49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I've been up in Seattle for a month now. I'm stuck watching them. Wilson has been getting killed and killed inside the pocket. In fact, he's usually very smart outside the pocket either throwing away or striking with success (legs or passes) and he takes less hits that way.

His unit pass protection has absolutely been failing him and I've got an army of 2012's to verify that. LOL

And it'll cost them in the playoffs like every year.

His OL has NEVER been good, he's constantly being hit...that's really not shocking at all. He HAS also held onto the ball longer than just about any QB over his career in the NFL. He has too because his offense outside of his is trash. Dude is constantly asked to pull s**t out of his ass. Explain AZ being #1 then? You don't think that OL is actually good do you?

Go watch Hurts vs NO last sunday...there OL is worse, not one single sack vs that defense. QB play helps and there's not a damn thing you can say otherwise that will change my mind on this topic.

I don't understand what you honestly think I'm saying, this isn't QB vs OL. I know the OL isn't a top 10 unit it would be foolish to say that. I'm saying better QB play can help a OL. That should be common knowledge. I'm saying I would prefer to move off Jimmy get that cash invest back into the team (yes into the OL) and roll with a rookie QB who Kyle can mold is offense around.

I think some are just challenging you on what's the right move. I don't think anyone has the early answer, just exploring everything because this is a HUGE decision.

Is it fair to assess Jimmy Garoppolo if he's never had really good and consistent pass protection or weapons esp. after investing so much time into teaching him the offense?

I'm torn on investing a lot in both avenues: 1) Rookie QB's are dangerous and can we get our guy AFTER we dump JG? and 2) What's going to be available in FA/Draft to really beef up the OL?

It's scary. We could conceivably be in position to not beef up either.

And does Kyle even WANT to improve the PP? That right there might be the biggest issue to all of the dominos.

Originally posted by NCommand:
They both can't be true if you don't admit it. You're only NOW admitting one side here like every year coming in. If I see you put the same conviction into beefing up the unit pass protection like I do with a new rookie QB, there'd be zero debate here.

But you're perfectly fine with the OL every year...maybe add a "day three pick."

What in the actual f**k are you talking about? I've said numerous times I don't think this OL is elite at all. I've said if Richburg is toast, we need to upgrade center. I've said I'm all for investing draft picks into the IOL. WHAT I've debated with you for over a yr now is that throwing a top end 1st rd pick on a guard is dumb as s**t. Unless it's some generational talent like Nelson. The draft last yr overall was BAD at IOL. I said that over and over and you wouldn't have it lol.

I already showed you a list of guys that I had in my mocks that were NOT just day 3 picks AND most there were are pretty f**king good right now!

This is there are some very good QB prospects and it looks like we should be in play to get one. You don't pass up that opportunity to get a IOL or hope Jimmy becomes something he hasn't been thus far. Free up that cash and build up the roster for a young QB that Kyle and Co. can truly build around.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

We durability like this!

Frank Ragnow hasn't missed a snap all season. That includes on Sunday, when he reportedly fractured his throat against Green Bay. Oh, and he never allowed a single pressure all day. Story:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

They both can't be true if you don't admit it. You're only NOW admitting one side here like every year coming in. If I see you put the same conviction into beefing up the unit pass protection like I do with a new rookie QB, there'd be zero debate here.

But you're perfectly fine with the OL every year...maybe add a "day three pick."

What in the actual f**k are you talking about? I've said numerous times I don't think this OL is elite at all. I've said if Richburg is toast, we need to upgrade center. I've said I'm all for investing draft picks into the IOL. WHAT I've debated with you for over a yr now is that throwing a top end 1st rd pick on a guard is dumb as s**t. Unless it's some generational talent like Nelson. The draft last yr overall was BAD at IOL. I said that over and over and you wouldn't have it lol.

I already showed you a list of guys that I had in my mocks that were NOT just day 3 picks AND most there were are pretty f**king good right now!

This is there are some very good QB prospects and it looks like we should be in play to get one. You don't pass up that opportunity to get a IOL or hope Jimmy becomes something he hasn't been thus far. Free up that cash and build up the roster for a young QB that Kyle and Co. can truly build around.

Haha. When you said it's good enough to win a Superbowl, that's exactly what you're saying. I'm not saying you haven't wanted to add more OL help, literally, every year. I've been with you on that. But you're perfectly fine with what we end up doing either way, even with get-by guys. It's just not of value to you. The standards aren't high and they certainly at the standards you now hold a QB too (to make up for that OL).

