The 49ers 2015 Coaching Staff Thread

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
...I'm sure there's at least 2-4 players who don''t like it

Sure, we forget these players have favorites too. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the players themselves were involved in the hiring process along the way. Obviously VD was putting out a vote for Chud b/c he's no dummy...lots of TE usage = more $ for him possibly. Even the coaches had favorites. Fangio wanted Shanahan b/c that wouldn't look like a slight on his part for not getting the HC job.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
The ravens were blitzing from play #1 in the Super Bowl. After running many plays on offense, we get to inside the 10 and call, as Alex Smith pointed out, passing plays with no "pressure beaters". We didn't lose to the ravens, we were the superior team that beat ourselves with inferior coaching

This!

lots of examples of this
special ed teams
our alleged awesome DC having two all pro linebackers set around playing checkers in pass coverage ,knowing we had three hurt guys, while Joe ate us alive
and of course the crowning achievement on second and goal from the five when even little james got two yards on first down vs a d designed to stop the run.. oh but its ok to lose the super bowl cuz its better than what we did for ten years prior to that

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Its the nature of the beast. There are 32 teams in this league and sometimes you go up against better players and coaches and just get flat out beat. That shouldn't negate the fact that the moment JH came aboard we went from a perennial bottom feeder to a perennial top 3 team and stayed that way for three straight years.

There aren't any perfect coaches, not by a mile. And no team is going to win a championship every year.

And when you say "when things were bad, they were horrid," what do you mean? We didn't get blown out in the super bowl or in any meaningful games. Maybe the games were horrid for us fans, but to say we came 7 yards from a title is horrid from a performance standpoint, is just not accurate. Objectively, we weren't as bad as you say we were.

This is a non linear argument- because JH had screw ups those screw ups cost SB and big games, therefore it's ok because no coach is perfect and (implied) JH did the best possible with the teams he had because no team wins a championship every year.

No coach is perfect
no one team wins the championship every year

clock mismanagement did cost big games
half time adjustments were missig
hired as an offensive guru, the offense never became statistically significantly better, the defense did however

this is advice for any job out there – if you're not doing the one thing you were principally hired to do chances are you're going to be fired very soon.

He was principally hired to win. And he did so. I'm not the type to fire someone who has revived my company, taken us to the brink of the promise land three straight years, generated a ton of money, just because of a some gaffs. Nobody is perfect and if that was a requirement for being hired we would all be unemployed. As if we all don't make mistakes at work despite being good employees.

Sure, people want to point out to a things here and there that piss them off but forget about the laundry list of positives that JH brought to the team. Things like owning Green Bay, beating Bellichek in December at NE, beating the saints, taking down Jim Shwartz, beating the dream team of Philly, comeback win against ATL in the NFCC, top 5 running attack, top team as far as protecting the ball, top team as far causing turnovers, and a many more positives.

Yeah I know. "But we have a stacked roster and Fangio's D did it all!"

When we had success it was all fangio and the players and the times we falter its on JH...

Well, now we are without either so we are about to find out what made this team click for the last 3/4 years.

Originally posted by NCommand:

• Football IQ - how many times have we seen one or two OL just stand there as a DL runs right past them for pressure...over and over and over again? Is this b/c they are dumb, scheme, lacking of coaching, lacking in football IQ, motivation, etc.? I get the scheme didn't fool anyone after 2+ years (i.e. follow the move-man and you'll find the ball) but what does that have to do with pass protection? Obviously, you nailed me down...as to the type of personnel combinations I'd like to try out if we decide to go to a more ZBS. But football IQ is a huge thing if you run this scheme.

A lot of people the ZBS with improving pass protection, because the OL in a ZBS tend to be lighter and more agile. I think it goes beyond that. In the ZBS, OL are constantly protecting an area and passing off defenders to he line-mate they are zoning with. They have to adjust on the fly to shifting fronts, unexpected pressures, and the defense's response to our backfield action. It's a lot to process, but they do it habitually on every run play. I believe that practice prepares them to pass protect as a unit, rather than as a series of individual players who are responsible for individual matchups. Most of our most egregious errors in pass protection were due to poor responses to line stunts and blitzing. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the tv when Iupati opened a huge gap in the pocket by casing his stunting DL around the front of our line.

