The 49ers 2015 Coaching Staff Thread

Originally posted by NinerGM:
This is advice for any job out there – if you're not doing the one thing you were principally hired to do chances are you're going to be fired very soon.

To me, that's the bottom line. Period. I don't care about the personality clashes, the d-bag approach to the media, pissing the NFL FO off, the refs having a field day with us b/c of Jim, the stale rah-rah approach, the 47 coaches on offense, etc. If you're going to make a change from Alex to CK, you better have a plan in place for him and the entire offense to evolve. Instead, it regressed with an arrow down. Jim was hired to bring back the WCO in SF and be a dominant force on offense while also being a great leader of men (coaches and players). By year four, he failed in all of that and it showed on the field.

I know we can live in the past but just like a player, unless you're an icon like Frank Gore, you don't rip up his contract, give him a 5-year deal at age 31 b/c of what he did for you in the past. The owner and GM need to look at the here-and-now and project into the future. Obviously, there were attempts at working out a deal despite that but it didn't work out, "together."

Turn the page.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good stuff! Naturally, I'm speaking collectively (from starters to backups all the way down to the PS) compared to the rest of the NFL.

I'd say re: the OL, we have 10 guys under contract with 1 FA who's a one-trick pony (albeit, he's great at pulling). All of them, say for one, Brandon Thomas, has played extensively in our system as well. I still believe this OL has way more talent than we realize and feel there just needs to be some minor personnel changes, switches and better coaching and scheme. I'm sure we'll still nab another OL in FA and in the draft. It's what we do. It was also obvious, guys weren't playing with any sense of urgency or playing up to their capabilities. None of the veterans. Scheme-wise, our biggest weakness is pass protection, so the coaches called for the most 20+ pass plays in the NFL despite passing way less than teams like the Pats. I'd say the best "starting" OL is probably Dallas. But we're probably deeper and should be able to compete right up there with a few changes IMHO.

For sure about the WR position. That said, even w/o Crabtree, we still have three proven apx. 1,000 yard receivers in Boldin, Johnson and VD. We had up to five with Crabtree and Lloyd. Some teams don't have one. Were they used correctly? Of course not. Like the OL, the WR weakness was top end speed that backed CB's deep off the LOS. That said, the strengths of the WR's were never go-routes anyway. They were proven in short area quickness, crossing patterns, horizontal attacks, finding holes in the zones, tough catches in traffic, in the seams, YAC, etc. I also think Patton and Ellington are way faster than some think but were never used, obviously. Boldin was rarely used in the slot to keep him clean esp. in the RZ and for jump balls (killed us in the Superbowl). I think, like the OL, there is way more talent than people realize. I think the best "starters" are either in Chicago or Dallas. We'll have to see what we do in FA or the draft to see if we can compete here or if collectively, this groups can produce similar results.

Great point about the QB position. Obviously, when CK has time, like any QB, he's going to tear you up esp. as a dual threat. I still love Johnson's game though and think his style matches up well with CK and what we try to accomplish. Gabbert? He may be a better fit now if we go to a more pure WCO. But you're right, there are better starting and backup combinations in the game there.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about scheme (philosophy). A good OC will get guys wide open and running free (you see this all the time on other teams), take advantage of defensive weaknesses, tendencies, etc.

I still think we have one of the most talented and deepest rosters collectively and would love to see a side-by-side match-up with any team in the NFL. Like when Harbaugh first arrived, I still have that same feeling today...that a few personnel moves need to be made, others utilized, some utilized better/properly, etc. and you'll see a WORLD of difference.

Teaching/coaching and esp. scheme is going to make a big difference in 2015...that's my hope anyway!

Good responses NC! I agree with you regarding general depth--backups are very good overall (if they keep a QB). There are concerns about some of the starters, however. If Logan has a great deal of input I have confidence that he will get more offense out of these players, just don't know if some of the parts need to be replaced.

