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Offseason All22 Film Study

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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Looks like MG didn't get much separation except that one play where the ball was overthrown

I admit I was generous with some of the wins for MG. I don't agree with MG's quote, "you can't cover me, & couldn't all game".

Seems like a lot of posturing and trash talk....what's puzzling is that he said there's film...LOL....

He probably thinks he really did win a lot of the match ups and the qb just didn't get him the ball in the right spots. WR's seem to think they are always open.
[ Edited by lamontb on Mar 15, 2017 at 11:53 AM ]
  • thl408
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Sourball:
Nice job THL
Thanks.
So does this mean they're evenly matched highly skilled players or both just ..ehh?
Will Goodwin be able to get separation against NFCW DB's?
Will Robinson be able to lock down the best WRs in the division?
What's your opinion?
I was impressed with Robinson last year but to be honest don't remember the Buffalo game. In fact I've tried to forget all of last year. Even when we won, we lost.
RR is going to be a good one. What I am waiting to see is how he adjusts to being a Cover3 CB. He already is good at press man coverage, but what about when he's using bail technique, hands off the WR, watching the QB, and watching route combinations develop, defending an area and not a WR. Can he thrive in a system like that or is a pure man coverage CB? Just as an example, Nnamdi was considered a lockdown CB until he signed on with PHI and they put him in zone concepts. Then he looked slow and hesitant. Same with Revis as a Buccaneer.

I watched Goodwin against ARI and he had success when lining up against Marcus Cooper, but got owned against Patrick Peterson. I'll show this one play where PP defeated Goodwin on a vertical route and made a crazy one handed INT. PP is a stud though. I haven't watched Goodwin versus SEA.

If RR turns out to be a PP type guy, do you think Saleh would be more willing to stay with a more cover-1 type defense where the backend coverages are more like what JoN ran?? Or, would he run more like Seattle's first couple years with Sherman and Browner where it was zone but with man-coverage techniques?? Or, like Fangio where vertical releases often times turned into man-coverage??

We really aren't sure what Saleh is going to do because he's never been a DC. I'm sure he'll take what he learned in SEA/JAC with Carroll's Cover3 scheme and add his wrinkles. I felt JoN was playing lots of Quarters (2 deep) while sprinkling in Cover1 looks. If Saleh does what SEA does, then Cover1 will be a natural compliment to Cover3.

Saleh will probably adopt a scheme similar to Carroll's because Shanahan is on record saying he likes it (this quote was after Saleh's hiring):
"Playing Seattle over the years and knowing how hard that system is to go against," Shanahan said on San Francisco's KNBR. "It's not necessarily how hard it is, it's how sound it is. They make you work for everything. It's always an eight man front. It's very tough to run the ball against. And they're very sound in their coverages. You can get some completions and things like that, but they make you work all the way down the field.

I feel the focus will be on scheme installation and it will not bend to fit RR's talents. If RR can't do what is asked from a scheme perspective, then that's his problem, not Saleh's. I don't think Saleh is going to call more Cover1 instead of Cover3 just so RR can do what he excels at. But, there's no reason to think, yet, that RR can't be a good Cover3 CB. We just didn't see RR asked to do that last season because that's not what JoN did.
Originally posted by thl408:
The following cut ups are to settle this:


This is a 7 round fight scored by the 10 point must system. Let's get ready to Rumbleee!
Originally posted by thl408:
This judge score it a 65-65....Draw. . How do you have it scored?

A Rematch will take place this training camp.

Awesome. You should send him this link to his Twitter. Welcome to the webzone, MG!
  • LVJay
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Enjoyed that much (RR / MG match up)
Great breakdown, love coming to this thread.
  • thl408
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With talk of Jimmie Ward auditioning at free safety in a single high safety scheme similar to SEA's, I took at look at his lone game at safety(2015 vs Rams week 17, Mangini DC). Specifically, the times he was playing as single high safety. First, a description of what is asked from the free safety in SEA's scheme.
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http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/15829/earl-thomas-job-description-own-two-routes-and-dont-get-greedy
Coach Pete Carroll and the defensive coaches teach him to cover two routes above all others: the seams and the post.
"I think they emphasize that every chance they get because they understand who they've got back there," Thomas said. "They just want to beat home in my brain that you've got to own seams and posts."
Assistant head coach/defense Rocky Seto added: "That's a big emphasis. That's what we ask him to take care of -- seams and posts. And any underneath routes or runs that get out, to make those tackles.
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While there were a number of plays where Ward played single high, I only two noticed two plays where he was the focal point of the route combination as the key defender for the QB. Shown are those two plays.

Pin concept vs Cover3
The "Pin" concept is a two route combination, Post + Dig (In) = Pin, designed to vertically stretch a safety. 49ers show a 2 deep look but will rotate to Cover3.


