49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by roman49ers:
Dude we just blew out a top nfc team on prime time and your still criticizing the offensive line? Cmon now

So W = ignore weaknesses. Got it!

I'm more so thinking about this longterm. I was hoping we could bypass taking a tackle early, but I let that go a few weeks ago. I'm convinced now beyond that shadow of a doubt, which puts us in an interesting situation. Should Staley return to form, we'd have 5 tackles on the roster that I assume are good enough to start for at least one game (Staley, McGlinchey, Brunskill, Skule, and Coleman). It's going to be interesting to see what moves are paid at OL because I'd like to see us improve PP. With that and another (or new) deep threat, we can add that element back to our offense. There has to be at least one tackle and a guard added to this team. I honestly prefer two guards, but we'll see. We need to develop more Olineman and we need them on cheap contracts.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

once they got the play-action rolling that PP improved. It will be interesting to see what Kyle does in the off season in regards to personnel.

Gotta realize they do have all their starters signed thru 2020 and at a cheap price overall (whether we like them or not).

They might not be able to resign Ward and we'd have a massive hole at FS. That takes precedence IMO. Will we be able to resign AA and what's up with Blair? AA IMO is a must resign or tag. He's just been too damn good. Buck/Kittle resign without question.

A lot of what ifs that's for sure

Definitely. It'll be interesting to see where the priorities lie now. Good point about defense...Ward, Jones, AA, Moore, Blair, etc. have a legit chance to resign with us. We didn't invest all that to let them go.

Phoenix and LifelongNiner have both recently brought up the missing element to the next phase of this offense. A true deep threat and deep passing game. To have that, you need stellar PP and a reliable burner and lots of practice on it.

That certainly points to OL and WR being the top priorities. This WILL be the first chance ShanaLynch can invest in the OL if they want...they don't seem to be shy about admitting mistakes either so WR at the back end of the draft could be a real possibility. Maybe a top TE.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
once they got the play-action rolling that PP improved. It will be interesting to see what Kyle does in the off season in regards to personnel.

Gotta realize they do have all their starters signed thru 2020 and at a cheap price overall (whether we like them or not).

They might not be able to resign Ward and we'd have a massive hole at FS. That takes precedence IMO. Will we be able to resign AA and what's up with Blair? AA IMO is a must resign or tag. He's just been too damn good. Buck/Kittle resign without question.

A lot of what ifs that's for sure

Definitely. It'll be interesting to see where the priorities lie now. Good point about defense...Ward, Jones, AA, Moore, Blair, etc. have a legit chance to resign with us. We didn't invest all that to let them go.

Phoenix and LifelongNiner have both recently brought up the missing element to the next phase of this offense. A true deep threat and deep passing game. To have that, you need stellar PP and a reliable burner and lots of practice on it.

That certainly points to OL and WR being the top priorities. This WILL be the first chance ShanaLynch can invest in the OL if they want...they don't seem to be shy about admitting mistakes either so WR at the back end of the draft could be a real possibility. Maybe a top TE.

Looking at the roster, I'm also thinking what positions have the best chance of making the team. I'd pass on TE and let Dwelley have another year to develop. I think we have 5 picks. One tackle, one guard, one receiver, one safety, and maybe another edge/LB type. We could (and probably will) move back into the 2nd to pick up more picks. Unless an elite talent falls, I'm not that gung ho on having the 5th year option for a 1st round pick. Right now, talent on cheap contracts is more valuable than that 5th year. I'd like two guards honestly and another corner, which makes 7 picks. Hopefully we can move down as well as trade some guys. A couple extra day 3 picks would be golden. `

Originally posted by NinerGM:
NY I'm okay with that. We've seen day 3 and day 2 tackles play well so can we get improvement with guard? Yes! I don't care who, just something better that who we have.

It just says to me just how talented Jimmy, Deebo, Richburg, Kittle and this defense is. We're winning despite Tomlinson's play.

