49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

So now that qb hits have gone down and you've pivoted to PBWR as the true barometer of OL play, can you elaborate as to why you say MM is has played poorly when PBWR has him the #1 Rated OT?

They haven't gone down...only when we were rushing for 200 yards initially and passing the fewest in the league. They've gone right back up to a high rate when we've had to pass exclusively. Now, that correlation is to be expected but the amount is back up on par with the 2017 and 2018 numbers, hence, despite a low overall volume of snaps initially, the quality = 25th. I noticed that too. That was jaw dropping and has to be a mistake. MM has been horrendous in PP when he has been on the field. If not, someone needs to look into that PBWR operational definition.

The qb hits have gone down...stop making excuses. and PBWR is what you clearly said was the barometer , so MM is the highest rated OT...in the same vein as the 49er middling OL.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

So now that qb hits have gone down and you've pivoted to PBWR as the true barometer of OL play, can you elaborate as to why you say MM is has played poorly when PBWR has him the #1 Rated OT?

They haven't gone down...only when we were rushing for 200 yards initially and passing the fewest in the league. They've gone right back up to a high rate when we've had to pass exclusively. Now, that correlation is to be expected but the amount is back up on par with the 2017 and 2018 numbers, hence, despite a low overall volume of snaps initially, the quality = 25th. I noticed that too. That was jaw dropping and has to be a mistake. MM has been horrendous in PP when he has been on the field. If not, someone needs to look into that PBWR operational definition.

The qb hits have gone down...stop making excuses. and PBWR is what you clearly said was the barometer , so MM is the highest rated OT...in the same vein as the 49er middling OL.

Hoov, if that's true the we need to seriously rethink rankings for PBWR. Honestly bud, not just spin, check out the coaches film thread. It's clear MM still isn't 100% and it shows. Even in the series I posted above, he's been getting beat to the punch since he came back... I hope he's going to better this game.

It'll all even out by the end of the season. We didn't have a 6 game run game streak like this in 2017 and 2018. Now that teams are hellbent on stopping the run, the hits, pressures and sacks will rise. And yeah, MM has played like royal ass. I'm not sure WTH Hoov is arguing here. 5 seconds over in the film room shows that. In fact, the entire OL is pass protecting horribly right now.

Hoping that the oline steps up & has a big physical night tonight in all phases of the game. Take the fight to the Packers, don't wait for it to come to us!

Originally posted by tohara3:

Hoping that the oline steps up & has a big physical night tonight in all phases of the game. Take the fight to the Packers, don't wait for it to come to us!

Me too. At minimum, get their groove back on the OZ. That alone would be a huge help.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

So now that qb hits have gone down and you've pivoted to PBWR as the true barometer of OL play, can you elaborate as to why you say MM is has played poorly when PBWR has him the #1 Rated OT?

They haven't gone down...only when we were rushing for 200 yards initially and passing the fewest in the league. They've gone right back up to a high rate when we've had to pass exclusively. Now, that correlation is to be expected but the amount is back up on par with the 2017 and 2018 numbers, hence, despite a low overall volume of snaps initially, the quality = 25th. I noticed that too. That was jaw dropping and has to be a mistake. MM has been horrendous in PP when he has been on the field. If not, someone needs to look into that PBWR operational definition.

The qb hits have gone down...stop making excuses. and PBWR is what you clearly said was the barometer , so MM is the highest rated OT...in the same vein as the 49er middling OL.

Hoov, if that's true the we need to seriously rethink rankings for PBWR. Honestly bud, not just spin, check out the coaches film thread. It's clear MM still isn't 100% and it shows. Even in the series I posted above, he's been getting beat to the punch since he came back... I hope he's going to better this game.

It'll all even out by the end of the season. We didn't have a 6 game run game streak like this in 2017 and 2018. Now that teams are hellbent on stopping the run, the hits, pressures and sacks will rise. And yeah, MM has played like royal ass. I'm not sure WTH Hoov is arguing here. 5 seconds over in the film room shows that. In fact, the entire OL is pass protecting horribly right now.

I'm not arguing I'm asking you a question . You are now pointing to PBWR as the barometer for good/bad OL play now that qb hits have gone down, since it says the Niners OL is not very good. In the same breath you said MM has played very poorly, yet PBWR, the same PBWR you just referenced, has MM as the #1 OT. So is it a good barometer for OL play?

The Packers might arguably have the talent edge here (pass rush/secondary vs 49ers OTs/WRs).

Love Deebo but man, this could have helped a ton.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I'm not arguing I'm asking you a question . You are now pointing to PBWR as the barometer for good/bad OL play now that qb hits have gone down, since it says the Niners OL is not very good. In the same breath you said MM has played very poorly, yet PBWR, the same PBWR you just referenced, has MM as the #1 OT. So is it a good barometer for OL play?

