There are 272 users in the forums

Offseason All22 Film Study

Shop Find 49ers gear online
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Wow, if THAT isn't an indication of excellent game planning, I don't know what is. This is what I've wanted here since Walsh/Holmgren/Mooch.
Yup. I don't think a QB like Hoyer, not known for being a gunslinger, is going to go into a game taking that many shot plays unless it was a calculated, thought out plan. I wanna say that many times a team takes a shot downfield it's on '2nd and short' situations where an incompletion still gives them '3rd & manageable'. CLE was taking shots on 1st downs, and '3rd and short'. I'll be sure to show down and distance on those plays.

Its gonna be fun trying to playing along with Kyle. Trying to guess play calls. Personally, I love his formation usuage the best. It really is scheming guys open. I have a real, real good feeling about how his tenure is gonna play out.

Special.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,074
This started out as just wanting to watch Dontae Johnson against Julio Jones to see how DJ did playing some Cover3, assuming Saleh will play some of this. Mangini played lots of Cover3 towards the last half of that season. Bailing and watching everything in front of the CB is a different skillset than watching an individual WR's body movement while playing sticky man coverage. When I looked at DJ's 2015 snapcount and saw that he had a lot of snaps in the CIN and DET games, it became wanting to see three of the physically biggest, premier WRs play, and how DJ did against them.

Dontae Johnson has been kind of a mystery. Seems to play well when called upon, but always behind guys with lesser draft pedigree (Acker, Reaser, Chris Davis). He is now entering the final year of his rookie deal (4th) and has a chance to get a starting role with Brock gone, Ward moving to safety, and now being the most NFL experienced in the CB group. This would be a good year for DJ to make some noise.

There will be some more of DJ vs Julio, AJGreen, and Megatron cut ups. This cut up is to illustrate one assignment that the DBs need to do in Cover3. Robinson and Witherspoon have not put anything like this on film (playing deep zone). At least not that I've seen.

This is Shanahan vs Mangini
Two things that a bailing CB can be tasked to key on are the QB's shoulders, and the #2 WR. As he bails to his deep 1/3, the CB's eyes will be keying whatever they are coached to watch, while keeping #1 WR at the edge of their sight. If #1 goes vertical, match him. If #1 is not vertical, watch for #2 to go vertical, because that would threaten a seam in Cover3. We'll get into Nick Saban's Rip/Liz Cover3 pattern match, which is designed to defend the seams, at some point this offseason.

In this route concept, purple + yellow work to vertically stretch the strongside Hook defender (yellow LB). Red is to stall the deep 1/3 field side CB (DJohnson). Notice the wide split by the #1 WR - far - to keep the deep 1/3 CB far.
Many defenses playing Cover3 will show 2 deep safeties presnap, then rotate one safety down to an underneath zone. When an offense knows this, attack the area that safety came down from, which is what the yellow route does (Julio Jones lined up as the #3 WR).
Blue is deep zones, orange is underneath zones.


Because the presnap #2 runs a drag and crosses under Julio, Julio is now the new #2. When #1 does not go vertical, #1 becomes the responsibility of the strongside curl/flat defender. DJ can now focus solely on the #2. QB looks but doesn't pull the trigger. He had it.


DJ showing alertness, as if he knew the seam was going to be threatened. But there was still a window to be had due to how much ground DJ had to cover from being lined up outside the numbers.

--------
Below: Later in the same game.
Same route combination versus same Cover3 with a strongside rotation. Orange + yellow trying to vertically stretch the strongside Hook.


Julio is the new #2. DJ has seen this before and hustles upfield.


Hook defender vertically stretched (blue). QB mid windup.


Right picture is the play from earlier in the game. In both pics, Julio is 10 yards into his route.
Left picture is the current play: DJ has more depth and is slightly over the top of #2, in a better position to defend a seam route. Tartt has done much better with his slide to middle 1/3.


DJ played a good number of games at safety in college and here flashes good route recognition and zone awareness. This shows up a number times in the ATL/CIN/DET games.


I'm so excited to read this latest post, but I'm gonna post how excited I am right now to read it, and then read your post, and then come back and tell you how awesome your post was after I read it.

Nice, nice job thl. Thank you. In both cut ups it looks like Atlanta has that outside hook route wide open both times. Are we hoping the strong safety can make it over there on that long I out throw?
[ Edited by Lobo49er on May 5, 2017 at 4:07 PM ]
I really like how Shanahan moves his top wide WR around. In the above example Julio is being used as a traditional flexed out TE or in WCO terms a Y (think Brent Jones in 1994).