Whoops, got off track there. The point is, if we are running zone frequently, our OL is adjusting to stunts in pairs all the time, so they are adjusting their mindset to collaborative protection, which I believe translates to pass pro, resulting in less run-throughs and quick pressure.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
He was principally hired to win. And he did so. I'm not the type to fire someone who has revived my company, taken us to the brink of the promise land three straight years, generated a ton of money, just because of a some gaffs. Nobody is perfect and if that was a requirement for being hired we would all be unemployed. As if we all don't make mistakes at work despite being good employees.

Sure, people want to point out to a things here and there that piss them off but forget about the laundry list of positives that JH brought to the team. Things like owning Green Bay, beating Bellichek in December at NE, beating the saints, taking down Jim Shwartz, beating the dream team of Philly, comeback win against ATL in the NFCC, top 5 running attack, top team as far as protecting the ball, top team as far causing turnovers, and a many more positives.

Yeah I know. "But we have a stacked roster and Fangio's D did it all!"

When we had success it was all fangio and the players and the times we falter its on JH...

Well, now we are without either so we are about to find out what made this team click for the last 3/4 years.

I think that's an inaccurate over-simplification.

I think we were all critical of our postseason defense.

I think we gave credit to Harbaugh for changing the culture and increasing expectations.

I think we credited Harbaugh for winning games with Alex after Alex had some tough times here.

I think it is fair to be disappointed that an offensive-minded HC lead an offense that was getting worse.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
He was principally hired to win. And he did so. I'm not the type to fire someone who has revived my company, taken us to the brink of the promise land three straight years, generated a ton of money, just because of a some gaffs. Nobody is perfect and if that was a requirement for being hired we would all be unemployed. As if we all don't make mistakes at work despite being good employees.

Harbaugh principally was hired to win. I will accept that premise. And, there is no doubt that he did win.

I am not entirely sure that Harbaugh wanted to continue coaching the 49ers, but for the sake of the discussion let's assume that he wanted to stay; that he was in fact fired.

Then why in the hell was he fired? There are legitimate reasons for firing a winning head coach. We do not know why Harbaugh was fired and without knowing what actually happened, we should not just assume the firing was an error.

It should be noted a lot of guys are not necessarily going to be back next year. So if you ask someone like Crabtree what his thoughts on the hire it may be negative but does it matter? Not to single him out he's just the highest profile free agent that we have. So who really cares if a few guys are discontent that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
He was principally hired to win. And he did so. I'm not the type to fire someone who has revived my company, taken us to the brink of the promise land three straight years, generated a ton of money, just because of a some gaffs. Nobody is perfect and if that was a requirement for being hired we would all be unemployed. As if we all don't make mistakes at work despite being good employees.

They aren't just some gaffs.
Let's put it this way,
Harbaugh was a salesman that starting bringing clients to your company. He started bringing bigger names to your company and then he had a chance to land the biggest name in your profession but didn't seal the deal. The next year he brought in the names he had been bringing in and then again got close to landing a big name and didn't seal the deal. you suggested to him maybe you should change your presentation up a little bit and he said absolutely not. now this year he's barely bringing in new clients because at this point everyone has heard his stuff before. and then had no chance to land that big fish that is the companies goal. Not only that on one of the annual retreats against your main competing firm from seattle he totally blows the presentation in front of the entire tight knit community to the point you have to apologize for the mess that was his presentation.