The Dig route breaks first to set the bait for the safety. If the safety moves up to cover the Dig, it opens up the Post. If the safety gains depth to cover the Post, then it opens up the Dig. The Dig is not the safety's concern. It is up to the middle of the field underneath defenders (Hook zones) to gain depth to cover the Dig.
Here, Ward sees the Dig and comes up to defend it.


Ward takes the bait, opening up the Post. QB just released the ball.


Completed for +53 yards. Can't get greedy. Gotta defend the Seam/Post.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Later in the game. Same concept vs same coverage.


No doubt, Ward sees the Dig route in front of him, but he shows discipline in his assignment and stays back. It's the Hook zone defenders' responsibility (orange) to see the deep dropback (7 step timing), get their head on a swivel, gain depth, and cover up the Dig.


As soon as he recognizes the Post trying to get behind him, he turns and runs. It seems like the angle he takes here is a good one, but because the QB saw Ward gain depth, the QB targets the Dig, Ward peels off, and we can't tell if the angle Ward took was actually good or not.


Pass was dropped. Props to Ward for not getting tricked again. Wish the Rams had ran this concept out of a different look instead of the same personnel, same formation as the previous cut up. Would have been really bad had Ward fallen for it again.


An overaggressive safety gets noticed on film and will become the target of an offense's gameplan. Ward's college film suggests he is aggressive in coming up to make a tackle/play. He will have to find the perfect balance between being aggressive and being smart.
That's some great information thl on the seam and post. Ward is a study freak and it was good to see him pick that up in game. I can't wait to see him solely focused on this one position for an off season esp. given he's most confident and natural there.
Great job thl408! Awesome breakdowns there
Third time I've watched it johnnydel, and now I see it better than before. The way you take these apart, then put them back together is a perfect learning tool. Thanks, amigo.
Originally posted by NCommand:
That's some great information thl on the seam and post. Ward is a study freak and it was good to see him pick that up in game. I can't wait to see him solely focused on this one position for an off season esp. given he's most confident and natural there.

IMO the first play he gets "beat" on is BS. No matter what that was gonna be a losing situation most likely. That was a bad play call from our part and a good one from the Rams. DJ in that play pretty much is a wasted player and just stood there. They should've left him playing the zone on that side and Reaser shoulda had the dig responsibility so Ward could've helped over the top like he did his second time around.
[ Edited by SmokeCrabtrees on Mar 19, 2017 at 4:44 PM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Third time I've watched it johnnydel, and now I see it better than before. The way you take these apart, then put them back together is a perfect learning tool. Thanks, amigo.

jonnydel, thl408...same concept. Brotha's from anotha mutha.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Third time I've watched it johnnydel, and now I see it better than before. The way you take these apart, then put them back together is a perfect learning tool. Thanks, amigo.

jonnydel, thl408...same concept. Brotha's from anotha mutha.

For sure, I just hate the fact that jonnydels name always makes me crave Del Taco lol. Haven't had it in ages but used to love that use years ago.
Nice f**king cut ups dude. I can't believe this post isn't longer. Good s**t bro, nice work. A lot of work at that, my hats off to you for taking the time. Thats a few minute conversation that took at least an hour of your time to convey in each one.
[ Edited by JBrack on Mar 20, 2017 at 6:05 PM ]
One of the positive things from last year was Buckner's play, but when I watched the games last year I didn't focus on him so I only noticed him when he did a flash-bang thing like a sack. It seemed like he had at least his fair share of tackles but I can only recall seeing a big pile of bodies when he was making a lot of his tackles. Since we are kind of in a quiet time now, I wonder if any of you video analysis aces would be willing to put something together to show why Buckner might have the makings of an exceptional player - and areas he probably needs to improve in. Focusing on the trenches of d-line play isn't exactly an "all-22" type of film study, so I totally understand if that doesn't strike anyone's fancy; I appreciate that it takes a lot of work to do what you guys do.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by 49erphan:
One of the positive things from last year was Buckner's play, but when I watched the games last year I didn't focus on him so I only noticed him when he did a flash-bang thing like a sack. It seemed like he had at least his fair share of tackles but I can only recall seeing a big pile of bodies when he was making a lot of his tackles. Since we are kind of in a quiet time now, I wonder if any of you video analysis aces would be willing to put something together to show why Buckner might have the makings of an exceptional player - and areas he probably needs to improve in. Focusing on the trenches of d-line play isn't exactly an "all-22" type of film study, so I totally understand if that doesn't strike anyone's fancy; I appreciate that it takes a lot of work to do what you guys do.

I'll try to check Buckner out at some point this offseason, although trench play from an individual isn't near the top of my list of film to watch. I'll probably focus on weeks 7-10 when he has gotten his feet wet, and fatigue from playing so many snaps hasn't set in.
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