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Offseason All22 Film Study

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  • thl408
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DJ is playing a deep 1/3. (not vs Megatron)
Switch concept vs Fire zone blitz
Switch concept works to attack the sideline deep 1/3, DJ.


DJ isn't bailing just yet, he's shuffling. I think he sees the #2 coming under and that's why he shuffles towards the sideline. DJ is definitely watching the play unfold and is aware of #2.


The WR stems inside, outside, then breaks to the skinny Post. QB mid release. DJ was leaning back and needs to recover. Tartt slow on his rotation to middle 1/3.


TD. It's impossible to tell if DJ leaned back towards the sideline when shuffling because of the WR running the Dino route, or the #2 WR running the Switch concept, which is designed to horizontally stretch DJ.

This throw was all-world. Stafford off his back foot.
  • thl408
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(Added some more starting at post #851)
That does it for DJ against some of the top WRs in the league. The cutup plays were cherry picked plays that I felt best illustrated the strengths and weaknesses observed in the games watched. All games were from 2015 (snapcount ATL=64, CIN=53, DET=70). DJ only got 100 snaps in all of 2016.

Strengths:
- zone awareness
- defense of vertical sideline routes

Weaknesses:
- lateral movement
- defense of inside breaking routes

DJ suffers from the typical weaknesses of a long CB which is quick lateral cuts, and staying low when changing direction. The two go hand in hand for taller CBs. He doesn't have (doesn't use) strong hands well enough to make up for this. Typically, a long CB should be grabby and have strong hand usage to impede and slow down WRs as they enter and exit their breaks. Not shown were multiple plays where DJ lost on inside breaking routes against Megatron. I've mentioned how watching a player go against high level competition is a good way to gauge their ability, but Megatron probably wins against 98% of CBs on hard in breaking routes. So in that sense I may need to see more to truly see how well DJ defends these type of routes. He also gave up a big catch to Julio on a Dig route, but it was because he tripped on Julio's foot. Appears to be average, not a strong tackler, but it was against Megatron and Julio that I saw him struggle to bring the WR down without having the WR fall forward for 3-4 yards. I can't make an honest assessment on his tackling.

In man coverage, he challenges very well on all vertical releases with sideline help - Go/Fade routes. His high zone IQ is a big plus. Mangini used him regularly as a MLB (middle underneath zone) in Nickel/Dime looks. When playing zone, he is rarely covering grass. Meaning he can find work and makes himself useful when there is no initial threat to his assigned zone. I think he would fit well if asked to play zone, bail, and diagnose plays. Would not fit well if asked to play a lot of man coverage. Overall, he has the skillset to be a player in this Cover3 scheme, but the league has trended towards lots of man coverage on 3rd downs when blitzes are dialed up. This is where he might lose out to RR/Witherspoon.
Originally posted by thl408:

Good transition from over the top to trail position. Nice PBU. How about a diving INT next time?

That's a TD if it were a better throw.
Originally posted by thl408:
(Added some more starting at post #851)
That does it for DJ against some of the top WRs in the league. The cutup plays were cherry picked plays that I felt best illustrated the strengths and weaknesses observed in the games watched. All games were from 2015 (snapcount ATL=64, CIN=53, DET=70). DJ only got 100 snaps in all of 2016.

Strengths:
- zone awareness
- defense of vertical sideline routes

Weaknesses:
- lateral movement
- defense of inside breaking routes

DJ suffers from the typical weaknesses of a long CB which is quick lateral cuts, and staying low when changing direction. The two go hand in hand for taller CBs. He doesn't have (doesn't use) strong hands well enough to make up for this. Typically, a long CB should be grabby and have strong hand usage to impede and slow down WRs as they enter and exit their breaks. Not shown were multiple plays where DJ lost on inside breaking routes against Megatron. I've mentioned how watching a player go against high level competition is a good way to gauge their ability, but Megatron probably wins against 98% of CBs on hard in breaking routes. So in that sense I may need to see more to truly see how well DJ defends these type of routes. He also gave up a big catch to Julio on a Dig route, but it was because he tripped on Julio's foot. Appears to be average, not a strong tackler, but it was against Megatron and Julio that I saw him struggle to bring the WR down without having the WR fall forward for 3-4 yards. I can't make an honest assessment on his tackling.

