There are 241 users in the forums

Offseason All22 Film Study

Shop Find 49ers gear online
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yeah, it is, but, we did it against them with up gabba and McD. But, it took a long time to develop. We did it off PA and happened to have really good protection and Gabbert threw with a lot of anticipation. It's definitely not a play you can bread and butter and hope to live off of. Plus, you have to outrun the LB. In one of your cover 3 cutups in the other film thread you'll see that. Take a look at it, there's the MLB running with a WR down the middle in a crosser- that's classic "mable" coverage stuff.
This play here?


I see. So that ILB has to pattern match any crossers he sees in case the crosser reaches the side of the Mable CB, who is occupied in man coverage and can't cover his normal deep 1/3.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yeah, it is, but, we did it against them with up gabba and McD. But, it took a long time to develop. We did it off PA and happened to have really good protection and Gabbert threw with a lot of anticipation. It's definitely not a play you can bread and butter and hope to live off of. Plus, you have to outrun the LB. In one of your cover 3 cutups in the other film thread you'll see that. Take a look at it, there's the MLB running with a WR down the middle in a crosser- that's classic "mable" coverage stuff.
This play here?


I see. So that ILB has to pattern match any crossers he sees in case the crosser reaches the side of the Mable CB, who is occupied in man coverage and can't cover his normal deep 1/3.

I can't see the play above, but yep. It's a tall order, which is why the pass rush is crucial.

Here's a diagram of it from Saban with the tide:
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Oh that's exactly what's going on in the gif (not sure why it didn't post above). Same 4x1 formation and the MLB matches the deep crosser to protect the Mable side. Gonna be interesting to see how quickly Saleh can get these ILBs to pattern match. Bow/Brooks are vets coming from Fangio's defense. Foster is well versed coming from Saban's defense.
Who do yall think will be the two starting Nickel LBs come week 1?
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Who do yall think will be the two starting Nickel LBs come week 1?

Typing out loud but could we see a Smith - Foster combination (Smith off the bench for Bowman)?
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Who do yall think will be the two starting Nickel LBs come week 1?

Typing out loud but could we see a Smith - Foster combination (Smith off the bench for Bowman)?

So, SOOO tough. Im going Smith and Bow, Foster subs in for both until further notice.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Going back and re-watching the 2017 pass plays gave me an added appreciation of Kyle's passing offense. How well thought out the formations, presnap motion, and personnel usage were as well as how creative some of his pass play designs are. Offenses throughout the league share many of the same route concepts. I wanted to highlight some of the uncommon play designs and tendencies so we get a sense of Kyle's creativity on how he busts coverages.

Included will be plays where I found the formation, personnel, motion, and/or route combinations intriguing. I limited the cutups to plays that were not during a two minute offense, not during garbage time, and successful (completed passes) - just so it looks cooler.

First up is Tampa 2
This coverage is strong in the Flats with CBs patrolling and tries to get the best of both worlds from Cover2 and Cover3. At the snap, the middle LB (Mike) will turn and face the passing strength of the formation - side has 3+ route runners - and ride the "pipe", shadowing any threat up the middle of the field in order to protect the seam in between the two deep safeties.


Kyle has shown that he will attack the MIKE in coverage since there are only a handful of MIKEs in the league that can handle WRs and TEs in coverage.

Red (Goodwin) is running a clearout to occupy the deep safety as well as the Flat defender.
Orange is designed to occupy the orange Hook/Curl (H/C) defender.
Yellow is the primary to bust this coverage.


Goodwin stems outside to widen the red safety towards the numbers and to occupy the Flat defender who is riding Goodwin vertical. Flat defenders will ride any vertical threat if they see no threat to their Flat.

TTaylor curls and draws the attention of the H/C.
ARobinson attacks the leverage of the MIKE (blue) by stemming inside to get the MIKE's weight transferred to his heels.


As soon as the MIKE is leaning back, ARob breaks his route outside. Not many MIKE backers will be able to stay with a WR in this situation. QB is mid windup.


+21. Goodwin's clearout vacates the area. Taylor's snag pulls the H/C forward for a more defined passing lane.

---------------

Similar idea to the play above, attacking the MIKE's leverage. This looks a lot like Sail concept but Bourne's route has some detail to it that allows this route combo to bust Tampa 2.


Bourne stems inside to get the MIKE (blue) leaning back.


Goodwin occupies the Flat (red) and deep safety and Hyde draws the H/C defender (orange) to give a clear passing lane.QB is mid windup as Bourne breaks to the outside, very hard for a MIKE to defend.