I've seen more conviction in one of your move-Garoppolo or rookie-QB posts than I've seen in 4 years combined on the OL topic. LOL

If you care about the (new) QB, you'll care about the OL with that same conviction.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
First, it was elbow surgery, not shoulder, in August Ben said his elbow felt, "really, really good" and was throwing a lot. His injury has happened to a number of baseball players and they typically fully recover.

Second, where did I compare Jimmy and Ben's abilities to throw deep? Missed that one where I said that.
What I said was, is Pitt not throwing deep because they don't trust Ben?
If you say they don't, then that defeats your argument about their O-line.

Which is it? Is NC right that Pitt's O-line is really good and Pitt doesn't trust Ben to throw deep or is it that Pitt's o-line is bad and their OC doesn't trust the O-line to throw deep?

THAT is my argument.

Also, I didn't mention ALL PA attempts. Read it again, I said play action UNDER CENTER which take longer to develop. Surely you know that there's a difference in time to make an Read option style run fake or run fake out of shutgun vs under center when the QB fakes an extended handoff, right?

Yes his "new" injury was his elbow ...he stated he dealt with shoulder issues for yrs and the yr off helped him recover as well. Dude's knees are shot as well.

You're the one that brought up Big Ben and if they don't want him to throw it deep, not me. I'm saying it's a bunch of things one being the OL and 2 he's not the same QB he was in the past. He's 38.

I'm saying throwing out a weekly QB hits stat is rubbish because it LACKS soooo much context that goes into every freaking NFL team on that list. Yes I understand the difference and you're reaching a little bit there. Does Josh Allen run a crap ton of under center PA? He's got the second highest TTT. Jackson is 3rd, wilson 4th, Ryan/Wentz/Lock tied for 5th. Don't act like we didn't run RPO out of shotgun either. We did.

The offense like you stated is a horizontal offense. He get's the ball out of his hand quickly...it's not a knock on anyone. When asked to push the ball downfield OVERALL he wasn't amazing at this. You disagree cool. I'm not gonna get into another Jimmy debate go argue with someone else about that. I've said my peace about him.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

We durability like this!

Frank Ragnow hasn't missed a snap all season. That includes on Sunday, when he reportedly fractured his throat against Green Bay. Oh, and he never allowed a single pressure all day. Story:

Center for the Lions. If they take Saleh, he must give us Ragnow!

Deal. I had him in one of my mocks too. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. When you said it's good enough to win a Superbowl, that's exactly what you're saying. I'm not saying you haven't wanted to add more OL help, literally, every year. I've been with you on that. But you're likely fine with what we end up doing either way, even with get-by guys. It's just not of value to you.

I've seen more conviction in one of your move-Garoppolo or rookie-QB posts than I've seen in 4 years combined on the OL topic. LOL

If you care about the QB, you'll care about the OL with that same conviction.

It almost was! The fact that you keep bringing that up doesn't help your case lol.

I was fine with TW, Tomlinson, Richburg, Brunskill/rookie, McG after the draft...With Jimmy more weapons and at the time a HEALTHY team. Hell yeah.

My issue with you has ALWAYS been about the value of guard. You want to spend first rd picks and invest $70M in guys like Norwell (one of the worst contracts in football). I have stated you can find good IOL later in the draft and my mocks have proven that. I got no problem with having good tackles and a good center. That's what our HC values as well.

End of the day none of that s**t matters if we don't have a good QB. I think Jimmy is a fine QB BUT he's also getting paid to be a great and IMO he's not. NOW we're at a spot were we can get a talented young QB on a cheap deal...which matters in a cap strapped team.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm saying throwing out a weekly QB hits stat is rubbish...

Is it? For a guy who's so black and white, it's pretty black and white.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
They both can't be true if you don't admit it. You're only NOW admitting one side here like every year coming in. If I see you put the same conviction into beefing up the unit pass protection like I do with a new rookie QB, there'd be zero debate here.

But you're perfectly fine with the OL every year...maybe add a "day three pick."

What in the actual f**k are you talking about? I've said numerous times I don't think this OL is elite at all. I've said if Richburg is toast, we need to upgrade center. I've said I'm all for investing draft picks into the IOL. WHAT I've debated with you for over a yr now is that throwing a top end 1st rd pick on a guard is dumb as s**t. Unless it's some generational talent like Nelson. The draft last yr overall was BAD at IOL. I said that over and over and you wouldn't have it lol.