Personally I love this tight split of your best player. It's a great way to unravel coverage and also open up other routes when this guy is accounted for. In the last example, look how the hook opens up when Julio gets extra attention.
[ Edited by Niners816 on May 5, 2017 at 4:16 PM ]
Originally posted by Lobo49er:
I'm so excited to read this latest post, but I'm gonna post how excited I am right now to read it, and then read your post, and then come back and tell you how awesome your post was after I read it.

Nice, nice job thl. Thank you. In both cut ups it looks like Atlanta has that outside hook route wide open both times. Are we hoping the strong safety can make it over there on that long I out throw?

I'm going to post before you even read it...it's awesome.
I know Johnson has been looking forward to being a free agent for a long time now.

Maybe that changes if he is given a legit chance. (swear I've said this so many times before)

Hope Tartt goes back to his 2015 ways. Looked like a young Dashon Goldson for us... having an impact on the running game (hard tackles behind the LOS)... just being all over the field.

IMO, Jim O'Neil slowed his development...when he forced Bethea to start over him. When it seemed like Tartt had built momentum toward the end of his rookie year. Even when Bethea was OBVIOUSLY struggling last season, O'Neil kept throwing him out there.
Wow! The thread is back!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Lobo49er:
I'm so excited to read this latest post, but I'm gonna post how excited I am right now to read it, and then read your post, and then come back and tell you how awesome your post was after I read it.

Nice, nice job thl. Thank you. In both cut ups it looks like Atlanta has that outside hook route wide open both times. Are we hoping the strong safety can make it over there on that long I out throw?

I'm going to post before you even read it...it's awesome.

Lol 😂
Originally posted by thl408:
This started out as just wanting to watch Dontae Johnson against Julio Jones to see how DJ did playing some Cover3, assuming Saleh will play some of this. Mangini played lots of Cover3 towards the last half of that season. Bailing and watching everything in front of the CB is a different skillset than watching an individual WR's body movement while playing sticky man coverage. When I looked at DJ's 2015 snapcount and saw that he had a lot of snaps in the CIN and DET games, it became wanting to see three of the physically biggest, premier WRs play, and how DJ did against them.

Dontae Johnson has been kind of a mystery. Seems to play well when called upon, but always behind guys with lesser draft pedigree (Acker, Reaser, Chris Davis). He is now entering the final year of his rookie deal (4th) and has a chance to get a starting role with Brock gone, Ward moving to safety, and now being the most NFL experienced in the CB group. This would be a good year for DJ to make some noise.

There will be some more of DJ vs Julio, AJGreen, and Megatron cut ups. This cut up is to illustrate one assignment that the DBs need to do in Cover3. Robinson and Witherspoon have not put anything like this on film (playing deep zone). At least not that I've seen.

This is Shanahan vs Mangini
Two things that a bailing CB can be tasked to key on are the QB's shoulders, and the #2 WR. As he bails to his deep 1/3, the CB's eyes will be keying whatever they are coached to watch, while keeping #1 WR at the edge of their sight. If #1 goes vertical, match him. If #1 is not vertical, watch for #2 to go vertical, because that would threaten a seam in Cover3. We'll get into Nick Saban's Rip/Liz Cover3 pattern match, which is designed to defend the seams, at some point this offseason.

In this route concept, purple + yellow work to vertically stretch the strongside Hook defender (yellow LB). Red is to stall the deep 1/3 field side CB (DJohnson). Notice the wide split by the #1 WR - far - to keep the deep 1/3 CB far.
Many defenses playing Cover3 will show 2 deep safeties presnap, then rotate one safety down to an underneath zone. When an offense knows this, attack the area that safety came down from, which is what the yellow route does (Julio Jones lined up as the #3 WR).
Blue is deep zones, orange is underneath zones.


Because the presnap #2 runs a drag and crosses under Julio, Julio is now the new #2. When #1 does not go vertical, #1 becomes the responsibility of the strongside curl/flat defender. DJ can now focus solely on the #2. QB looks but doesn't pull the trigger. He had it.


DJ showing alertness, as if he knew the seam was going to be threatened. But there was still a window to be had due to how much ground DJ had to cover from being lined up outside the numbers.

--------
Below: Later in the same game.
Same route combination versus same Cover3 with a strongside rotation. Orange + yellow trying to vertically stretch the strongside Hook.


Julio is the new #2. DJ has seen this before and hustles upfield.


Hook defender vertically stretched (blue). QB mid windup.


Right picture is the play from earlier in the game. In both pics, Julio is 10 yards into his route.
Left picture is the current play: DJ has more depth and is slightly over the top of #2, in a better position to defend a seam route. Tartt has done much better with his slide to middle 1/3.


DJ played a good number of games at safety in college and here flashes good route recognition and zone awareness. This shows up a number times in the ATL/CIN/DET games.



