Offseason All22 Film Study

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not done talking 21 personnel because I think that's something that sets Kyle's offense apart from the majority of the league. For the 2017 season, the 49ers ran '21' the most in the NFL, but a deeper dive shows that when JG came on board, they went crazy with '21' personnel. Nowadays we hear about how defenses spend most of their him in nickel. Kyle is one of the few coaches that use '21' to keep defenses in base.

The 49ers usage of '21' is directly tied to Juice's snapcounts. In the first 9 games he played (he missed a couple due to injury), Juice averaged 24 snaps a game. Starting with the CHI game (Jimmy's first start) till the end of the season, Juice's average snapcount in those 5 weeks jumped to 37 snaps. Many factors contribute to this including the score being close which allows for run/pass neutral game situations, and converting 3rd downs to stay on the field.

All this reading about '21' has me interested in breaking down the 49ers run game from 21, and how they execute so many misdirection/playaction plays from this grouping since the opposing defense has to honor the run game first. We see so many slide concepts from this where the TE or FB goes against the flow of the OL and slips open.


Linked below is an article that is focused on the Jaguars defense and its strength in defending '11' personnel and weakness in defending '21'. It's a lengthy article so I'll mention some of the 49er related stuff below. The article focuses a lot on the 49ers' week 16 win vs the Jags as a preview on how the Patriots will attack the Jags in the AFCCG. Italics are from the article.

• The 49ers were fascinating because, for the first half of the year, they used 11 personnel a lot. Through the first 7 weeks, they used 11 personnel on 62% of offensive snaps, which was 15th most in the league at that time. But in large part due to injuries, they shifted to much less 11 over the rest of the season.
• But in their game against the Jaguars, however, the brilliant Kyle Shanahan had even more devious things in mind to attack the Jaguars weaknesses. Whether this was planned based on 49ers grading of Jaguars pass defense in 11 or not, Kyle Shanahan chose to use 11 personnel on just 21 of 66 offensive plays, or 32% of the time.
• In the 49ers case, they chose 21 more than 12 to attack the Jaguars (44% of their plays came when using 21 personnel).

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2018/the-secret-to-beating-the-jaguars-pass-defense

21 w/ Juice and McKinnon will present many problems for defenses. It's going to be interesting to see if teams stay in base or nickel to match up with 'em.

lol can't wait l

Originally posted by Niners816:
44% of the time vs Jax is almost like the old days. Of course there's really not data that I could find but I'd be willing to bet that in the latter part of our dynasty (think '92-'98) we were in base at least 50% of the time. Prior to that I'd say the base was more in that 60-65% range.

The league as a whole runs it 7% if that one personnel grouping chart is correct and we led with 28% I seem to recall. Now if we were more in that 40-45% with Jimmy that is bucking a league wide trend and makes us an outlier offense that the league really doesn't see week to week.

Seventeen teams used '21' personnel 5% or less. 49ers are already an outlier at 28%. If it goes up to 40% can we call it a gimmick offense that uses the out-of-date FB too much?

Originally posted by thl408:
Kyle showed a clear preference for '21' last season. In 2017, teams like JAC and BAL showed a clear preference for 12 (1rb/2te/2wr). Both force the defense to stay in base (4 defensive backs).

21 (2rb/1te/2wr)