Examples:

• OL is strong and big but are they quick enough and football-smart enough to become really good zone blockers? Smart tends to be a negative word when in question, but I mean...do they understand how to play the position? Is their vision good enough? Can they anticipate what the defense is going to do? Part of this is coaching. Did the coaches prepare the OL for what the D will do? So I expect an improvement here. I agree with one of your previous posts as well and would like to try Boone at RT or LT depending on Staley's health. Staley/Thomas/Kilgore/Davis/Boone with M Martin backing up would be a great line.
• WR is a strong position but not very diversified. I hope they get a speedster and a tall guy out of this draft...two things they don't currently have. But just as I'm warming up to the idea of taking Devin Smith in the first round (as OTC's mock has him) he's dropped to the third round in some mocks! If Baalke takes a WR in the first round he needs a sure thing. If Kevin White is gone then perhaps they go elsewhere in the first round.
• QB--was Johnson on the team because he was Harbaugh's guy? Or is he NFL level? I like him as well...so hope they keep him and see if he can develop into a steady backup. Was confused by the Gabbert pickup and thought they were trying to resurrect him so they could use him in a trade...but signed for one year? Doesn't compute.

I might actually have to go visit training camp this year...very up in the air about all of this but still excited for the changes.

The offense will be improved. Hopefully 49ers can average 24 points per game and the defense can maintain and even get better with Bowman & Willis and Aldon,LYNCH and Justin Hurrah.

Balke needs to have a Massive offseason to offset his SHODDY 2012 & 2013 Drafts. Im talking about you AJJ and LMJ and Vance & Lemonier!!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
This is advice for any job out there – if you're not doing the one thing you were principally hired to do chances are you're going to be fired very soon.

To me, that's the bottom line. Period. I don't care about the personality clashes, the d-bag approach to the media, pissing the NFL FO off, the refs having a field day with us b/c of Jim, the stale rah-rah approach, the 47 coaches on offense, etc. If you're going to make a change from Alex to CK, you better have a plan in place for him and the entire offense to evolve. Instead, it regressed with an arrow down. Jim was hired to bring back the WCO in SF and be a dominant force on offense while also being a great leader of men (coaches and players). By year four, he failed in all of that and it showed on the field.

I know we can live in the past but just like a player, unless you're an icon like Frank Gore, you don't rip up his contract, give him a 5-year deal at age 31 b/c of what he did for you in the past. The owner and GM need to look at the here-and-now and project into the future. Obviously, there were attempts at working out a deal despite that but it didn't work out, "together."

Turn the page.

You two ought to be Life Coaches because that's a package of two very important messages: do what you were hired to do and when things change, turn the page. Thank you.

NC that is as good a summary as I have seen and where we are and is spot on.

OL...talented but needs coaching, plus a player or two in FA or draft both (hi)
WRs...grossly misused or underused, and we still have 3 1000 yd guys, need one top flite WR in draft or FA and one farther down the list.
Coaching....res ipsa loquitur...the thing speaks for itself. We have a boatload of talent out there, top 3 in league IMO, maybe even better. Coaching was pure ca ca last yr esp as yr wore on. Put on good HC and position coaches with all that talent and no telling how good we can be. IMO we have plenty of talent for a SB run, but coaching will make it or break it.
RBs---Hyde, maybe frank, could use another in draft
CBs., DBs....Well, it isn't that you have to have 3 all pro CBs to win the SB. You have to have the scheme to beat them and bellichek did with short stuff in the middle. Man, that isn't that hard and we may have all the talent we need. What we lacked was coaching. Fangio was good, but not on pass D. Again, depends on coaching.
DL...need a draft pick (hi) and maybe a FA. Depends on who stays or not.
LBs we have more than enough goodies here. Health is question.
TEs....desperately in need of coaching here. And we could add one in PS.
QB....again, kap was uncoached last yr or badly coached. What if he can be coached to be 20% better? It could happen, but he needs a mentor, something he hasn't had except when alex was here. OC or QB coach, or HC. Doesn't matter, but he needs that sideline chat between possessions. Backup...Blaine is a project and not a backup. We need a backup and if one comes available, we should get him. NO more , betting on kap being healthy all season. that was stoopid.

