49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Oline coach gotta take some of the blame right?

5th string center, 4th string RG, a bunch of turds playing QB, top 2 receivers gone most of the yr etc...there was plenty you can point to for issues regarding PP.

Originally posted by NCommand:
You are aware Kyle's QB's have some of the fastest TTT metrics out there annually.

These aren't "running QB's" at the high end of the TTT living on off script plays.

Rogers TTT under this offense is 2.72 vs Jimmy last yr at 2.65 not very much difference in TTT. He is mobile enough and has been hit the least amount in the league. That OL has one lineman drafted in the top 100. Without question he makes everything better.

I would call Tannehill mobile and has a TTT of 2.69, they run a lot of the same concepts in the passing game. Their only high quality lineman is a guard (Safford). They're right in the middle as far as QB hits go. s**t even Mitch (who we can call mobile) is playing good ball right now. His TTT is 2.66 and they also run a ton of the same concepts. I would bet money Foles got hit more than him this yr. That is NOT a good OL overall.

Look we all think the OL should improve, not one person in here is debating that

SF had no continuity this yr. We had a 5th string center & 4th string RG. McG did NOT play well in pass-pro. We had 3 different QBs. Receivers in and out all yr. RBs in and out all yr etc.

A QB that is worth a damn will make everything on offense better. period. That doesn't mean it's one or the other though.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Remember when Mike McGlinchey continued to get 83.0 overall grades even with 30-grades in pass protection?

Stick to Brandon Thorn's grades.

The 9 teams that allowed the least amount of sacks this season all made the playoffs. Sooo important to limit sacks, and it requires OL, QB and schematic answers to pressure all working together.

— Jon Ledyard (@LedyardNFLDraft) January 6, 2021

Create a custom 49ers jersey ⇨
Hits matter.

Stick to Thorn's grades? Okay I'll remember this comment

Yep. Common fans blame the OL automatically when they see pressure. The new wave blames QBs. Nobody talks about the scheme. All are wrong lol. Sacks are a team stat

— Jon Ledyard (@LedyardNFLDraft) January 6, 2021

100%.

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) January 6, 2021

Some also posted how teams in the playoffs also had better QB play & are more balanced. Not forced into a ton of behind the chains passing situations, where DL can just pin their ears back...he agreed.

Did you see his mid season grades? I posted them for you.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'm still trying to understand how PFF in week 16 can note we had 70 QB Hits (double digit higher than the next closest) still rank an OL unit as #9. This is the exact same concept as Mike McGlinchey's weight grade.

In a passing league, they seem to have a wildly skewed grading system towards run blocking.

And this.

Total QB Hits Allowed In 2020:

GB: 50
ARI: 53
CLE, IND: 58
LV: 60
BAL: 61
PIT: 69
NO: 72
BUF: 77
CAR: 78
LAR: 79
NE: 81
MIA: 82
TEN: 83
KC: 85
JAX, TB: 89
DET: 95
CHI: 99
DAL: 101
DEN: 103
HOU: 104
NYJ: 107
LAC: 110
ATL: 111
WAS: 114
NYG, SEA: 117
CIN, MIN: 121
SF: 122
PHI: 150

— Johnny Kinsley (THE BROWNS DID IT) (@Brickwallblitz) January 4, 2021

Un. Real.

You guys complain about PFF but then post stuff like this.

HA, exactly! Hollow ass stat BUT helps push a narrative...we already went through it last yr when they weren't bottom of the league in QB hits even though the hate for the OL was just as strong. There were excuses for not being bottom of the list, apparently that doesn't apply this yr

It's a useless stat end of the day, we can all agree they need to upgrade the OL.

A hollow stat that, like injuries and turnovers, is correlated to winning and playoff teams as noted by sacks and both PFF and Kinsley's hit record in this very thread.

Are you seriously trying to say there isn't a correlation?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Rogers TTT under this offense is 2.72 vs Jimmy last yr at 2.65 not very much difference in TTT. He is mobile enough and has been hit the least amount in the league. That OL has one lineman drafted in the top 100. Without question he makes everything better.