Do you keep him around for more of the exact same sales tactics the following year, knowing he is totally unwilling to take any suggestions on how to pitch things to clients? Not major changes it's just that he has 2 people helping him put together his presentation, 1 is rock solid and the other is in over his head. the two of them don't make a good team but he's unwilling to potentially get rid of him and try a tweak to hopefully get over the hump and land the whale of a client that he's been trying to land over the pat 4 years. You just ride it out and hope that something that is obviously broken is going to work because in the past it worked but is spiraling down rapidly to the detriment of your entire company?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
A lot of people the ZBS with improving pass protection, because the OL in a ZBS tend to be lighter and more agile. I think it goes beyond that. In the ZBS, OL are constantly protecting an area and passing off defenders to he line-mate they are zoning with. They have to adjust on the fly to shifting fronts, unexpected pressures, and the defense's response to our backfield action. It's a lot to process, but they do it habitually on every run play. I believe that practice prepares them to pass protect as a unit, rather than as a series of individual players who are responsible for individual matchups. Most of our most egregious errors in pass protection were due to poor responses to line stunts and blitzing. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the tv when Iupati opened a huge gap in the pocket by casing his stunting DL around the front of our line.

Whoops, got off track there. The point is, if we are running zone frequently, our OL is adjusting to stunts in pairs all the time, so they are adjusting their mindset to collaborative protection, which I believe translates to pass pro, resulting in less run-throughs and quick pressure.

This was part of my question about football intelligence...when you see Boone stand at the RG position looking right while a LBer runs by his left shoulder...why did he not keep his head on a swivel?

Zone won't necessarily eliminate this, but it may help keep guys focused. It requires more practice and a closer group dynamic than man and I've read that it needs to be used extensively in order to stay in sync...not something you can do part time.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
It should be noted a lot of guys are not necessarily going to be back next year. So if you ask someone like Crabtree what his thoughts on the hire it may be negative but does it matter? Not to single him out he's just the highest profile free agent that we have. So who really cares if a few guys are discontent that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I would bet that there isn't one team in the league where you could honestly say 100% of the players are happy with the coaches. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
It should be noted a lot of guys are not necessarily going to be back next year. So if you ask someone like Crabtree what his thoughts on the hire it may be negative but does it matter? Not to single him out he's just the highest profile free agent that we have. So who really cares if a few guys are discontent that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I would bet that there isn't one team in the league where you could honestly say 100% of the players are happy with the coaches. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

Good points...and fear of the unknown is always there. This may be a reason for keeping Chryst and Mangini that goes beyond the "couldn't find anyone else willing" theory.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
A lot of people the ZBS with improving pass protection, because the OL in a ZBS tend to be lighter and more agile. I think it goes beyond that. In the ZBS, OL are constantly protecting an area and passing off defenders to he line-mate they are zoning with. They have to adjust on the fly to shifting fronts, unexpected pressures, and the defense's response to our backfield action. It's a lot to process, but they do it habitually on every run play. I believe that practice prepares them to pass protect as a unit, rather than as a series of individual players who are responsible for individual matchups. Most of our most egregious errors in pass protection were due to poor responses to line stunts and blitzing. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the tv when Iupati opened a huge gap in the pocket by casing his stunting DL around the front of our line.

Whoops, got off track there. The point is, if we are running zone frequently, our OL is adjusting to stunts in pairs all the time, so they are adjusting their mindset to collaborative protection, which I believe translates to pass pro, resulting in less run-throughs and quick pressure.

This was part of my question about football intelligence...when you see Boone stand at the RG position looking right while a LBer runs by his left shoulder...why did he not keep his head on a swivel?

Zone won't necessarily eliminate this, but it may help keep guys focused. It requires more practice and a closer group dynamic than man and I've read that it needs to be used extensively in order to stay in sync...not something you can do part time.

I would agree with this. The 49ers tend to run 2-6 zone plays per game, and they weren't great at it, because it requires a different mindset than the gap/power scheme they usually run. It's not easy for a RB to switch between schemes, either, as the reads are a lot different.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
A lot of people the ZBS with improving pass protection, because the OL in a ZBS tend to be lighter and more agile. I think it goes beyond that. In the ZBS, OL are constantly protecting an area and passing off defenders to he line-mate they are zoning with. They have to adjust on the fly to shifting fronts, unexpected pressures, and the defense's response to our backfield action. It's a lot to process, but they do it habitually on every run play. I believe that practice prepares them to pass protect as a unit, rather than as a series of individual players who are responsible for individual matchups. Most of our most egregious errors in pass protection were due to poor responses to line stunts and blitzing. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the tv when Iupati opened a huge gap in the pocket by casing his stunting DL around the front of our line.