Return guy....if a good one, take him in PS.

Looking at that , it is obvious that we aren't that far off. Bottom line is we need way better coaching than last 4 yrs, esp last 2. We get our coaching staff going on all the positions, and if those coaches are as good as some of us think, look out.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Its the nature of the beast. There are 32 teams in this league and sometimes you go up against better players and coaches and just get flat out beat. That shouldn't negate the fact that the moment JH came aboard we went from a perennial bottom feeder to a perennial top 3 team and stayed that way for three straight years.

There aren't any perfect coaches, not by a mile. And no team is going to win a championship every year.

And when you say "when things were bad, they were horrid," what do you mean? We didn't get blown out in the super bowl or in any meaningful games. Maybe the games were horrid for us fans, but to say we came 7 yards from a title is horrid from a performance standpoint, is just not accurate. Objectively, we weren't as bad as you say we were.

This is a non linear argument- because JH had screw ups those screw ups cost SB and big games, therefore it's ok because no coach is perfect and (implied) JH did the best possible with the teams he had because no team wins a championship every year.

No coach is perfect
no one team wins the championship every year

clock mismanagement did cost big games
half time adjustments were missig
hired as an offensive guru, the offense never became statistically significantly better, the defense did however

this is advice for any job out there – if you're not doing the one thing you were principally hired to do chances are you're going to be fired very soon.

The ravens were blitzing from play #1 in the Super Bowl. After running many plays on offense, we get to inside the 10 and call, as Alex Smith pointed out, passing plays with no "pressure beaters". We didn't lose to the ravens, we were the superior team that beat ourselves with inferior coaching

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Doubt this! Most of us are looking at the bright side and we're just fans. The players are heavily invested in succeeding next year and most will be finding ways to get pumped about the changes. Logan is similar to Tomsula in his ability to relate and motivate so they will have a guy on each side of the ball giving reasons for optimism.

Actually the tweet says a player....

regardless 53 people plus ps players aren't always going to agree about everything. Who does? What's annoying is that if there's discontent, the reporter should write an actual article about the extent to which the discontent runs throughout the team. Reporters tweeting one liners is lazy reporting and isn't more than a rumor. It's not like these things can't be investigated. There was an endless amount of investigative stories about JHs rift with management. I'm not overly optimistic, I'm just saying if there's another side to all this, report on it formally don't shoot out a tweet.

Agree but was responding to Sus saying half the team probably felt that way...and I definitely disagree because it's human nature to want to think you can win, that you have a chance.

Branch says that he talked to one player who was not happy with the new staff.

Some other pundit says that he talked to 3 players who were dismayed or disgusted with the new staff.

So, the rumors and reports have us with 3 to 4 players who are not happy.

Anybody's guess is at least as good as mine about the level of player discomfit, but I am not even going to venture a guess.

Originally posted by buck:
Branch says that he talked to one player who was not happy with the new staff.

Some other pundit says that he talked to 3 players who were dismayed or disgusted with the new staff.

So, the rumors and reports have us with 3 to 4 players who are not happy.

Anybody's guess is at least as good as mine about the level of player discomfit, but I am not even going to venture a guess.

In the end it doesn't matter unless guys come to camp with a bad attitude...and I don't see that happening. Guys are making a lot of money and the coaches are going to be organized and demanding...no time for pouting or being negative if you want to keep your job. The niners have a strong group of leaders and they should keep everything on an even keel.

The only time it might matter is if the team begins to lose badly, and then we will all know...not just the players. I don't anticipate this but a few on this site do.

My guess is that the coaching for the OL and WRs will be better and the team's offense will look better.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Doubt this! Most of us are looking at the bright side and we're just fans. The players are heavily invested in succeeding next year and most will be finding ways to get pumped about the changes. Logan is similar to Tomsula in his ability to relate and motivate so they will have a guy on each side of the ball giving reasons for optimism.