12

This is from the Hoodie himself as he discusses the differences in '21' and '12'. There's a lot of nerdy X&Os stuff in his answer. Below are snippets.
-------------------
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2013/08/bill_belichick_dishes_on_differences_between_12_and_21
Bill Belichick was asked today to explain the different advantages in sets with two running backs and one tight end ("21" personnel) instead of one running back and two tight ends ("12"). Both sets also include two wide receivers.
- "Well, I think when you, just fundamentally, when you have one back in the backfield (12) and you have four on-the-line receivers, that gives you an ability to get into the defense potentially with four people," Belichick said. "Or even if it's three of them, sometimes the defense isn't sure which three of them it is. One tight end could be in it and the other guy could be in protection, that type of thing."
- "But as far as your running gaps, I mean, you can put more width at the formation by having a guy on the line, whether it's four on one side and two on the other side of the center, or three and three. You just have a wider front, which there are some advantages to that. By having them in the backfield, you can create that same four-man surface or three-man surface after the snap so the defense doesn't know where the four-man surface or three-man surface is. The fullback has to –- he can build that from the backfield."
- "And then there are also, let's say, a greater variety of blocking schemes with the fullback in the backfield (21) because he can block different guys and come from different angles. He's not always behind the quarterback. He could be offset one way or the other and create different blocking schemes and angles that it's harder to get from the line of scrimmage."
- "Also, depending on who your tight end is, it can be a little bit easier to pass protect seven men because two of them are in the backfield (21) instead of us having one in the backfield. I think fundamentally it's a little easier to pick them up when you a have a guy in the backfield that can step up and block him from the fullback position (21) as opposed to a tight end in the line of scrimmage (12)
- "Obviously when you have a guy in the backfield (21), it's harder to get those two receivers vertically into the defense in the passing game. They're usually running shorter routes to the flat or checking over the ball or those kind of things, short crossing routes, versus having that fourth receiver on the line of scrimmage who can run some downfield routes,"
------------------
So what Hoodie is basically saying:
- In the passing game: '12' allows for the 2TEs to get into their routes faster since they are closer to the line of scrimmage when compared to a FB in the backfield ('21'). So '12' allows the offense to threaten vertically easier than '21'.
- In the run game: '12' with two inline TEs will spread the defensive box wider. But '21' allows the FB to move and set the strongside after the snap. After the snap allows the offense to be more unpredictable with unbalanced formations. More variety in run game concepts with a FB.
- In blitz pickup: '21' puts two potential blockers in the backfield which is easier to pass protect because they can see blitzers coming - as opposed to '12' where TEs are inline.

Listening to Hoodie or Saban or Shanny talk X's and O's takes me to my happy place.....

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Listening to Hoodie or Saban or Shanny talk X's and O's takes me to my happy place.....

Kyle provides tidbits all the time, so enjoyable when he over-answers a question. Saban has his coaching clinics that we can find on the web. But Hoodie doesn't delve deep into that stuff in public so it was nice to find that article where he speaks on a topic that is tied to the 49ers. Hoodie revealed his vision when he paired Gronk with AHernandez and it seemed to start a trend with the two TE sets. Kyle showed his preference when he shelled out top dollar for a FB.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Listening to Hoodie or Saban or Shanny talk X's and O's takes me to my happy place.....

Kyle provides tidbits all the time, so enjoyable when he over-answers a question. Saban has his coaching clinics that we can find on the web. But Hoodie doesn't delve deep into that stuff in public so it was nice to find that article where he speaks on a topic that is tied to the 49ers. Hoodie revealed his vision when he paired Gronk with AHernandez and it seemed to start a trend with the two TE sets. Kyle showed his preference when he shelled out top dollar for a FB.

What I've seen with Kyle, and why I like his approach so much, is that he blends the misdirection of the the ZBS with utilizing great blocking angles usually seen in a PWR scheme. That FB gives him a lot of options in the run game and misdirection. I think that's why he likes McKinnon so much. He's a guy who can get so shifty and then turn on the jets. So, if he can misdirect the defense they won't be able to catch up afterwards. He runs so many stretch, stretch, then split zones, then counters, then inside zones - it puts so much lateral stress on the defense to figure out they hesitate -when they hesitate they have guys who will make you pay dearly. But, it requires a smart, athletic FB.

Then, after he's done all that in the run game you still have to worry about slide passes or a FB running 30 yards down the field, lol. What is this gimmick offense????!!!???