Whoops, got off track there. The point is, if we are running zone frequently, our OL is adjusting to stunts in pairs all the time, so they are adjusting their mindset to collaborative protection, which I believe translates to pass pro, resulting in less run-throughs and quick pressure.

This was part of my question about football intelligence...when you see Boone stand at the RG position looking right while a LBer runs by his left shoulder...why did he not keep his head on a swivel?

Zone won't necessarily eliminate this, but it may help keep guys focused. It requires more practice and a closer group dynamic than man and I've read that it needs to be used extensively in order to stay in sync...not something you can do part time.

I would agree with this. The 49ers tend to run 2-6 zone plays per game, and they weren't great at it, because it requires a different mindset than the gap/power scheme they usually run. It's not easy for a RB to switch between schemes, either, as the reads are a lot different.

Good point WRATH. I agree that a zone blocking run scheme would indirectly help with pass blocking, mainly blitz pickup, as it trains the Oline to adjust on the fly. On top of that, if the 49ers start to draft Olinemen that are slated to excel in a ZBS, then those same physical traits such as agile feet will help with pass pro. It appears as though Baalke has drafted as such with MMartin and BThomas. Hyde came from a ZBS in college. Chris Foerster excels at ZBS. All the signs are there.

Originally posted by thl408:
Good point WRATH. I agree that a zone blocking run scheme would indirectly help with pass blocking, mainly blitz pickup, as it trains the Oline to adjust on the fly. On top of that, if the 49ers start to draft Olinemen that are slated to excel in a ZBS, then those same physical traits such as agile feet will help with pass pro. It appears as though Baalke has drafted as such with MMartin and BThomas. Hyde came from a ZBS in college. Chris Foerster excels at ZBS. All the signs are there.

So we didn't get Chud or Kubiak...

It seems we're still going to run their plays, at least in the running game

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
A lot of people the ZBS with improving pass protection, because the OL in a ZBS tend to be lighter and more agile. I think it goes beyond that. In the ZBS, OL are constantly protecting an area and passing off defenders to he line-mate they are zoning with. They have to adjust on the fly to shifting fronts, unexpected pressures, and the defense's response to our backfield action. It's a lot to process, but they do it habitually on every run play. I believe that practice prepares them to pass protect as a unit, rather than as a series of individual players who are responsible for individual matchups. Most of our most egregious errors in pass protection were due to poor responses to line stunts and blitzing. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at the tv when Iupati opened a huge gap in the pocket by casing his stunting DL around the front of our line.

Whoops, got off track there. The point is, if we are running zone frequently, our OL is adjusting to stunts in pairs all the time, so they are adjusting their mindset to collaborative protection, which I believe translates to pass pro, resulting in less run-throughs and quick pressure.

This was part of my question about football intelligence...when you see Boone stand at the RG position looking right while a LBer runs by his left shoulder...why did he not keep his head on a swivel?

Zone won't necessarily eliminate this, but it may help keep guys focused. It requires more practice and a closer group dynamic than man and I've read that it needs to be used extensively in order to stay in sync...not something you can do part time.

I would agree with this. The 49ers tend to run 2-6 zone plays per game, and they weren't great at it, because it requires a different mindset than the gap/power scheme they usually run. It's not easy for a RB to switch between schemes, either, as the reads are a lot different.

Good point WRATH. I agree that a zone blocking run scheme would indirectly help with pass blocking, mainly blitz pickup, as it trains the Oline to adjust on the fly. On top of that, if the 49ers start to draft Olinemen that are slated to excel in a ZBS, then those same physical traits such as agile feet will help with pass pro. It appears as though Baalke has drafted as such with MMartin and BThomas. Hyde came from a ZBS in college. Chris Foerster excels at ZBS. All the signs are there.

exactly. gore and hunter both could run out of either imo it just helps the line out tremendously imo.