I would call Tannehill mobile and has a TTT of 2.69, they run a lot of the same concepts in the passing game. Their only high quality lineman is a guard (Safford). They're right in the middle as far as QB hits go. s**t even Mitch (who we can call mobile) is playing good ball right now. His TTT is 2.66 and they also run a ton of the same concepts. I would bet money Foles got hit more than him this yr. That is NOT a good OL overall.

Look we all think the OL should improve, not one person in here is debating that

SF had no continuity this yr. We had a 5th string center & 4th string RG. McG did NOT play well in pass-pro. We had 3 different QBs. Receivers in and out all yr. RBs in and out all yr etc.

A QB that is worth a damn will make everything on offense better. period. That doesn't mean it's one or the other though.

Just continuity? Not a talent issue (couldn't run or pass block)? Not a system issue that eats through OL? Just continuity when 4 of the 5 projected starters played most of the year and 3 of the 5 played together in January?

Originally posted by NCommand:
A hollow stat that, like injuries and turnovers, is correlated to winning and playoff teams as noted by sacks and both PFF and Kinsley's hit record in this very thread.

Are you seriously trying to say there isn't a correlation?

I'm saying how you're implying the stat is hollow, yes. This same stat last yr was basically thrown in the trash when SF wasn't at the bottom of the list. Not having a bunch of turds behind center improved that stat, no?

Again...it's groundhogs day with you on this subject.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Just continuity? Not a talent issue (couldn't run or pass block)? Not a system issue that eats through OL? Just continuity when 4 of the 5 projected starters played most of the year and 3 of the 5 played together in January?

Again you're making up stuff with saying a "system" eats up through OL. That's a straight reach. Stop acting like SF is the only team in the NFL that runs any form of OZ. Towards the end of the season when there was more continuity they most certainly were running the ball better.

I also never said just continuity....you call me out for only reading what I want, yet you do the same damn thing lol. You're SO fixated on ONE thing that you refuse to see the bigger picture on how an offense is suppose to run.

LOL yeah Brunskill was suppose to play center, that's news to me. He was the 5th string man. They had what 3 or 4 different guys play RG? Williams is a stud BUT it was his 1st yr here and hadn't played football in over a yr.

Top it all off with turd play at QB all yr and missing a plethora of receivers all yr.

THAT ALL leads to you're QB hit stat...yet you constantly post it in here like it's some end all be all stat about the OL. AGAIN for the 100th time I'm not defending the OL or saying it shouldn't be upgraded. BUT QB play without question improves everything on a offense top to bottom. IF you have a chance to improve that YOU do it! period.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Just continuity? Not a talent issue (couldn't run or pass block)? Not a system issue that eats through OL? Just continuity when 4 of the 5 projected starters played most of the year and 3 of the 5 played together in January?

Again you're making up stuff with saying a "system" eats up through OL. That's a straight reach. Stop acting like SF is the only team in the NFL that runs any form of OZ. Towards the end of the season when there was more continuity they most certainly were running the ball better.

I also never said just continuity....you call me out for only reading what I want, yet you do the same damn thing lol. You're SO fixated on ONE thing that you refuse to see the bigger picture on how an offense is suppose to run.

LOL yeah Brunskill was suppose to play center, that's news to me. He was the 5th string man. They had what 3 or 4 different guys play RG? Williams is a stud BUT it was his 1st yr here and hadn't played football in over a yr.

Top it all off with turd play at QB all yr and missing a plethora of receivers all yr.

THAT ALL leads to you're QB hit stat...yet you constantly post it in here like it's some end all be all stat about the OL. AGAIN for the 100th time I'm not defending the OL or saying it shouldn't be upgraded. BUT QB play without question improves everything on a offense top to bottom. IF you have a chance to improve that YOU do it! period.

Am I? The trend continued again this year, hypothesis or not. Like the PP, no matter how much evidence is presented, from hollow simplistic to advanced metrics all matching one conclusion, at no point can you just admit the talent is and was poor.

You simply pivot to continuity, then run blocking needed to disguise it, then the QB, then the receivers, etc.

No offense, but you sound silly at this stage.

At some point, there HAS to be a point where you admit, talent and depth just wasn't good enough.

Let's just make sure talent isn't the issue next year!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Am I? The trend continued again this year, hypothesis or not. Like the PP, no matter how much evidence is presented, from hollow simplistic to advanced metrics all matching one conclusion, at no point can you just admit the talent is and was poor.

