Offseason All22 Film Study

Originally posted by Heroism:

First of all, stop pigeonholding players to a side. Quinton Dial and Jimmie ward already said the entire line and secondary is learning to play every side.

2nd, tank is not an elephant LMAO.

3rd, stop calling tartt a robber. Anyone can be a robber. Since o'neil seems to love cover 1, the mike(bow) is usually the "rat in the hole" or what you call a robber.

First of all, who are you talking to? Second, if me, with the switch from 3 and 4 man DL fronts, Carradine will be edge rushing in a similar fashion (not sure what JoN calls it). Third, there was a nice discussion on the Robber of that formation yesterday and the amount he'll probably play in that set. And, finally, quit whining and derailing a great thread.

I'm not whining, i am correcting your egregious posts since theyre misleading and could misinform other posters on here.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I'm not whining, i am correcting your egregious posts since theyre misleading and could misinform other posters on here.

LOL. Yes, I'm sure everyone is super confused and think these players are not allowed to move from their buckets in any fashion.

Moving on...

Robber is an assignment, not a position. A defender playing robber is playing an underneath zone (Flat, Curl, or Hook), usually while everyone around him is playing man coverage. A robber can be a LB, safety, even a DL. Like mentioned above, 'rat in the hole' is a term used, although it doesn't sound as cool as robber, and is exactly the same thing.

Here is TJE playing a robber assignment.


TJE playing an underneath zone while everyone around him is playing man coverage.


INT

Originally posted by thl408:

Robber is an assignment, not a position. A defender playing robber is playing an underneath zone (Flat, Curl, or Hook), usually while everyone around him is playing man coverage. A robber can be a LB, safety, even a DL. Like mentioned above, 'rat in the hole' is a term used, although it doesn't sound as cool as robber, and is exactly the same thing.

Hey thl, given how often we run in nickel/dime, like Ward, 67% of the snaps, what would be your guesstimate for how much we'll see Tartt on the field in various assignments like the robber?

Fantastic Thl. Fantastic. Even I get it.. Unhhh....I wasn't really keen on the CB picks at #3, 4 and 5(?), but looking at these breakdowns, not too hard to see why we got them. Damn, I sure hope they are as good as hoped....and are like sticky glue. With the cover one blitz, I don't see a wide open middle of the field as we saw all last yr here. Man that got boring/frustrating watching one receiver after another right down the gut and nobody there.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Robber is an assignment, not a position. A defender playing robber is playing an underneath zone (Flat, Curl, or Hook), usually while everyone around him is playing man coverage. A robber can be a LB, safety, even a DL. Like mentioned above, 'rat in the hole' is a term used, although it doesn't sound as cool as robber, and is exactly the same thing.

Hey thl, given how often we run in nickel/dime, like Ward, 67% of the snaps, what would be your guesstimate for how much we'll see Tartt on the field in various assignments like the robber?

I know that Tartt came in to play LB on passing downs in the NYG game and proceeded to get burned by Vareen trying to man cover him. Tartt was drafted by Baalke/Mangini. I have no idea how JoN views him so who knows how much Tartt is used in nickel/dime. I would think a big factor is how much does Hodges/Wilhoite (whoever is the other ILB not named Bow) suck at coverage. If they are bad, then that increases Tartt's chances at stealing snaps away from what would normally be a 4-2-5 package. If, it turns out Hodges/Wilhoite is good in coverage, then they might go with a conventional nickel package (4-2-5) to combat 3 WR sets and Tartt would need to fit in somewhere else.

The staff was trying Ward at outside CB to see what the guy can do. I am assuming they are auditioning Tartt for all types of roles. I hope they give him an ILB role on passing downs. He got burned by Vareen but that was a mismatch. Tartt should be matching up against TEs, not scatbacks. If Tartt can grow as a deep safety then great, but I want those positions eventually played by Reid/Ward.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Fantastic Thl. Fantastic. Even I get it.. Unhhh....I wasn't really keen on the CB picks at #3, 4 and 5(?), but looking at these breakdowns, not too hard to see why we got them. Damn, I sure hope they are as good as hoped....and are like sticky glue. With the cover one blitz, I don't see a wide open middle of the field as we saw all last yr here. Man that got boring/frustrating watching one receiver after another right down the gut and nobody there.

Yes those CBs are going to be a focal point of the defense as they will be relied upon to consistently win 1v1. The 49ers went after Sean Smith, Josh Norman, then the back to back mid rounders. In this scheme, the CBs are now more important than in Fangio's scheme where I'd say the safeties were more important, when talking about the defensive backs.

