Offseason All22 Film Study

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

This is a big issue I have with Gabbert. He's not in trouble here, and if he looks directly past Boldin, he'd see Torrey Smith with great leverage on his man for the comeback. If Gabbert holds for half a second, that's a first down. I like that he gets the ball out quickly, but it's too damn quick at times.

This is an issue Gabbert is going to have to overcome - resetting that internal clock. The way he was abused in Jacksonville and the the OL he played behind off the bench here, it's understandable why he's shaved .5 seconds off his internal clock and is too quick to pull the trigger and is more programmed to take the shorter/safer pass at times. But until this OL is settled and consistent, he's got no reason to do otherwise. That said, even if he doesn't change his approach (positive yards; no negative plays), it still may not be an issue as long as we can establish the run.

That's a good point about resetting his internal clock. Although I don't know if his sped up clock is a result of his days in JAC or that's just the way he is. His starts last season didn't help much about teaching patience in the pocket. I think a good running game could be the quickest, best way to improve the OL's ability to pass protect.

Somewhat related - so far from watching him closely, he short arms a lot of throws and it ends up being underthrown. There are many times he doesn't step into his throw and he shortens the motion of his release. I've watched his INTs and on all the INTs that were a result of a bad throw, he is underthrowing his WR. There are times he could have hit a WR for a huge gain, but he doesn't lead the WR enough. Something I'll keep an eye on.

Interesting. He threw pretty quickly in Mizzou, too, and everyone just attributed that to him having dudes running free in the secondary pretty quickly after the snap. I wonder if that system broke him a bit, in terms of timing, or if that system simply fit him because it allowed him to get the ball out as quickly as he already wanted to.

Kelly is going to make a decision on that pretty quick, lol. We will see, because I am betting we see both QB's over the course of the season.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Interesting. He threw pretty quickly in Mizzou, too, and everyone just attributed that to him having dudes running free in the secondary pretty quickly after the snap. I wonder if that system broke him a bit, in terms of timing, or if that system simply fit him because it allowed him to get the ball out as quickly as he already wanted to.

Now we are getting into the whole, "college spread offenses don't prepare prospects for the NFL" argument, and it's a very real issue for the NFL. The general notion is that these spread QBs need to sit and learn before taking their first NFL snap. 2014 was the first year Gabbert knew he was going to hold a clipboard all season and he did improve between the 2014 preseason and 2015.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
This is a big issue I have with Gabbert. He's not in trouble here, and if he looks directly past Boldin, he'd see Torrey Smith with great leverage on his man for the comeback. If Gabbert holds for half a second, that's a first down. I like that he gets the ball out quickly, but it's too damn quick at times.

This is an issue Gabbert is going to have to overcome - resetting that internal clock. The way he was abused in Jacksonville and the the OL he played behind off the bench here, it's understandable why he's shaved .5 seconds off his internal clock and is too quick to pull the trigger and is more programmed to take the shorter/safer pass at times. But until this OL is settled and consistent, he's got no reason to do otherwise. That said, even if he doesn't change his approach (positive yards; no negative plays), it still may not be an issue as long as we can establish the run.

That's a good point about resetting his internal clock. Although I don't know if his sped up clock is a result of his days in JAC or that's just the way he is. His starts last season didn't help much about teaching patience in the pocket. I think a good running game could be the quickest, best way to improve the OL's ability to pass protect.

Somewhat related - so far from watching him closely, he short arms a lot of throws and it ends up being underthrown. There are many times he doesn't step into his throw and he shortens the motion of his release. I've watched his INTs and on all the INTs that were a result of a bad throw, he is underthrowing his WR. There are times he could have hit a WR for a huge gain, but he doesn't lead the WR enough. Something I'll keep an eye on.

Interesting. He threw pretty quickly in Mizzou, too, and everyone just attributed that to him having dudes running free in the secondary pretty quickly after the snap. I wonder if that system broke him a bit, in terms of timing, or if that system simply fit him because it allowed him to get the ball out as quickly as he already wanted to.

Ironically, Kelly brings that very system/philosophy to SF now doesn't he but on steroids? If so, this system very much might fit Gabbert's skill set and training and 'internal clock.'

Nice additional observations thl. That is certainly something to watch going forward.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
This is a big issue I have with Gabbert. He's not in trouble here, and if he looks directly past Boldin, he'd see Torrey Smith with great leverage on his man for the comeback. If Gabbert holds for half a second, that's a first down. I like that he gets the ball out quickly, but it's too damn quick at times.

This is an issue Gabbert is going to have to overcome - resetting that internal clock. The way he was abused in Jacksonville and the the OL he played behind off the bench here, it's understandable why he's shaved .5 seconds off his internal clock and is too quick to pull the trigger and is more programmed to take the shorter/safer pass at times. But until this OL is settled and consistent, he's got no reason to do otherwise. That said, even if he doesn't change his approach (positive yards; no negative plays), it still may not be an issue as long as we can establish the run.