Actually the tweet says a player....

regardless 53 people plus ps players aren't always going to agree about everything. Who does? What's annoying is that if there's discontent, the reporter should write an actual article about the extent to which the discontent runs throughout the team. Reporters tweeting one liners is lazy reporting and isn't more than a rumor. It's not like these things can't be investigated. There was an endless amount of investigative stories about JHs rift with management. I'm not overly optimistic, I'm just saying if there's another side to all this, report on it formally don't shoot out a tweet.

Agree but was responding to Sus saying half the team probably felt that way...and I definitely disagree because it's human nature to want to think you can win, that you have a chance.

Branch says that he talked to one player who was not happy with the new staff.

Some other pundit says that he talked to 3 players who were dismayed or disgusted with the new staff.

So, the rumors and reports have us with 3 to 4 players who are not happy.

Anybody's guess is at least as good as mine about the level of player discomfit, but I am not even going to venture a guess.

I think our players knew our offense was broken, not the defense

then we fire all the defensive staff (minus Mangini and Tomsula) and promote Geep Chryst to OC

I'm sure some of the players were ok with getting rid of Harbaugh, if we were going to upgrade. Since we whiffed on an OC, and got rid of popular Fangio, I'm sure there's at least 2-4 players who don''t like it

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Doubt this! Most of us are looking at the bright side and we're just fans. The players are heavily invested in succeeding next year and most will be finding ways to get pumped about the changes. Logan is similar to Tomsula in his ability to relate and motivate so they will have a guy on each side of the ball giving reasons for optimism.

Actually the tweet says a player....

regardless 53 people plus ps players aren't always going to agree about everything. Who does? What's annoying is that if there's discontent, the reporter should write an actual article about the extent to which the discontent runs throughout the team. Reporters tweeting one liners is lazy reporting and isn't more than a rumor. It's not like these things can't be investigated. There was an endless amount of investigative stories about JHs rift with management. I'm not overly optimistic, I'm just saying if there's another side to all this, report on it formally don't shoot out a tweet.

Agree but was responding to Sus saying half the team probably felt that way...and I definitely disagree because it's human nature to want to think you can win, that you have a chance.

Branch says that he talked to one player who was not happy with the new staff.

Some other pundit says that he talked to 3 players who were dismayed or disgusted with the new staff.

So, the rumors and reports have us with 3 to 4 players who are not happy.

Anybody's guess is at least as good as mine about the level of player discomfit, but I am not even going to venture a guess.

I think our players knew our offense was broken, not the defense

then we fire all the defensive staff (minus Mangini and Tomsula) and promote Geep Chryst to OC

I'm sure some of the players were ok with getting rid of Harbaugh, if we were going to upgrade. Since we whiffed on an OC, and got rid of popular Fangio, I'm sure there's at least 2-4 players who don''t like it

all this blather does not mean a thing, except for people who breathlessly use this stuff as a way to promote their hatred for the front office and this staff. bottom line is they can say or tweet or whatever anything they want to now. what matters is when the players actually start to meet and work out as a team in camps and practice.. if they do not like things, they will dog it and will get cut. I find it amusing so many give so much more validity to these "unnamed sources" then to people like boldin and ck who have been very public in their support for the new staff

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
I think our players knew our offense was broken, not the defense

then we fire all the defensive staff (minus Mangini and Tomsula) and promote Geep Chryst to OC

I'm sure some of the players were ok with getting rid of Harbaugh, if we were going to upgrade. Since we whiffed on an OC, and got rid of popular Fangio, I'm sure there's at least 2-4 players who don''t like it

When you win as much as Jim did compared to what we did prior to his arrival players wanted him to stick around so when he left they wanted nothing short of Bellicheck replacing him. A proven Super Bowl winning coach. Oh well those guys don't grow on trees so we gotta roll with Tomsula

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good stuff! Naturally, I'm speaking collectively (from starters to backups all the way down to the PS) compared to the rest of the NFL.