In man coverage, he challenges very well on all vertical releases with sideline help - Go/Fade routes. His high zone IQ is a big plus. Mangini used him regularly as a MLB (middle underneath zone) in Nickel/Dime looks. When playing zone, he is rarely covering grass. Meaning he can find work and makes himself useful when there is no initial threat to his assigned zone. I think he would fit well if asked to play zone, bail, and diagnose plays. Would not fit well if asked to play a lot of man coverage. Overall, he has the skillset to be a player in this Cover3 scheme, but the league has trended towards lots of man coverage on 3rd downs when blitzes are dialed up. This is where he might lose out to RR/Witherspoon.

How did I miss this? Great work thl...you won't see this kind of education may other places.

Given some of the pattern matching and suspect S support, I saw a couple where it looked like he was giving up the inside some (Bowman + S). But you highlighted his technique (strengths/weaknesses) very well either way.

One would hope that with a less complicated scheme, a scheme that fits his strengths and equally important, consistent snaps, he could throw up a real competition this off season and even win a starting job with focus on proper technique.

Can't thank you enough t.
  • thl408
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Thanks, NC. It all started as just wanting to see how DJ played in a Cover3. Then I saw his snap count for 2015 and noticed he played a lot against high level competition. It's too bad AJ McCarron sucks and wasn't able to test DJ. DJ's experience as a college safety was obvious.

Watching an individual player isn't really what generally interests me so next up I'll be showing how the "cutback" is not what describes the outside zone scheme with testimony from Kyle and the godfather of outside zone himself, Alex Gibbs. How outside zone is different from gap blocking concepts with regards to how it stresses a defensive front.

Here's a preview of what I'll be trying to explain with cutups (Kyle speaks about the "cutback" for about 20 seconds):
(Kyle/Lynch post draft recap presser): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qneaJoLKR-k&feature=youtu.be&t=20m31s
Originally posted by thl408:
Thanks, NC. It all started as just wanting to see how DJ played in a Cover3. Then I saw his snap count for 2015 and noticed he played a lot against high level competition. It's too bad AJ McCarron sucks and wasn't able to test DJ. DJ's experience as a college safety was obvious.

Watching an individual player isn't really what generally interests me so next up I'll be showing how the "cutback" is not what describes the outside zone scheme with testimony from Kyle and the godfather of outside zone himself, Alex Gibbs. How outside zone is different from gap blocking concepts with regards to how it stresses a defensive front.

Here's a preview of what I'll be trying to explain with cutups (Kyle speaks about the "cutback" for about 20 seconds):
(Kyle/Lynch post draft recap presser): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qneaJoLKR-k&feature=youtu.be&t=20m31s

This one is long overdue in here...can't wait for this topic. Thanks for the sneak preview and in leading this topic.
  • thl408
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This is about Outside Zone and the term "cutback" that is often times used to describe an outcome of an Outside Zone running play. We may hear this term many times, as long as Kyle Shanahan is head coach, when a 49er running back knifes upfield for yardage. But after reading this, you'll know why it's not a cutback. To show why the term cutback is even used, let's first contrast two run blocking schemes - Power/Gap blocking and Outside Zone. It will help to know how the defenders assigned to their run fit are stressed in a power blocking concept.

This is the Power play, one of the most ground and pound football plays. On this particular play, the designated gap to attack is the C gap.
Red is the force defender. His job on a run play is to make sure the RB does not get outside of him. Usually this is the 'end man on the line of scrimmage' (EMOLS).
Green is the playside defensive tackle, lined up adjacent to the gap that the RB will run through.
Orange is the defender assigned to the C gap. The gap that the RB is to run through.

Throughout these cutups, it will be important to note where the gaps are located on the field. Use the hash marks as landmarks to approximate where the gaps are located. On this play, note the location of the C gap. It aligns with the eyebrow of the bird logo.


