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Originally posted by NCommand:
I wonder if we should look back at the Superbowl to see how the Ravens used TS and Boldin.
Originally posted by thl408:I'll definitely look at how Boldin and TS worked off one another. It's a bit painful watching the 2012 film because it's very poor quality and grainy.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I wonder if we should look back at the Superbowl to see how the Ravens used TS and Boldin.
I'll definitely look at how Boldin and TS worked off one another. It's a bit painful watching the 2012 film because it's very poor quality and grainy.
Originally posted by jonnydel:Okay, thanks. Sorry about this is being off topic, but do you think Ellington - because of his particular blend of abilities - is sort of "stuck" as an "X" receiver?
Originally posted by 49erphan:
Do you think Ellington may be a good target on intermediate routes that might be opened up by TS running deep routes?
Based off how we used Moss - I would say Boldin more than Ellington. Ellington plays the same position as TS, They're both the "X" type receivers - the ones on the weakside or opposite the TE. The reason you want your speed guy and deep threat guy playing more in the "X" role is because that's the guy who will get single coverage more than anyone else, so he's the one you want to isolate. If your "X" can defeat single coverage all day(like Torrey can most of the time, or Rice did, or Moss, megatron) than it forces the other team to go to a cover 2-man more often. This is what all the guys who talk about having a receiver that can, "make a team go cover-2" mean. They're not meaning cover 2 zone, but cover 2 man. When a receiver can win his isolation almost every time because he can threaten ANY route(not just deep coverage, more often, they can take underneath routes all day and still have the ability to hit that deep ball if the corner plays underneath) than the other team has to have the man coverage guy play and underneath technique with safety help over the top. This opens up that the defense either has to leave single man coverage with NO help on the strong side - where the other team can run pick/rub plays all day long, or remove a defender from the box to open up the run.
This is why a true "X" receiver is so important to an offense. It's not just having a deep threat, it's having a true "X" receiver. We had 3 "Z" receivers last year - really.
A case in point was the last game that Jerry Rice played for the 49ers. The reason TO got so many balls that day was because TO played the "Z" and Rice the "X". Chicago ran cover 2 man/ cover 2 soft(or sink for you Madden players) all day to double Jerry, which freed up the concept side.
Originally posted by thl408:There are many WRs that are fast and exhibit great 40 times, but how they run when they get shoved at separates the athletes from the bonafide WRs. TS shows an ability to quickly recover from contact and accelerate through.
TS at the bottom of the screen, left side of offensive formation. Fighting through a re-route from the LB, then 1v1 versus Joe Haden.
Notice how quickly he eats up the cushion that Haden is giving.
1st pic: LB gives TS a shove.
2nd pic: TS prepares to use a swim move with his right arm to gain position.
3rd pic: Swim move completed and he is now ahead of Haden.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Niners816:
On post #5, check out the room the slot guy has. Attention has to be paid to Torrey, and that helps every other level. IMO, this will be the single biggest impact he has on our offense.
The uncertainty is how Geep plans to use TS since we know nothing about Geep. BAL almost always had TS and Steve Smith on opposite sides of the field, even in 3WR sets. They chose to force the safety(s) to defend the width of the deep portion of the field. Flacco took shots to whichever side he felt was a better matchup by targeting Torrey or Steve deep down the sidelines. Would the 49ers do that, or use TS and Boldin on the same side of the field where TS clears the deep defenders and Boldin can work directly underneath.
In the 49ers 3WR sets, who is the 3rd WR and will Boldin man the slot or be the other wideout? It will be interesting to see. To the point of how Torrey will open up other routes, here are a couple examples of BAL using a variation of Sail, a concept that the 49ers used many times to bust cover3 shells (3 deep defenders with zone coverage underneath).
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by kujon11:
how is torrey smith and getting catches at the peak of his jump ie jump balls in the end zone?
I did not see him used in that capacity with BAL last season. Nearly all of his TD catches last season, that were not deep bombs, came on slants (or skinny posts). So I don't know how he does in a jump ball scenario in the end zone. He's "only" 6'0, so he doesn't have an imposing body frame. He fights off contact more so with his hands/arms than using his body to shield.
Originally posted by 49erphan:I don't think he's necessarily "stuck" but, your "Z" receiver is going to generally be a little bit stockier, possession type receiver because he'll be making more catches in traffic headed towards defenders. Also, he'll be asked to run block more - that's why TO played the "z" for so long and why Boldin was a great compliment to any "x" he's played with.
Originally posted by jonnydel:Okay, thanks. Sorry about this is being off topic, but do you think Ellington - because of his particular blend of abilities - is sort of "stuck" as an "X" receiver?
Originally posted by 49erphan:
Do you think Ellington may be a good target on intermediate routes that might be opened up by TS running deep routes?
Based off how we used Moss - I would say Boldin more than Ellington. Ellington plays the same position as TS, They're both the "X" type receivers - the ones on the weakside or opposite the TE. The reason you want your speed guy and deep threat guy playing more in the "X" role is because that's the guy who will get single coverage more than anyone else, so he's the one you want to isolate. If your "X" can defeat single coverage all day(like Torrey can most of the time, or Rice did, or Moss, megatron) than it forces the other team to go to a cover 2-man more often. This is what all the guys who talk about having a receiver that can, "make a team go cover-2" mean. They're not meaning cover 2 zone, but cover 2 man. When a receiver can win his isolation almost every time because he can threaten ANY route(not just deep coverage, more often, they can take underneath routes all day and still have the ability to hit that deep ball if the corner plays underneath) than the other team has to have the man coverage guy play and underneath technique with safety help over the top. This opens up that the defense either has to leave single man coverage with NO help on the strong side - where the other team can run pick/rub plays all day long, or remove a defender from the box to open up the run.
This is why a true "X" receiver is so important to an offense. It's not just having a deep threat, it's having a true "X" receiver. We had 3 "Z" receivers last year - really.
A case in point was the last game that Jerry Rice played for the 49ers. The reason TO got so many balls that day was because TO played the "Z" and Rice the "X". Chicago ran cover 2 man/ cover 2 soft(or sink for you Madden players) all day to double Jerry, which freed up the concept side.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I wonder if we should look back at the Superbowl to see how the Ravens used TS and Boldin.
I'll definitely look at how Boldin and TS worked off one another. It's a bit painful watching the 2012 film because it's very poor quality and grainy.
good for you, I still don't have the stomach to watch any film from that game - not sure I ever will....