That's a good point about resetting his internal clock. Although I don't know if his sped up clock is a result of his days in JAC or that's just the way he is. His starts last season didn't help much about teaching patience in the pocket. I think a good running game could be the quickest, best way to improve the OL's ability to pass protect.

Somewhat related - so far from watching him closely, he short arms a lot of throws and it ends up being underthrown. There are many times he doesn't step into his throw and he shortens the motion of his release. I've watched his INTs and on all the INTs that were a result of a bad throw, he is underthrowing his WR. There are times he could have hit a WR for a huge gain, but he doesn't lead the WR enough. Something I'll keep an eye on.

Interesting. He threw pretty quickly in Mizzou, too, and everyone just attributed that to him having dudes running free in the secondary pretty quickly after the snap. I wonder if that system broke him a bit, in terms of timing, or if that system simply fit him because it allowed him to get the ball out as quickly as he already wanted to.

Ironically, Kelly brings that very system/philosophy to SF now doesn't he but on steroids? If so, this system very much might fit Gabbert's skill set and training and 'internal clock.'

Nice additional observations thl. That is certainly something to watch going forward.

Chip runs a pretty typical passing offense. It's just the tempo of it that is unorthodox. As far as concepts, progressions, play design, it's not different than any other NFL offense that I can see. He favors a spread formation, and will throw in the occasional 'wtf formation is that', but the reads that the QB is required to make is nothing like a college spread offense. We'll see the occasional WR screen that doesn't require the QB to make any progression reads, but the bulk of his passing game is made up of conventional concepts seen in all NFL playbooks.

What Gabbert does do that favors Chip's passing game is get rid of the ball quickly. Whether it's quickly and to the correct WR is another story. Chip rarely calls for a 6th protector (RB) so there are 5 routes flying out right after the snap. This puts pressure on the QB to make a decision and the OL to pass block.

Originally posted by thl408:

Chip runs a pretty typical passing offense. It's just the tempo of it that is unorthodox. As far as concepts, progressions, play design, it's not different than any other NFL offense that I can see. He favors a spread formation, and will throw in the occasional 'wtf formation is that', but the reads that the QB is required to make is nothing like a college spread offense. We'll see the occasional WR screen that doesn't require the QB to make any progression reads, but the bulk of his passing game is made up of conventional concepts seen in all NFL playbooks.

What Gabbert does do that favors Chip's passing game is get rid of the ball quickly. Whether it's quickly and to the correct WR is another story. Chip rarely calls for a 6th protector (RB) so there are 5 routes flying out right after the snap. This puts pressure on the QB to make a decision and the OL to pass block.

I totally agree with this. Chips passing game is a pro style. His biggest discrepancy from the other pro attacks is his reliance on 90-95% gun looks. Because of this he has a running game that is pretty much fully sustained out of the gun.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Chip runs a pretty typical passing offense. It's just the tempo of it that is unorthodox. As far as concepts, progressions, play design, it's not different than any other NFL offense that I can see. He favors a spread formation, and will throw in the occasional 'wtf formation is that', but the reads that the QB is required to make is nothing like a college spread offense. We'll see the occasional WR screen that doesn't require the QB to make any progression reads, but the bulk of his passing game is made up of conventional concepts seen in all NFL playbooks.

What Gabbert does do that favors Chip's passing game is get rid of the ball quickly. Whether it's quickly and to the correct WR is another story. Chip rarely calls for a 6th protector (RB) so there are 5 routes flying out right after the snap. This puts pressure on the QB to make a decision and the OL to pass block.

I totally agree with this. Chips passing game is a pro style. His biggest discrepancy from the other pro attacks is his reliance on 90-95% gun looks. Because of this he has a running game that is pretty much fully sustained out of the gun.

Thanks fellas!

Watching these clips shows how fast the Cards safeties are

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:


I definitely think he could have gotten the ball to Vance over the MLB had he waited. The DB on Patton was coming from the bottom hash makers. He was a good 4 yards away when Patton dropped the ball. I think Patton could have caught the ball, turn the corner on the defender and tries for the 1st down marker. Don't think he would make it, but I don't think he would have gotten blown up like he did either.

Agree about McDonald. Especially being that he should've known the route McDonald is running and could've thrown the ball a little early to where McDonald was going to be before he even made his cut. I think Patton was gonna get rocked even if he did catch it. That defender closed fast.