Kickout block on the force defender. Double team the playside DT to move him away from the C gap.
Defender assigned to the C gap (orange) needs to read this and come up to fill. Meet the lead blocker in the hole.


Backside Guard leads through to block the defender assigned to the C gap. RB follows through. Notice how the C gap has not moved much from when the play started.




Another Power blocking concept is the Counter play. Same idea like the Power play, but ran to the weakside of the formation. Same color designations as above.


Double team the playside defensive tackle.


Kickout block the force defender. Lead block the defender assigned to the C gap (orange).




On both these examples of Power/Gap blocking concepts, the idea is to use force to move the defenders near the point of attack, away from the point of attack. To defend against these power blocking concepts, it require the defenders to hold their ground against the OL's drive blocking, or read the play and fill the gap they are assigned to.

Another Power blocking concept is the Trap play. The objective remains the same, get defenders away from the point of attack. The Trap play takes advantage of a defender that tries to get upfield by using his own movement to remove himself from the area that the RB will attack. Below, the 3tech will be trap blocked. The designated hole for the RB will be at the left side A gap.


Allow the 3t to move upfield by not blocking him with either of the offensive linemen (LT, LG) lined up across from him.


The A gap has not moved much from when the play began.




The idea of this Power blocking concept, again, is to account for each defender at the point of attack to create a hole for the RB. Power, Counter, and Trap plays all stress the defense by forcing each box defender to hold their ground in order to defend the gap they were assigned to.

Outside Zone (OZ)
Kyle Shanahan will be bringing (back) the Outside Zone scheme. This is a scheme that originated before the modern age of football. But it was Alex Gibbs that helped this concept become as popular as it is in today's game. Gibbs said, "I went to a couple of other jobs and they did not want to make this system the feature play. Finally, I went to Denver with a friend who wanted me to put in that system." That friend was Mike Shanahan.

The object on every OZ play is to bounce the run outside the edge. This is why Gibbs says, "We coach the running back to take what the defense gives and read the defenders from the outside to the inside". On the third step, the running back is either going downhill or taking the ball outside. The reason the decision is made on the third step is the timing of the blocks within the offensive line. On the third step, the runner has to make a decision."

Red is the EMOLS and is the first read for the RB. Notice the gaps and their location with respect to the hash marks.


Although it can vary, coaches will often tell the RB to read the defenders' helmets. If the blocker has his helmet on the outside earhole of the defender, that defender is pinned to the inside, provided the blocker can execute the reach block. Can't go anywhere without your head. Red will have to shed in order to get his helmet to the outside.


The blocker (left tackle) reach blocks and seals the edge. This tells the RB to bounce it outside.


This is the object of every OZ play - bounce it outside.


Being able to bounce outside will put the fear into the defense of getting beaten to the outside and will set up the "Cutback" run.


But it's not a cutback says Gibbs: "There is not a cutback theory. The cutback is geared off the aiming spot of what is happening (with the offensive line)."

Kyle Shanahan had this to say about the cutback: "Everyone says, the 'cutback', I look at it more as just getting downhill. Because the more you can make a defense play sideways, you just get downhill and it looks like you cutback, but it's because everyone's scared you're running outside. And so they go sideways and you get downhill, but it's behind the backside tackle."

This is the OZ play from the gif above. The aiming point is the Tight End. Can that TE seal the edge? Due to the positioning of the force defender (D gap defender), it's a tough reach block to make.


Notice the backside C gap (yellow) defender.


Can't seal the edge. Notice how much every gap has moved laterally from the start of the play. The defenders must follow the gap they were assigned to defend. The playside force defender (D gap) is now near the top of the numbers. That means the C gap defender next to him has to move as well, and so on. All the defenders have to keep their relationship, spacing wise, with the adjacent defender in order to keep the gaps tight.


The majority of the defensive line forms a wall and flows together, except for one guy - the backside C gap defender. He's now behind the play and blocked. The RB heads straight downhill, behind the backside tackle.


It's not until he passes the LoS that he cuts left across the field. Everything before and just past the LoS was downhill.


