In the run game, he is missed BIG TIME and is in another world compared to JMart's run blocking.

Originally posted by Adusoron:
.....
I also had another thought I'd like to check against yours and thl408's film study. It seemed to me Kilgore was really coming into his own before he got hurt against Denver. I started thinking about it and outside of the Saints game, I cannot think of any game in which Kap looked quite as good navigating the pass game, field reads, and pocket after Kilgore went down. In the rams game prior to the Denver game, Gruden was praising Kap's play from the pocket. In every game after the Denver game, the OL has appeared to play worse, and Kap's play from the pocket slowly degraded and the progress that was there slowly dried up. I wonder if losing Kilgore had a bigger impact on the overall cohesion on the line and Kap's comfort than we all thought?

Kilgore was silently the most consistent Olineman all season until he went down. He was not a punishing blocker by any means, but he rarely ever got dominated. MMartin is blowing blocking assignments and getting out worked on several plays per game. He shows good physicality on some plays and looks bad on others - typical for a rookie. It's excusable because he's just learning the ropes while being injured for the first part of the year and it didn't allow him to practice much with a leg injury.

When Kilgore went down, many of us understood how well he had been playing and the magnitude of the loss. But many of us were also excited to see MMartin in action and somehow I think that lessened the blow of losing Kilgore. Now that we have seen MMartin in extended action, I do miss Kilgore a lot and I'm sure the entire Oline misses Kilgore. MMartin should have won the Center job by being a better player by showing he was ready for the job, not by default (injury). Just didn't work out that way. Every time I see a defensive line stunt that goes unblocked I think how it could have been different had Kilgore been in and Boone not held out.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Jd925:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

2. They tried to simplify the passing game - and it still struggled. This is perhaps the strongest indictment against Kap. They tried to get him into a rhythm and simplify the reads and throws from him after the early pick. On the TD drive - almost all the throws were designed throws to that receiver. When it's like that, Kap threw on time and hit the receiver well. But, any plays they dialed up that required full field reads - he was slow in his reads at best and terrible in his reads at worst.

Lol. And what makes you think the HaRoman pass offense was ever complex?

How often do you see Kap scan the entire field other than on broken plays in the past? What about in his half of 2012 and in 2013...what about your QB Alex Smith in 2011 and half of 2012? Did Smith scan the field on most of his plays when he was a starter? How sure are you about the comment 'plays they dialed up up that required full field reads'?

Easy buddy


Full field read plays require looking at the entire design of the play and seeing what's being called. And yes, I saw that quite a bit when I looked at the film from when Alex was here. The difference when Alex was here, was that most teams were playing man-coverage against us and none of our receivers could beat a 1-1 coverage.

Now - to your "how often do you see Kap scan the entire field". Scanning the entire field and full field reads begin before the ball is ever snapped. It's looking at the pre-snap alignment and defense, seeing what they're most likely going to be in and then the next possible defenses and then using your post snap-read to double check the defense hasn't rotated into a different defense. You look at the defenders - not your own players.

What I've seen this far from our offense this season was incorporated much more full field reads to try and utilize all the weapons we have on the field. However, at this point, it's been too much for Kap to do and so in this game, there were far less a percentage of those plays called. They were trying to give him half field reads more and designed plays to make it easier for him. When he was given full field reads, he's often slow in his progression. I'll show several plays where he did end up getting to the right read - it was just late.

Seriously? So you are talking pre-snap scanning of the field? Lol. Wait seriously?

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by communist:


Which Raiders' defender is busted against Boldin? The Safety I think because he should stay always between the endzone and the deepest receiver???

At the snap boldin had a db on him, that db dropped off to look at the flat/curl. Being that this is a smash concept that action red lights the curl and the corner route is the read and throw on a safety.

I think the busted coverage is by the CB on Crabs (DJHayden). His assignment is deep 1/3 zone (it's cover 3). Hayden instead takes the Curl (Crabs) which exposes the area behind him for Boldin's route to exploit. Crab's route should be defended by the curl/flat defender, the defender that starts off lined up across from Boldin.

Originally posted by thl408:
I think the busted coverage is by the CB on Crabs (DJHayden). His assignment is deep 1/3 zone (it's cover 3). Hayden instead takes the Curl (Crabs) which exposes the area behind him for Boldin's route to exploit. Crab's route should be defended by the curl/flat defender, the defender that starts off lined up across from Boldin.

Ok. Why was he lined up over Crabs pre-snap. In order to show man coverage?

Originally posted by Jd925:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Jd925:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

2. They tried to simplify the passing game - and it still struggled. This is perhaps the strongest indictment against Kap. They tried to get him into a rhythm and simplify the reads and throws from him after the early pick. On the TD drive - almost all the throws were designed throws to that receiver. When it's like that, Kap threw on time and hit the receiver well. But, any plays they dialed up that required full field reads - he was slow in his reads at best and terrible in his reads at worst.

Lol. And what makes you think the HaRoman pass offense was ever complex?

How often do you see Kap scan the entire field other than on broken plays in the past? What about in his half of 2012 and in 2013...what about your QB Alex Smith in 2011 and half of 2012? Did Smith scan the field on most of his plays when he was a starter? How sure are you about the comment 'plays they dialed up up that required full field reads'?

Easy buddy


Full field read plays require looking at the entire design of the play and seeing what's being called. And yes, I saw that quite a bit when I looked at the film from when Alex was here. The difference when Alex was here, was that most teams were playing man-coverage against us and none of our receivers could beat a 1-1 coverage.

Now - to your "how often do you see Kap scan the entire field". Scanning the entire field and full field reads begin before the ball is ever snapped. It's looking at the pre-snap alignment and defense, seeing what they're most likely going to be in and then the next possible defenses and then using your post snap-read to double check the defense hasn't rotated into a different defense. You look at the defenders - not your own players.

What I've seen this far from our offense this season was incorporated much more full field reads to try and utilize all the weapons we have on the field. However, at this point, it's been too much for Kap to do and so in this game, there were far less a percentage of those plays called. They were trying to give him half field reads more and designed plays to make it easier for him. When he was given full field reads, he's often slow in his progression. I'll show several plays where he did end up getting to the right read - it was just late.

Seriously? So you are talking pre-snap scanning of the field? Lol. Wait seriously?

i have no idea what your sarcastic questions are in regards to....seriously......

Originally posted by thl408:

I think the busted coverage is by the CB on Crabs (DJHayden). His assignment is deep 1/3 zone (it's cover 3). Hayden instead takes the Curl (Crabs) which exposes the area behind him for Boldin's route to exploit. Crab's route should be defended by the curl/flat defender, the defender that starts off lined up across from Boldin.

That's right...still had the gif in my mind where it literally looks like a blown coverage by the slot guy. But your right in a cover 3 Hayden has deep responsibility on that side. You think kaps movement aided in Hayden's delay on covering the deep 1/3?