One thing I noted when I broke this play down during the season is the press-coverage on McD. It disrupts the timing of this concept. The drive concept is a strict 5 step drop timing. So, every time they practice this play it's, "5 steps and throw". McD ends up taking a circuitous route to defeat his press coverage and never really does. The safety is able to disrupt the timing of his route by about .5 seconds. That's enough for Gabbert to red light the route as it's out of time, IMO. I see it as a failure for McD to effectively defeat the press-man. He's got about 60 LBS on that guy and should never get hung up like that on the LOS. You don't see that happen to Jason Witten.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
One thing I noted when I broke this play down during the season is the press-coverage on McD. It disrupts the timing of this concept. The drive concept is a strict 5 step drop timing. So, every time they practice this play it's, "5 steps and throw". McD ends up taking a circuitous route to defeat his press coverage and never really does. The safety is able to disrupt the timing of his route by about .5 seconds. That's enough for Gabbert to red light the route as it's out of time, IMO. I see it as a failure for McD to effectively defeat the press-man. He's got about 60 LBS on that guy and should never get hung up like that on the LOS. You don't see that happen to Jason Witten.

Yea good points

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:
ARI #6

vs Cover1 Robber


It looks like a 5 man rush (blitz), but the LB manned up on Draughn only threatens to blitz and will hold up short of committing to the blitz to see if Draughn runs a route. Blue robber takes away Vance's Dig route. Gabbert looks towards Boldin on the pivot route. With the CB playing loose over the top on Boldin, the CB is able to attack downhill and make the tackle.


+7. Punt.


- Robber takes away Vance (Gabbert's first read). Patton's route is short of the marker. Torrey gets some separation but that's a long throw to the far sideline. CB positioning allows him to make a good tackle on Boldin. - Good defense.

This is a big issue I have with Gabbert. He's not in trouble here, and if he looks directly past Boldin, he'd see Torrey Smith with great leverage on his man for the comeback. If Gabbert holds for half a second, that's a first down. I like that he gets the ball out quickly, but it's too damn quick at times.

TBF, that is Patrick Peterson covering T. Smith while having one of his best seasons on a pretty long throw to the sideline. You know what they say, "don't poke the bear". I don't think I would've tried that throw either.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

TBF, that is Patrick Peterson covering T. Smith while having one of his best seasons on a pretty long throw to the sideline. You know what they say, "don't poke the bear". I don't think I would've tried that throw either.

That's a big boy throw. I think if I have a big bodied WR (Calvin/Andre Johnson) I their prime I maybe give them a chance, but in this case I don't think I risk it either.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
One thing I noted when I broke this play down during the season is the press-coverage on McD. It disrupts the timing of this concept. The drive concept is a strict 5 step drop timing. So, every time they practice this play it's, "5 steps and throw". McD ends up taking a circuitous route to defeat his press coverage and never really does. The safety is able to disrupt the timing of his route by about .5 seconds. That's enough for Gabbert to red light the route as it's out of time, IMO. I see it as a failure for McD to effectively defeat the press-man. He's got about 60 LBS on that guy and should never get hung up like that on the LOS. You don't see that happen to Jason Witten.

Here's that play. I don't know why Vance seemed like he wanted to win an outside release. He should have just taken inside leverage off the LoS (defender was lined up with outside shade). It was as if he stemmed outside then realized he was running an inside breaking route.

ARI #8
I think this is 4 Verticals concept with Boldin making a sight adjustment - changing his route to a slant when he sees the blitz - to give Gabbert a hot read.
vs Cover1 blitz



Gabbert winding up, Boldin with slight separation.


Gabbert leads Boldin too far with the pass - incomplete.


- Missed read/throw.

ARI #9
vs Cover0; numbered defenders are rushing



After taking the snap, Gabbert looks to the middle of the field and should see that the lone safety ran towards the LoS to cover Vance. At this point, Gabbert probably knows it's Cover0.


Gabbert looks to Torrey 1v1 with PPeterson.


Gabbert doesn't pull the trigger and looks back towards the middle, my guess is at Vance on the Dig because that's the only route attacking the middle of the field.


Same moment as above.


Cover0 always has a free rusher. Sacked.


Tough call. Gabbert looked at Torrey and didn't pull the trigger, not that Torrey had separation. Had Gabbert looked to the right instead of Torrey, maybe he sees an option he would have liked. Don't know what he's coached to do, but facing Cover0 and being able to complete his dropback, I'll be harsh and say he should have gotten the ball out and not taken a sack. - Missed read/throw.

Originally posted by thl408:

Here's that play. I don't know why Vance seemed like he wanted to win an outside release. He should have just taken inside leverage off the LoS (defender was lined up with outside shade). It was as if he stemmed outside then realized he was running an inside breaking route.

Vance ran it like we used to in 1994. In fact here is a play that is eerily similar to this play (of course formation and personnel being totally different)