I'd say re: the OL, we have 10 guys under contract with 1 FA who's a one-trick pony (albeit, he's great at pulling). All of them, say for one, Brandon Thomas, has played extensively in our system as well. I still believe this OL has way more talent than we realize and feel there just needs to be some minor personnel changes, switches and better coaching and scheme. I'm sure we'll still nab another OL in FA and in the draft. It's what we do. It was also obvious, guys weren't playing with any sense of urgency or playing up to their capabilities. None of the veterans. Scheme-wise, our biggest weakness is pass protection, so the coaches called for the most 20+ pass plays in the NFL despite passing way less than teams like the Pats. I'd say the best "starting" OL is probably Dallas. But we're probably deeper and should be able to compete right up there with a few changes IMHO.

For sure about the WR position. That said, even w/o Crabtree, we still have three proven apx. 1,000 yard receivers in Boldin, Johnson and VD. We had up to five with Crabtree and Lloyd. Some teams don't have one. Were they used correctly? Of course not. Like the OL, the WR weakness was top end speed that backed CB's deep off the LOS. That said, the strengths of the WR's were never go-routes anyway. They were proven in short area quickness, crossing patterns, horizontal attacks, finding holes in the zones, tough catches in traffic, in the seams, YAC, etc. I also think Patton and Ellington are way faster than some think but were never used, obviously. Boldin was rarely used in the slot to keep him clean esp. in the RZ and for jump balls (killed us in the Superbowl). I think, like the OL, there is way more talent than people realize. I think the best "starters" are either in Chicago or Dallas. We'll have to see what we do in FA or the draft to see if we can compete here or if collectively, this groups can produce similar results.

Great point about the QB position. Obviously, when CK has time, like any QB, he's going to tear you up esp. as a dual threat. I still love Johnson's game though and think his style matches up well with CK and what we try to accomplish. Gabbert? He may be a better fit now if we go to a more pure WCO. But you're right, there are better starting and backup combinations in the game there.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about scheme (philosophy). A good OC will get guys wide open and running free (you see this all the time on other teams), take advantage of defensive weaknesses, tendencies, etc.

I still think we have one of the most talented and deepest rosters collectively and would love to see a side-by-side match-up with any team in the NFL. Like when Harbaugh first arrived, I still have that same feeling today...that a few personnel moves need to be made, others utilized, some utilized better/properly, etc. and you'll see a WORLD of difference.

Teaching/coaching and esp. scheme is going to make a big difference in 2015...that's my hope anyway!

Good responses NC! I agree with you regarding general depth--backups are very good overall (if they keep a QB). There are concerns about some of the starters, however. If Logan has a great deal of input I have confidence that he will get more offense out of these players, just don't know if some of the parts need to be replaced.

Examples:

• OL is strong and big but are they quick enough and football-smart enough to become really good zone blockers? Smart tends to be a negative word when in question, but I mean...do they understand how to play the position? Is their vision good enough? Can they anticipate what the defense is going to do? Part of this is coaching. Did the coaches prepare the OL for what the D will do? So I expect an improvement here. I agree with one of your previous posts as well and would like to try Boone at RT or LT depending on Staley's health. Staley/Thomas/Kilgore/Davis/Boone with M Martin backing up would be a great line.
• WR is a strong position but not very diversified. I hope they get a speedster and a tall guy out of this draft...two things they don't currently have. But just as I'm warming up to the idea of taking Devin Smith in the first round (as OTC's mock has him) he's dropped to the third round in some mocks! If Baalke takes a WR in the first round he needs a sure thing. If Kevin White is gone then perhaps they go elsewhere in the first round.
• QB--was Johnson on the team because he was Harbaugh's guy? Or is he NFL level? I like him as well...so hope they keep him and see if he can develop into a steady backup. Was confused by the Gabbert pickup and thought they were trying to resurrect him so they could use him in a trade...but signed for one year? Doesn't compute.

I might actually have to go visit training camp this year...very up in the air about all of this but still excited for the changes.

Terrific points. You brought up some excellent ones that I ponder as well.