The RB starts off reading the TE aiming at the playside D gap. He ends up running through the backside C gap, which has moved nearly 8 yards since the start of the play.


The manner in which a defense is stressed trying to defend OZ is completely different than Power concepts. Defenders can't hold their ground against OZ because every gap is moving towards the sideline. The ball isn't going to come back to them if they hold their ground. They are forced to follow along.


Shifting the location of the gaps forces each defender to keep the same space and distance with their fellow team mate. If they hold their ground, they would abandon their gap.


The force defender (red D gap) forces contain and the RB can't bounce outside. The read is outside to inside. Look for two friendly helmets to be next to each other. A defender can't go anywhere without his helmet. The B gap is the correct read.


There is no cutback. The RB plants and heads downhill.


Make a read by the third step, another 2 steps to turn the body, explode downhill. No shake and bake, no jukes. Live with the decision.


The RB begins the play by running towards the playside, but ends up going through the backside B gap, while never cutting back.


Now this is a cutback.


"Nice cutback run there by the 49ers running back." Hopefully we hear that a lot on Sundays. Let the announcers talk about the cutback when the 49ers run OZ. We know what is really happening. It's all downhill.
I dont think I've ever read a forum with fans like you and ab

Learn more about the game I thought I understood everytime I open this thread.
  • mayo49
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Thl and Ab are the best. We're very spoiled.
Originally posted by thl408:


Outside Zone (OZ)






Terrific topic and an even better illustration! Big time props to thl...

Next step is to guestimate how well our current personnel fit this scheme.

Notes:
  • You can see how crucial the play is of the T's and TE's. Watching Pears is a perfect illustration of how no RB was going to get to that edge and he's blown backwards on every snap.
  • 3 seconds; watching Hyde, he looks like he has excellent patience on picking whichever gap opens up. He might have a big year for us. He clearly can make something out of nothing. But he'll have to be able to trust the strong side edge blockers or he'll be running "down hill" on every snap, limiting the gaps he can hit.
  • Paulsen & McDonald will play big roles in sealing that edge.
  • Outside of Garcon, we don't have any WR's that can block downfield to allow for more yards off tackle and down the sidelines.
  • 3 seconds; watching big Trenton Brown angle one way pre snap, fire back at the snap to wall off and then slide to the second level to open up the hole is an important skill set. We'll have to see how he moves laterally and on the run but if he can wall off that edge and maintain it for that 3 seconds, he'll be our starting RT, no doubt.
  • The G play is just a crucial; proper angles and washing the DL down the line and creating gaps.
  • The C is the captain of it all and we all know Kyle loves the wiley veterans. As always, it may come down to health between Zuttah, Kilgore and Barnes.
  • Strength; while the scheme is designed to get the defense defending sideline to sideline, the OL still needs to be strong and be able to move defenders on the move or completely wall them off. This bodes well for stronger players like Garnett and Brown even though they are seen as better suited for power.
[ Edited by NCommand on May 31, 2017 at 7:48 AM ]
  • Giedi
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I'm wondering if a D line shift at the last moment, before the ball is hiked, might screw up the zone blocking schemes. Defenses like the Flex defense for example, where the D Line would move just prior to the snap might do it. I mean you got a Randy White (for example) that is lined up in a Linebacker position away from the LOS, then he flexes to the 3 tech DT position ON the LOS at the last moment. Man, I would think the Zone Blocking assignments would be totally screwed up by just that one move alone.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by Giedi:
I'm wondering if a D line shift at the last moment, before the ball is hiked, might screw up the zone blocking schemes. Defenses like the Flex defense for example, where the D Line would move just prior to the snap might do it. I mean you got a Randy White (for example) that is lined up in a Linebacker position away from the LOS, then he flexes to the 3 tech DT position ON the LOS at the last moment. Man, I would think the Zone Blocking assignments would be totally screwed up by just that one move alone.