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:
44% of the time vs Jax is almost like the old days. Of course there's really not data that I could find but I'd be willing to bet that in the latter part of our dynasty (think '92-'98) we were in base at least 50% of the time. Prior to that I'd say the base was more in that 60-65% range.

The league as a whole runs it 7% if that one personnel grouping chart is correct and we led with 28% I seem to recall. Now if we were more in that 40-45% with Jimmy that is bucking a league wide trend and makes us an outlier offense that the league really doesn't see week to week.

Seventeen teams used '21' personnel 5% or less. 49ers are already an outlier at 28%. If it goes up to 40% can we call it a gimmick offense that uses the out-of-date FB too much?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
What I've seen with Kyle, and why I like his approach so much, is that he blends the misdirection of the the ZBS with utilizing great blocking angles usually seen in a PWR scheme. That FB gives him a lot of options in the run game and misdirection. I think that's why he likes McKinnon so much. He's a guy who can get so shifty and then turn on the jets. So, if he can misdirect the defense they won't be able to catch up afterwards. He runs so many stretch, stretch, then split zones, then counters, then inside zones - it puts so much lateral stress on the defense to figure out they hesitate -when they hesitate they have guys who will make you pay dearly. But, it requires a smart, athletic FB.

Then, after he's done all that in the run game you still have to worry about slide passes or a FB running 30 yards down the field, lol. What is this gimmick offense????!!!???

We see those slide concepts result in easy throw, which anyone can make, that puts FBs and TEs in space to run after catch. All set up from making the first 1.5 seconds of the play look the same as a run play that was called earlier in the game. To create that lateral stress you speak of. If a defense is seen cheating a certain direction, hit them with the complimentary play to make them pay. The OZ run game wasn't even that good last season, and the slide concepts still worked. Imagine if he gets the OZ game humming.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
What I've seen with Kyle, and why I like his approach so much, is that he blends the misdirection of the the ZBS with utilizing great blocking angles usually seen in a PWR scheme. That FB gives him a lot of options in the run game and misdirection. I think that's why he likes McKinnon so much. He's a guy who can get so shifty and then turn on the jets. So, if he can misdirect the defense they won't be able to catch up afterwards. He runs so many stretch, stretch, then split zones, then counters, then inside zones - it puts so much lateral stress on the defense to figure out they hesitate -when they hesitate they have guys who will make you pay dearly. But, it requires a smart, athletic FB.

Then, after he's done all that in the run game you still have to worry about slide passes or a FB running 30 yards down the field, lol. What is this gimmick offense????!!!???

We see those slide concepts result in easy throw, which anyone can make, that puts FBs and TEs in space to run after catch. All set up from making the first 1.5 seconds of the play look the same as a run play that was called earlier in the game. To create that lateral stress you speak of. If a defense is seen cheating a certain direction, hit them with the complimentary play to make them pay. The OZ run game wasn't even that good last season, and the slide concepts still worked. Imagine if he gets the OZ game humming.

I don't know if the stats was kept back in the 80's but it seems to me from my memory, Bill Walsh kept the team in 21 personnel often.

I remember him being asked about what was commonly called "the two back set" then.
He said it was the most flexible formation and it allowed him to keep the element of surprise. Once you go shotgun, 4-5 wide, theirs not a lot of guess work for defenders.

I am extremely pleased to see the return of a true Bill Walsh styled west coast offense, it still seems to work!

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I don't know if the stats was kept back in the 80's but it seems to me from my memory, Bill Walsh kept the team in 21 personnel often.

I remember him being asked about what was commonly called "the two back set" then.
He said it was the most flexible formation and it allowed him to keep the element of surprise. Once you go shotgun, 4-5 wide, theirs not a lot of guess work for defenders.

I am extremely pleased to see the return of a true Bill Walsh styled west coast offense, it still seems to work!

Bill loved to have 2 backs in a split formation. That way he could do mirror stuff and the defense wouldn't be able to key one way or another.