• Football IQ - how many times have we seen one or two OL just stand there as a DL runs right past them for pressure...over and over and over again? Is this b/c they are dumb, scheme, lacking of coaching, lacking in football IQ, motivation, etc.? I get the scheme didn't fool anyone after 2+ years (i.e. follow the move-man and you'll find the ball) but what does that have to do with pass protection? Obviously, you nailed me down...as to the type of personnel combinations I'd like to try out if we decide to go to a more ZBS. But football IQ is a huge thing if you run this scheme.
• You nailed it here with the two things I'd like...prototypical WCO size (big-bodied/box-out), large catching radius, ability to high-point the ball, RAC mentality, out-muscle defenders, etc. and also someone who is just as quick off the LOS as he is fast (excellent top-end speed) to back DB's way off the LOS. Both need to be supreme at route running and football IQ esp. if we go more traditional WCO! They need to be EXACT. JR was never the fastest but he won all his route battles within 2-3 steps off the LOS. I "feel" like we have a bunch of guys who would excel at that...starting with Johnson, Ellington and Patton. Boldin in the slot now where he'd be clean and free off the LOS, almost like another TE would be great esp. more in the RZ. Even if we get ONE of the two aforementioned ideal WR's, the combinations it would allow us to run would be terrific. Like Logan said, he's doesn't want one go-to WR...he wants everyone involved. I can't wait to see Patton on the field now and esp. Ellington running out of the backfield. Let's not forget about what excellent receivers we have out of the backfield in Hyde and Hunter! That's like adding two/three new WR's to our passing game!
• Good one re: the QB too as Gabbert may be more ideal if we go back to a more traditional WCO (more pure pocket passer with some solid mobility) or Johnson who's more vertical, experienced and adds a similar game plan to CK (if we stay with our current structure). Obviously, we'll get a developmental guy and THAT pick should be very telling as to which direction we'll head in offensively under Geep/Logan/Foerster.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
NC that is as good a summary as I have seen and where we are and is spot on.

OL...talented but needs coaching, plus a player or two in FA or draft both (hi)
WRs...grossly misused or underused, and we still have 3 1000 yd guys, need one top flite WR in draft or FA and one farther down the list.
Coaching....res ipsa loquitur...the thing speaks for itself. We have a boatload of talent out there, top 3 in league IMO, maybe even better. Coaching was pure ca ca last yr esp as yr wore on. Put on good HC and position coaches with all that talent and no telling how good we can be. IMO we have plenty of talent for a SB run, but coaching will make it or break it.
RBs---Hyde, maybe frank, could use another in draft
CBs., DBs....Well, it isn't that you have to have 3 all pro CBs to win the SB. You have to have the scheme to beat them and bellichek did with short stuff in the middle. Man, that isn't that hard and we may have all the talent we need. What we lacked was coaching. Fangio was good, but not on pass D. Again, depends on coaching.
DL...need a draft pick (hi) and maybe a FA. Depends on who stays or not.
LBs we have more than enough goodies here. Health is question.
TEs....desperately in need of coaching here. And we could add one in PS.
QB....again, kap was uncoached last yr or badly coached. What if he can be coached to be 20% better? It could happen, but he needs a mentor, something he hasn't had except when alex was here. OC or QB coach, or HC. Doesn't matter, but he needs that sideline chat between possessions. Backup...Blaine is a project and not a backup. We need a backup and if one comes available, we should get him. NO more , betting on kap being healthy all season. that was stoopid.

Return guy....if a good one, take him in PS.

Looking at that , it is obvious that we aren't that far off. Bottom line is we need way better coaching than last 4 yrs, esp last 2. We get our coaching staff going on all the positions, and if those coaches are as good as some of us think, look out.

Well done on your own account!

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
The ravens were blitzing from play #1 in the Super Bowl. After running many plays on offense, we get to inside the 10 and call, as Alex Smith pointed out, passing plays with no "pressure beaters". We didn't lose to the ravens, we were the superior team that beat ourselves with inferior coaching

This!