Yeah I was talking about the same thing in another thread the other day. Johnson seems to perform or rise to the occasion when his number is called but never is really in the mix for a starting position. The only thing I can say is he just must be one of those gamers that knows how to bring it on game day but struggles​ to replicate it in practice.

This will be his best shot to win a starting job with thin depth at the corner position. I hope he does because I don't think Witherspoon is really a plug and play starter in September. He's got great measurables and potential, but I think his technique needs alot of work.

Johnson has been exposed to a variety of coverages with all the different coordinators he's had, so hopefully that versatility and knowledge will be more help than hindrance. He's got the size and potential to be very solid in what this system likes of it's corners.
[ Edited by Willisfn4life on May 6, 2017 at 12:27 PM ]
I think Saleh is going to use cover 1 with our corners playing press man a lot more than cover 3 zone. I think our corners are suited best for man. Also I'm trying to recall which podcast I was listening too, maybe Ross tucker with Cossell on, but they mentioned that the past season or 2 the Seattle style defenses are playing more cover 1 with press man rather than that cover 3 zone because OC's have started to find a lot more ways to expose it and beat it.
Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Yeah I was talking about the same thing in another thread the other day. Johnson seems to perform or rise to the occasion when his number is called but never is really in the mix for a starting position. The only thing I can say is he just must be one of those gamers that knows how to bring it on game day but struggles​ to replicate it in practice.

This will be his best shot to win a starting job with thin depth at the corner position. I hope he does because I don't think Witherspoon is really a plug and play starter in September. He's got great measurables and potential, but I think his technique needs alot of work.

Johnson has been exposed to a variety of coverages with all the different coordinators he's had, so hopefully that versatility and knowledge will be more help than hindrance. He's got the size and potential to be very solid in what this system likes of it's corners.

I'll take that lineup of DJ outside, Hodges and Tartt as the single-high S any day over Acker, Reid and Wilhoite. Acker would have blown the assignment, Reid would have been 3 seconds late (and 2-hand touched Julio after someone else made the tackle) and Wilhoite wouldn't even be in the screen shot.
Originally posted by Luckycharms:
I think Saleh is going to use cover 1 with our corners playing press man a lot more than cover 3 zone. I think our corners are suited best for man. Also I'm trying to recall which podcast I was listening too, maybe Ross tucker with Cossell on, but they mentioned that the past season or 2 the Seattle style defenses are playing more cover 1 with press man rather than that cover 3 zone because OC's have started to find a lot more ways to expose it and beat it.

That makes a lot of sense, like you said, with our personnel, in particular. With the pick of Witherspoon, it pretty much solidifies what we want to do...have two long 6'3" jam-press CB's outside, move Ward to FS d/t his study habits, quickness and range (speed) and play making ability with the action in front of him and have Tartt and Reid battle it out as the 8th man in the box as the "enforcer."

RCB: Ahkello Witherspoon; Dontae Johnson & Keith Reaser
S/CB: Will Redmond; K'Waun Williams & Prince Charles Iwora
LCB: Rashard Robinson; Adrian Colbert & Zach Franklin
FS: Jimmie Ward; Don Jones II, Lorenzo Jerome & Malik Golden
SS: Jaquiski Tartt; Eric Reid & Vinnie Sunseri

Extreme physicality. Thomas fits that. Foster fits that. Witherspoon & Robinson fit that mentality in coverage but not run support (yet), Johnson fits that, Bowman, Buckner, etc.

Lock up the receivers outside starting at the LOS, Ward to roam, front 7 to collapse and run defend, swarm tackling, strip sacks and fumbles, etc.

We still badly need an every down dominant Elephant. Hopefully one or two of these ER's turn out to be excellent nickel/dime ER's at least:

EDGE RUSHERS: Aaron Lynch, Eli Harold, Dekoda Watson, Pita Taumoepenu, Noble Nwachuckwu & Jimmie Gilbert
In the above plays, the RB runs up the seam and is released both times by the LB and the top side CB never picks him up. Is that a design flaw or was the other CB supposed to cover him?
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,074
Originally posted by PacTiger:
In the above plays, the RB runs up the seam and is released both times by the LB and the top side CB never picks him up. Is that a design flaw or was the other CB supposed to cover him?

That CB is Brock being baited by the #1 WR's Curl. Not being aware of what the #2 on that side of the field is doing. Unlike DJ. As soon as Brock's #1 doesn't go vertical, Brock needs to continue to bail to his deep 1/3 to cover that RB.
Originally posted by Niners816:
Its gonna be fun trying to playing along with Kyle. Trying to guess play calls. Personally, I love his formation usuage the best. It really is scheming guys open. I have a real, real good feeling about how his tenure is gonna play out.


For the sake of our team I hope you are terrible at it. Because if you can guess whats coming so can the other teams.
Search Share 49ersWebzone