Originally posted by thl408:

Seventeen teams used '21' personnel 5% or less. 49ers are already an outlier at 28%. If it goes up to 40% can we call it a gimmick offense that uses the out-of-date FB too much?

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

I don't know if the stats was kept back in the 80's but it seems to me from my memory, Bill Walsh kept the team in 21 personnel often.

I remember him being asked about what was commonly called "the two back set" then.
He said it was the most flexible formation and it allowed him to keep the element of surprise. Once you go shotgun, 4-5 wide, theirs not a lot of guess work for defenders.

I am extremely pleased to see the return of a true Bill Walsh styled west coast offense, it still seems to work!

Yep, my memory of Walsh offense in the 80's is the same. I rarely see it without the 2 back set. I was younger back then, and didn't pay attention to football as much like now, but it seemed he can go deep with the 2backs set too despite what Belichick indicated.

I guess you can go deep with Rice with any formation

Glad the WCO DNA passed on through to Kyle

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I don't know if the stats was kept back in the 80's but it seems to me from my memory, Bill Walsh kept the team in 21 personnel often.

I remember him being asked about what was commonly called "the two back set" then.
He said it was the most flexible formation and it allowed him to keep the element of surprise. Once you go shotgun, 4-5 wide, theirs not a lot of guess work for defenders.

I am extremely pleased to see the return of a true Bill Walsh styled west coast offense, it still seems to work!

Yep, my memory of Walsh offense in the 80's is the same. I rarely see it without the 2 back set. I was younger back then, and didn't pay attention to football as much like now, but it seemed he can go deep with the 2backs set too despite what Belichick indicated.

I guess you can go deep with Rice with any formation

Glad the WCO DNA passed on through to Kyle

Well, what Hoodie was talking about was being able to utilize those bigger guys that you use to keep the defense in base in vertical stretches or deep horizontals.

A TE on the line can run a seam route, DIG, deep out, corner route - all staples of vertical stretching plays. Having that FB try and run a DIG in time with a post route or shallow cross to create a vertical stretch isn't an option. That's what he's talking about. Not meaning you can't throw a deep pass, but you can't get your 4th or 5th receiving options into deeper verticals so the defense doesn't have to clue into them as variants of passing concepts.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Well, what Hoodie was talking about was being able to utilize those bigger guys that you use to keep the defense in base in vertical stretches or deep horizontals.

A TE on the line can run a seam route, DIG, deep out, corner route - all staples of vertical stretching plays. Having that FB try and run a DIG in time with a post route or shallow cross to create a vertical stretch isn't an option. That's what he's talking about. Not meaning you can't throw a deep pass, but you can't get your 4th or 5th receiving options into deeper verticals so the defense doesn't have to clue into them as variants of passing concepts.

Ok, thanks

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

I don't know if the stats was kept back in the 80's but it seems to me from my memory, Bill Walsh kept the team in 21 personnel often.

I remember him being asked about what was commonly called "the two back set" then.
He said it was the most flexible formation and it allowed him to keep the element of surprise. Once you go shotgun, 4-5 wide, theirs not a lot of guess work for defenders.

I am extremely pleased to see the return of a true Bill Walsh styled west coast offense, it still seems to work!

Yep, my memory of Walsh offense in the 80's is the same. I rarely see it without the 2 back set. I was younger back then, and didn't pay attention to football as much like now, but it seemed he can go deep with the 2backs set too despite what Belichick indicated.

I guess you can go deep with Rice with any formation

Glad the WCO DNA passed on through to Kyle

Originally posted by Niners816:

1985 Bill Walsh Formations















Take note that there was some actual shotgun plays in the playbook. However, I'm not sure if they were ever used in game.

Had to borrow from myself from like 4 years ago....but here are the formations listed in the 1985 Walsh playbook. And Yes it includes shotguns. I have actually seen the niners use he gun under Walsh. I have a gif somewhere from the 1981 game vs Chicago that features a gun play.