Zone blocking adjusts to slants and last second shifts better than man/power blocking concepts. It's up to the OLmen to quickly think on the fly, but there are rules in place to allow for the adjustments to be made. Can shifts and slants screw up blocking assignments? Sure, if the OLmen aren't quick thinking, but not because zone blocking rules doesn't have a way to adjust.

A basic rule is if there is a DLman lined up across from the OLman, that OLman is considered 'covered'. If covered, block that DLman, simple. If the OLman is uncovered, combo block with an adjacent OLman to the playside. If the defense slants right after the snap, and the covered/uncovered designation changes, adjust accordingly. If the defense shifts right before the snap, then the adjustment is made immediately before the snap, without communication. That's where chemistry and familiarity comes in. Alex Gibbs was a proponent of running just outside zone and that's it. Nothing else. All to build cohesiveness and chemistry along the OL.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I'm wondering if a D line shift at the last moment, before the ball is hiked, might screw up the zone blocking schemes. Defenses like the Flex defense for example, where the D Line would move just prior to the snap might do it. I mean you got a Randy White (for example) that is lined up in a Linebacker position away from the LOS, then he flexes to the 3 tech DT position ON the LOS at the last moment. Man, I would think the Zone Blocking assignments would be totally screwed up by just that one move alone.

Zone blocking adjusts to slants and last second shifts better than man/power blocking concepts. It's up to the OLmen to quickly think on the fly, but there are rules in place to allow for the adjustments to be made. Can shifts and slants screw up blocking assignments? Sure, if the OLmen aren't quick thinking, but not because zone blocking rules doesn't have a way to adjust.

A basic rule is if there is a DLman lined up across from the OLman, that OLman is considered 'covered'. If covered, block that DLman, simple. If the OLman is uncovered, combo block with an adjacent OLman to the playside. If the defense slants right after the snap, and the covered/uncovered designation changes, adjust accordingly. If the defense shifts right before the snap, then the adjustment is made immediately before the snap, without communication. That's where chemistry and familiarity comes in. Alex Gibbs was a proponent of running just outside zone and that's it. Nothing else. All to build cohesiveness and chemistry along the OL.

Unfortunately, that chemistry will take a bit of time to get going. My hope is no O Line injuries AT ALL this season, so next season, they will be pretty much unconscious when they make their adjustments on teams that will line shift at the last moment.
  • Giedi
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I think the reason Kyle likes the Zone Blocking is to catch teams running stunts. Here is a video of I think teams trying to run a stunt and they get caught wrong-footed with the zone run. Wow, pretty effective. I know Walsh liked to run the sweep against stunts, but with the crack back and cut block rules banning those kinds of blocks - the Zone Run seems a lot more effective than the Greenbay Sweep and safer for D Linemen too...

Originally posted by thl408:
Zone blocking adjusts to slants and last second shifts better than man/power blocking concepts. It's up to the OLmen to quickly think on the fly, but there are rules in place to allow for the adjustments to be made. Can shifts and slants screw up blocking assignments? Sure, if the OLmen aren't quick thinking, but not because zone blocking rules doesn't have a way to adjust.

A basic rule is if there is a DLman lined up across from the OLman, that OLman is considered 'covered'. If covered, block that DLman, simple. If the OLman is uncovered, combo block with an adjacent OLman to the playside. If the defense slants right after the snap, and the covered/uncovered designation changes, adjust accordingly. If the defense shifts right before the snap, then the adjustment is made immediately before the snap, without communication. That's where chemistry and familiarity comes in. Alex Gibbs was a proponent of running just outside zone and that's it. Nothing else. All to build cohesiveness and chemistry along the OL.

If you look at the changes formation wise elder Shanny did when going to Denver it's pretty apparent it had this OZ blocking scheme in mind. Our horizontal stacked forms (split, far, near) became more I based forms (strong and weak). I'd imagine this was so the back would be 7 yards of the LOS abs therefore have more time to read the defenders.

If you think about it, it a perfect marriage for a WCO passing attack. Not only do you have a run game exploiting the outside, but mostly all passing concepts have a similar outside flat attack. This emphasis on outside the numbers makes the defense compensate and this compensation opens up the down hill running and the drag/in cutting routes.
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