+21

-------------------
Because the MIKE always faces the passing strength of the formation as he's going up the pipe, this can be used to the attack from the weak side of the formation. With 3 WRs to one side of the formation, it's obvious to the defense which side has more speed and catching ability. Kyle will do this often (TE/RB to one side, WRs to the other side).
There will be a few cut ups with formations like this. One thing a defense will do when in a 2 deep safety shell against this type of formation is have the safety on the RB/TE side line up with less depth since RB/TE aren't as likely to threaten deep.
Red route clears the MIKE.


TTaylor holds the H/C. Celek attacks the vacated area. There's a blown coverage on this play (no weakside H/C defender) but the idea is clear, attack the area vacated by the MIKE.



------------
And of course Kyle will use Triangle stretches against zone, a WCO staple concept. Red + Yellow for the vertical stretch, Yellow + Orange for horizontal. vs Tampa2


Celek occupies the MIKE. Blue H/C defender is isolated 2v1, takes one step towards the orange route (Breida), and that's all that's needed in a 3 step ball control triangle stretch play.


Kittles curls inside and away from the H/C.


+8


Next part: Quarters/Cover6
Thank you thl, I've missed these, they've taught me so much. It got me thinking how much value Roquan Smith would have to a team who uses a lot of Tampa 2, as I'd previously thought that our only rivals would be other Cover 3 teams.

I already had a ton of respect for Kyle, but this stuff reinforces just how bright a mind he is, love where we're headed.


This might be one of those plays where Kyle will tell Celek, you don't have to flinch when you catch the ball cause there will be no one there to hit you. Like Walsh told Dwight long ago
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Thank you thl, I've missed these, they've taught me so much. It got me thinking how much value Roquan Smith would have to a team who uses a lot of Tampa 2, as I'd previously thought that our only rivals would be other Cover 3 teams.

I already had a ton of respect for Kyle, but this stuff reinforces just how bright a mind he is, love where we're headed.

With all the different coverages and how a real offensive coordinator attacks the coverages - it's no wonder a pass good rush just erases all those offensive concepts from the git go.
There is more to this throw and catch. A lot of QB's will lead the WR on the out route for a possible deflection, hard hit, or INT by the outside CB. You can tell the QB purposefully made the WR stop to catch the ball. Great throw while just about to be hit.

Originally posted by thl408:
Included will be plays where I found the formation, personnel, motion, and/or route combinations intriguing.

One of these days, you, JD and 816 should start up a podcast together or narrate compiled videos. Quality film review like this would quickly rise to the top. Hell, look at Baldy's 1-minute clips and narration. They bring in fans of the game too, not just 49er fans. And who wouldn't appreciate a breakdown of the best in the biz --- Kyle Shanahan's WCO.

PS: Just thankful you guys are ours! Keep doing your thang.
[ Edited by NCommand on Apr 10, 2018 at 10:10 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
There is more to this throw and catch. A lot of QB's will lead the WR on the out route for a possible deflection, hard hit, or INT by the outside CB. You can tell the QB purposefully made the WR stop to catch the ball. Great throw while just about to be hit.


Not sure what the down and distance was but I like is that he moved in the pocket and pushed the ball further down field. He could've hit Taylor for a quick slant. And if Brown holds his block he could've went deep to whoever that is going downfield.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by Joecool:
There is more to this throw and catch. A lot of QB's will lead the WR on the out route for a possible deflection, hard hit, or INT by the outside CB. You can tell the QB purposefully made the WR stop to catch the ball. Great throw while just about to be hit.

Not sure what the down and distance was but I like is that he moved in the pocket and pushed the ball further down field. He could've hit Taylor for a quick slant. And if Brown holds his block he could've went deep to whoever that is going downfield.
Compliments for Hoyer? Agreed that was a nice throw. "One foot in front of the numbers", isn't always the best ball location. Against zone when every defender is watching the QB, that can sometimes lead the WR right into concussion protocol. The QB has an obligation to protect his WR by forcing him to stop his route, or leading him away from coverage.
It was 3rd & 10. I put the down and distance in the backfield.
Originally posted by thl408:
Compliments for Hoyer? Agreed that was a nice throw. "One foot in front of the numbers", isn't always the best ball location. Against zone when every defender is watching the QB, that can sometimes lead the WR right into concussion protocol. The QB has an obligation to protect his WR by forcing him to stop his route, or leading him away from coverage.
It was 3rd & 10. I put the down and distance in the backfield.

I think you might have posted the link to me months ago....but have you seen any of the adjustments Kyle does on his Pin concepts? I'm having a hard time remembering if it was the post or the dig that would get broken off. I want to say it was the post that got converted to a post-out to counter act defenses squatting on that concept.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Apr 10, 2018 at 6:26 PM ]
Share 49ersWebzone