Originally posted by thl408:

I know that Tartt came in to play LB on passing downs in the NYG game and proceeded to get burned by Vareen trying to man cover him. Tartt was drafted by Baalke/Mangini. I have no idea how JoN views him so who knows how much Tartt is used in nickel/dime. I would think a big factor is how much does Hodges/Wilhoite (whoever is the other ILB not named Bow) suck at coverage. If they are bad, then that increases Tartt's chances at stealing snaps away from what would normally be a 4-2-5 package. If, it turns out Hodges/Wilhoite is good in coverage, then they might go with a conventional nickel package (4-2-5) to combat 3 WR sets and Tartt would need to fit in somewhere else.

The staff was trying Ward at outside CB to see what the guy can do. I am assuming they are auditioning Tartt for all types of roles. I hope they give him an ILB role on passing downs. He got burned by Vareen but that was a mismatch. Tartt should be matching up against TEs, not scatbacks. If Tartt can grow as a deep safety then great, but I want those positions eventually played by Reid/Ward.

Thanks man. Yeah, I remember that. Bad matchup for him indeed.

I like your points about how much he'll play will/may depend on how well the ILB's fair in coverage (and some will be in shallow pattern matching). I too feel like having him shallow and in and around the line of scrimmage gives Jim a tool he can use in coverage, middle enforcer and blitzing and it may help him grow in learning to shed tackles too and filing through traffic.

At the same time, his versatility can be maximized in still learning the SS role too if Reid moves on and for packages that move Ward down to the slot or even outside to create additional confusion/disguise.

I'm really excited to see both Reid and Ward back there at S. I have a feeling Ward has a bit more range than Reid but we'll see.

Most of the 3rd downs where ARI dropped back to pass. A lot of this is more of the same with regards to showing pressure at the LoS and man coverage from a Cover1 shell. Don't take these two games and think this is all JoN does with his coverages. I plan to show the 49ers vs CLE where I saw quite a number of Quarters looks. I list the outcome of the play, but that's not what is important. The coverage and the scheme is what I want to emphasize, while keeping in mind that execution of the play will be different with different players.



Cover 1 robber


Completed

I think this is Cover1 Robber
Blue will come up to rob the weakside Curl zone.


Red was given a push and it created separation for a catch.
What blue and orange do is odd and it showed up again later in the game. Blue robs the Curl zone while orange plays with inside trail position. Many CBs do this - play a WR that lined up outside the numbers with inside trail position, using the sideline as a help defender. What's odd if that blue and orange are basically defending the same side of the WR. They are both to the inside of the WR and aren't bracketing the WR. Bracketing is done by being on opposite sides of a WR, not on the same side.


Completed over the middle

Notice no defender lined up across from #3 (Fitz). Seems susceptible to a quick throw.


Two of the LBs on the LoS drop to rob. This is proper bracketing of a WR (the #3) - underneath and over the top.


Completed to the #1, but notice how #3 seemed open presnap, only to be bracketed post snap. This is the defense setting a trap. Makes sense to bracket Fitz on 3rd down.

Very similar to the play above. 7 in the box, on LoS showing blitz.


Rush 3, drop 8.


The quick slant is thrown and it plays right into the hands of the defense. Show pressure, force the quick hot read. Drop into coverage and smother the play.


Trying to understand where an offense likes to attack and what the hot reads are allows the DC to strategically place the robber(s) in the area of the field where he can make the most impact. When it's done right, this kind of play happens.

One way to help beat man coverage is to use bunched formations where CBs are forced to back off of the LoS or risk bumping into on another as WRs criss cross paths. I originally stated that the CBs did not pattern match, but that was incorrect. Here is an example of the CLE CBs pattern matching to combat a bunch formation. I won't go into what pattern matching is. Refer to this post in the Coverages& Concepts thread for that. And examples of pattern matching here.

This is a 'Box' call that uses a 4v3 situation for 4 defenders to cover 3 bunched WRs. The 4 defenders involved in the pattern matching are highlighted, WRs are numbered.


The defenders wait for the bunch to disperse. The distribution of the routes will determine which defender covers which WR. Orange knows he has help behind him, towards the outside and will allow the first WR he sees (#3) to run by, picking up the second WR to come his way. Red will pick up the first vertical that comes his way.
Green will pick up the first shallow route, if any. Else, he carries any route up the seam and plays an underneath zone. These are my best guesses at the pattern match rules on this play. This concept is very much like Fangio's defense.


Patterns matched. Red doesn't do a good job of staying tight, but he is to match #3.


Notice how the defenders don't get caught up with all the criss crossing by the WRs. The criss crossing of the routes do not result in any picks/rubs occurring.

Here's an overload blitz that disguises who the rushers are. Rushers are red and orange (5 rushers).


The overload blitz is called on the same side as the partial rollout. Red CB, playing over the top is vulnerable to an Out route, which is what happens. Blue, coming from the opposite side of the formation has a lot of ground to cover to get to his man assignment - all for disguise.


Pressure arrives, but pass is completed to the Out route.