Yeah all I'm saying for the people screaming for OL upgrades...do some homework on day three lineman that fit the bill That IMO will be the most likely spot Kyle goes for lineman.

Tomlinson is up and down, he's actually have a couple very good weeks this yr. I wonder if he's banged up a little because he was playing pretty well earlier in the season...I also think once Joe comes back (no rust) he will help that left side overall.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Definitely. It'll be interesting to see where the priorities lie now. Good point about defense...Ward, Jones, AA, Moore, Blair, etc. have a legit chance to resign with us. We didn't invest all that to let them go.

Phoenix and LifelongNiner have both recently brought up the missing element to the next phase of this offense. A true deep threat and deep passing game. To have that, you need stellar PP and a reliable burner and lots of practice on it.

That certainly points to OL and WR being the top priorities. This WILL be the first chance ShanaLynch can invest in the OL if they want...they don't seem to be shy about admitting mistakes either so WR at the back end of the draft could be a real possibility. Maybe a top TE.

I'm all for a deep threat, but we don't really see Jimmy G take those shots down field at all. Had a nice one last night with Kittle juking the s**t out of a guy to get wide open.

We have one of the fastest dudes in the NFL inactive. Regardless if he can catch the damn ball his speed is still there. Hell you got a 50/50 shot he get's a PI throwing it deep most of the time. Jimmy just doesn't take the shot (even when PP is fine).

We will see.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm all for a deep threat, but we don't really see Jimmy G take those shots down field at all. Had a nice one last night with Kittle juking the s**t out of a guy to get wide open.

We have one of the fastest dudes in the NFL inactive. Regardless if he can catch the damn ball his speed is still there. Hell you got a 50/50 shot he get's a PI throwing it deep most of the time. Jimmy just doesn't take the shot (even when PP is fine).

We will see.

No doubt that would be the next phase of his development. In fact, he and Goodwin worked on it a ton in the off season...only to only try it once? Maybe it is a Kyle philosophy. Or he just doesn't feel we have the personnel for it and JG hasn't reached a higher efficiency yet for Kyle to fully trust him. We'll see...I mean, Kyle full on pulled a 180 on us to start this year masterminding the run game so who knows what he's going to do with actual receiving weapons.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Definitely. It'll be interesting to see where the priorities lie now. Good point about defense...Ward, Jones, AA, Moore, Blair, etc. have a legit chance to resign with us. We didn't invest all that to let them go.

Phoenix and LifelongNiner have both recently brought up the missing element to the next phase of this offense. A true deep threat and deep passing game. To have that, you need stellar PP and a reliable burner and lots of practice on it.

That certainly points to OL and WR being the top priorities. This WILL be the first chance ShanaLynch can invest in the OL if they want...they don't seem to be shy about admitting mistakes either so WR at the back end of the draft could be a real possibility. Maybe a top TE.

I'm all for a deep threat, but we don't really see Jimmy G take those shots down field at all. Had a nice one last night with Kittle juking the s**t out of a guy to get wide open.

We have one of the fastest dudes in the NFL inactive. Regardless if he can catch the damn ball his speed is still there. Hell you got a 50/50 shot he get's a PI throwing it deep most of the time. Jimmy just doesn't take the shot (even when PP is fine).

We will see.

I'd prefer a YAC guy over a speed guy but I do understand schematically why deep speed is important.

I think Samuel, Kittle, Sanders, and Coleman check those boxes.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Ya feel me now, Hoov?

Nope

LOL. Shocker. Obviously you're not here to have real discussions. Now I know.

Just because you are digging in, per usual, I need to now agree with you? It's clearly very important to you to be thought of as this football savant around here , so who am I to stand in your way I know it's also very important for you to have the last word so have at it lol.

Man is it awesome that we have Brunskill, among many others, locked up for cheap as an ERFA. Plus, plenty of RFAs we can tender low and match if they get offers.