I thought I did.

I noticed that too (on MM being #1). That was jaw dropping and has to be a mistake. MM has been horrendous in PP when he has been on the field. If not, someone needs to look into that PBWR operational definition.

I was asking the same question unless that was a typo. PBWR is typically a solid look at the quality of pass blocking attempts...and just those. But if their system has MM as #1, throw it in the garbage. It was merely a stat consistent with what I have been seeing on tape over the past 3 games and the Steelers game...games where we were forced to pass predominantly to win with no running game (i.e. their pass protection talent would be on full display). And it hasn't been pretty and consistent with the past 2 years.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Love Deebo but man, this could have helped a ton.

.@baldynfl is here for Broncos-Bills. Talked to him earlier this season about Broncos LG @Dalton_Risner66: "He looks like a pro in there. He'd probably also be their best LT, probably be their best RT, might be their best C. He's their best OL already and he's just a rookie."

— Nicki Jhabvala (@NickiJhabvala) November 24, 2019

I really wanted Risner in the draft too but it's hard to hate on Deebo especially considering how dinged up and nonexistent some of our WRs have been lately.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

I really wanted Risner in the draft too but it's hard to hate on Deebo especially considering how dinged up and nonexistent some of our WRs have been lately.

I love Deebo...still think we could have taken him and traded up for Deebo like we did for Pettis esp. given no run on WR's had started yet. Just a year too soon for the trade up.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I'm not arguing I'm asking you a question . You are now pointing to PBWR as the barometer for good/bad OL play now that qb hits have gone down, since it says the Niners OL is not very good. In the same breath you said MM has played very poorly, yet PBWR, the same PBWR you just referenced, has MM as the #1 OT. So is it a good barometer for OL play?

I thought I did.

I noticed that too (on MM being #1). That was jaw dropping and has to be a mistake. MM has been horrendous in PP when he has been on the field. If not, someone needs to look into that PBWR operational definition.

I was asking the same question unless that was a typo. PBWR is typically a solid look at the quality of pass blocking attempts...and just those. But if their system has MM as #1, throw it in the garbage. It was merely a stat consistent with what I have been seeing on tape over the past 3 games and the Steelers game...games where we were forced to pass predominantly to win with no running game (i.e. their pass protection talent would be on full display). And it hasn't been pretty and consistent with the past 2 years.

Exactly. So I don't think we should be looking at PBWR, as it is incredibly flawed. PP hasn't been great the last few games, but overall has improved this year.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Hoov, if that's true the we need to seriously rethink rankings for PBWR. Honestly bud, not just spin, check out the coaches film thread. It's clear MM still isn't 100% and it shows. Even in the series I posted above, he's been getting beat to the punch since he came back... I hope he's going to better this game.

It was def odd to see MM there #1 lol

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Exactly. So I don't think we should be looking at PBWR, as it is incredibly flawed. PP hasn't been great the last few games, but overall has improved this year.

I'd have no issues throwing it in the trash if that is indeed not a typo. For sure.

Personally, I don't think it's improved at all...was just hidden behind 200 yards running, Kyle scheming help, JG with the fastest TTT...lots of smoke and mirrors. Once the talent had to hold its own and play on an island in pass protection to allow Kyle to open up the pass game, they've looked identical to last year to me. It ain't pretty. And now they can't run either so it looks even worse.

Hopefully, they can at least get back to dominating in the run game tonight!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Exactly. So I don't think we should be looking at PBWR, as it is incredibly flawed. PP hasn't been great the last few games, but overall has improved this year.

I'd have no issues throwing it in the trash if that is indeed not a typo. For sure.

Personally, I don't think it's improved at all...was just hidden behind 200 yards running, Kyle scheming help, JG with the fastest TTT...lots of smoke and mirrors. Once the talent had to hold its own and play on an island in pass protection to allow Kyle to open up the pass game, they've looked identical to last year to me. It ain't pretty. And now they can't run either so it looks even worse.

Hopefully, they can at least get back to dominating in the run game tonight!

Of course you don't lol. Love seeing those low QB hit #s this year. Like you said all offseason, that is the true, tangible stat to look at

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Of course you don't lol. Love seeing those low QB hit #s this year. Like you said all offseason, that is the true, tangible stat to look at

Oh definitely! Don't get me wrong, the OL PP is moot if you're running 200 yards a game and passing the least in the NFL. We were running nearly 60% of the time. Last 2 years, throwing 60%

I've always been most concerned with PP because of this. Now we're getting back to that 60/40 passing/running (more actually) so now the talent must stand on it's own.

That's why it's bad right now and why they don't look like the first 6 weeks. This is NOT a good pass protection OL. That's not their strength.