I already showed you a list of guys that I had in my mocks that were NOT just day 3 picks AND most there were are pretty f**king good right now!

This is there are some very good QB prospects and it looks like we should be in play to get one. You don't pass up that opportunity to get a IOL or hope Jimmy becomes something he hasn't been thus far. Free up that cash and build up the roster for a young QB that Kyle and Co. can truly build around.

Haha. When you said it's good enough to win a Superbowl, that's exactly what you're saying. I'm not saying you haven't wanted to add more OL help, literally, every year. I've been with you on that. But you're perfectly fine with what we end up doing either way, even with get-by guys. It's just not of value to you. The standards aren't high and they certainly at the standards you now hold a QB too (to make up for that OL).

I've seen more conviction in one of your move-Garoppolo or rookie-QB posts than I've seen in 4 years combined on the OL topic. LOL

If you care about the (new) QB, you'll care about the OL with that same conviction.

Our Oline was more responsible for the SB loss then JG. Person was dismal and the line allowed too many batted down balls and missed blocks in the last quarter. Still it was not fixed this year. Pass protection looks doesn't go higher then turnstiles that hold back the DLs and LBs for .05 of a second. Perhaps NYniner85 is saying we should just invest in better QB doctors instead of competent OL pass protectors?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
We durability like this!

Frank Ragnow hasn't missed a snap all season. That includes on Sunday, when he reportedly fractured his throat against Green Bay. Oh, and he never allowed a single pressure all day. Story:

Center for the Lions. If they take Saleh, he must give us Ragnow!

Deal. I had him in one of my mocks too. LOL

was that before or after Bradbury lol

He's one of the few 1st rd picks at center that has played to his draft position. He will be getting a big fat paycheck in a yr.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
We durability like this!

Frank Ragnow hasn't missed a snap all season. That includes on Sunday, when he reportedly fractured his throat against Green Bay. Oh, and he never allowed a single pressure all day. Story:

Center for the Lions. If they take Saleh, he must give us Ragnow!

Sounds fair

Originally posted by Goatie:
Our Oline was more responsible for the SB loss then JG.

totally disagree. I'm not getting into a debate with you about Jimmy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Goatie:
Our Oline was more responsible for the SB loss then JG.

totally disagree. I'm not getting into a debate with you about Jimmy.

Chicken

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Haha. When you said it's good enough to win a Superbowl, that's exactly what you're saying. I'm not saying you haven't wanted to add more OL help, literally, every year. I've been with you on that. But you're likely fine with what we end up doing either way, even with get-by guys. It's just not of value to you.

I've seen more conviction in one of your move-Garoppolo or rookie-QB posts than I've seen in 4 years combined on the OL topic. LOL

If you care about the QB, you'll care about the OL with that same conviction.

It almost was! The fact that you keep bringing that up doesn't help your case lol.

I was fine with TW, Tomlinson, Richburg, Brunskill/rookie, McG after the draft...With Jimmy more weapons and at the time a HEALTHY team. Hell yeah.

My issue with you has ALWAYS been about the value of guard. You want to spend first rd picks and invest $70M in guys like Norwell (one of the worst contracts in football). I have stated you can find good IOL later in the draft and my mocks have proven that. I got no problem with having good tackles and a good center. That's what our HC values as well.

End of the day none of that s**t matters if we don't have a good QB. I think Jimmy is a fine QB BUT he's also getting paid to be a great and IMO he's not. NOW we're at a spot were we can get a talented young QB on a cheap deal...which matters in a cap strapped team.

On a funny aside, had we had Andrew Norwell (69.8 grade instead of Tomlinson) and Ryan Jensen, we win a Superbowl. You don't value G's and it was G's that cost us the Superbowl. And poor C play too. No QB can throw through a DL's free arms.

I get your stance on QB. We're just saying good luck with those expectations if everything else is the same.

Side note: I already admitted Norwell was the wrong move several times.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Maybe I'm misreading "offensive line is blocking well enough to be a Top-10 unit...?"

How are you reading that bud?

Where in that quote is he saying they are a top 10 OL this year?

The stat he's throwing out is from this year. It's about our OL this year. That's the tweet.

And nowhere does he say they are a top 10 OL this year: that's my only point.