Originally posted by NCommand:

No doubt that would be the next phase of his development. In fact, he and Goodwin worked on it a ton in the off season...only to only try it once? Maybe it is a Kyle philosophy. Or he just doesn't feel we have the personnel for it and JG hasn't reached a higher efficiency yet for Kyle to fully trust him. We'll see...I mean, Kyle full on pulled a 180 on us to start this year masterminding the run game so who knows what he's going to do with actual receiving weapons.

The issue IMO is Goodwin. He's not getting open, when the ball is thrown to him, he isn't catching it. Defenses are simply ignoring him. Since breaking out in 2017 he has played like a poor man's Ted Ginn. They need a deep threat but Goodwin clearly isn't the answer.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Brunskill might have emerged as the dark horse MVP of the OL.


We need a 49er version of Taylor Gabriel.

I was thinking bigger than that. Find a Brandin Cooks or Desean Jackson level playmaker that defenses will specifically have to gameplan against while still having to worry about stopping the run game, stopping Kittle and stopping Sanders/Deebo. I think that would be the final piece to this offense.

Excellent coaching move replacing Schule [sp] w/Brunskill!

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Excellent coaching move replacing Schule [sp] w/Brunskill!

#OLLivesMatter

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Brunskill might have emerged as the dark horse MVP of the OL.

We need a 49er version of Taylor Gabriel.

I was thinking bigger than that. Find a Brandin Cooks or Desean Jackson level playmaker that defenses will specifically have to gameplan against while still having to worry about stopping the run game, stopping Kittle and stopping Sanders/Deebo. I think that would be the final piece to this offense.

That would be scary.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Once Skule got yanked the Packers pass rush became a lot less ferocious. The Smiths have been wrecking OL's all over the league so its not like they were going up against scrubs.

This will definitely calm down some of the "Skule is the LT of the future" talk. He very well could be but it is way too early to say so definitively.

True, but Phoenix, dear lord, something has to be done with Tomlinson. I mean seriously. The sack that looks like Brunskill allowed, was actually Tomlinson's fault. Tomlinson gives up pressure so quickly in the B gap - it's like DL knows this and they don't even bother engaging him directly, they just try to push themselves right by him. I'm not sure what Benson sees in Tomlinson but we *have* to kind of consider and upgrade next off-season. Earlier he looked like he was having a good season, but always this guys shows up and not positively. Last week it was whiff blocking. This week he's just not where he needs to be in pass protection. I think he's okay with traps and other plays, but that's about it.

Kenny Clark and Za'Darious Smith are making a habit of abusing interior OL this season. They did it early tonight.

dj, but this is every week, regardless of opponent. Last week it was the same and we have the film to prove it. I get it, we're going to play some good D, but even against poor D, Tomlinson always gets my attention for the wrong reasons. Can't wait to look at film this week.

I'm not suggesting everything is lovely with the guard slots. I was only pointing out that those two guys are both in the top 10 pass rushers for their position, and it is the interior guys they attack.

Both Tomlinson and Person can be improved upon. FWIW, Tomlinson actually grades out high average in PP. (72 PP v 60 run blocking) Person is much weaker in PP than run (60 v 65) Both have been somewhat inconsistent. Part of that can be laid off to having to get used to different OTs playing beside them.

Clearly there needs to be improvement all along the line. Brunskill is our best OL, and he proved it again last night. Once he replaced Skule, even Collinsworth noted the change. If Staley comes back next year and plays well, and McGlinchey returns to form, then Brunskill replaces Person and Lynch looks to replace Tomlinson in the draft.

Games are won in the trenches. We proved that again last night. We need an OL that can stand up against guys like ZSmith if we want to have an offense that wins Super Bowls. Yes, a deep threat WR is important but until the OL can PP for 3+ seconds, that guy is not going to see the ball very much. I think we saw evidence of that last night with Goodwin being inactive. No sense having him running deep as long as Kyle knew Jimmy would not have time to throw it deep.