You simply pivot to continuity, then run blocking needed to disguise it, then the QB, then the receivers, etc.

No offense, but you sound silly at this stage.

At some point, there HAS to be a point where you admit, talent and depth just wasn't good enough.


Let's just make sure talent isn't the issue next year!

Dude I've said they need to improve! Holy s**t this is what I'm talking about with you not reading what people write and just assuming...

I didn't pivot on anything...it's one of MANY variables that lead to your silly little QB hit stat....look at last yr, not at the bottom of the list YET not stacked on the OL. OTHER variables lead to them not being bottom of the league in hits. You throughout that stance in here all last yr because you wouldn't accept that it was just better OL play....NOW this yr you won't accept that it's any of those same variables outside of OL play (guess what it can be more than one variable).

Continuity matters, QB plays matters, talent matters, play-calling matters, receivers matter, a run game matters, not being stuck in 2nd/3rd & long all game matters, even defense matters...when it comes to PP.

You say look at who's in the playoffs and who's not with QB hits...no s**t, outside of possibly not having an amazing OL they could simply suck at other things that lead to QB hits. Having to play catch-up all game long, bad receivers/QBs, bad play-calling, no run game etc...everything we've said that leads to good/bad PP outside of just talent.

That's why I have an issue with you in here...you think it's all talent. You might toss a little something else in there so you don't sound completely one sided BUT we all know what you're doing.

That silly stat by itself is a hollow ass stat. There's entirely too much context that goes into that stat end of the day.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Wait this isn't mutually exclusive. Automatically blaming the OL when they see pressure and true SACKS (not hits) are a team stat. And Thorn agreed.

Who says we're automatically blaming the OL?

If I just take McG's film this year - are you really trying to say he's had no blame? Again you keep arguing this mythical absolute approach. No one, no one is saying that a QB isn't responsible for hits or pressure in a vacuum. Also, no one is saying that it's always the OL's fault.

What we are saying is this team - and KS has said this - focuses on players who excel at runblocking. So arguing that PP has been enough to win this year along with an OL that hasn't been as good even at in the area for which they were chosen isn't countered by what you've posted. Why is all/any criticism of the poor play and pass pro issues get the reflexive response that it's the QBs fault? No pocket presence? Are people watching games? I can post 30 clips easy of just McG getting beat immediately and getting pushed backing into a pocket. At center we've had a revolving door between Grasu and Brunskill, back-ups to the back up, both learning new positions and people are like "its fine." I mean come one man, the attrition alone is enough to make the case that the OL would be subpar.

Show me where I said McG isn't part of the PP issue? Again there is SO much that goes into PP outside of JUST the OL. That's what those tweets represent and what I've been stating. Show me where I've said PP was good enough to win this yr? You're arguing with yourself lol. You're debating no one if that's your argument.

If you're playing from behind or forced into 2nd/3rd an longs all the damn time, half the play book is thrown out the window...If you have QB play that's stinks half your play book goes out the window.

Variables man. BOTH things can be true, OL needs to be upgraded AND the QB play is f**king trash, which in turn hurts everything on offense, including PP.

It's not necessarily one or the other.

This team is 6-10 even with the Packers O line. To pretend things would've gone differently when our cast of QB's consistently can't hit open players is absurd. Even CJ couldn't see wide open touchdowns when he had time.

That being said the O line absolutely needs an influx of talent, particularly at Center.

Same as its always been.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

That being said the O line absolutely needs an influx of talent, particularly at Center.

Definitely. I look forward to your off season plan. You too have a good eye for talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Wait this isn't mutually exclusive. Automatically blaming the OL when they see pressure and true SACKS (not hits) are a team stat. And Thorn agreed.

Who says we're automatically blaming the OL?

If I just take McG's film this year - are you really trying to say he's had no blame? Again you keep arguing this mythical absolute approach. No one, no one is saying that a QB isn't responsible for hits or pressure in a vacuum. Also, no one is saying that it's always the OL's fault.

What we are saying is this team - and KS has said this - focuses on players who excel at runblocking. So arguing that PP has been enough to win this year along with an OL that hasn't been as good even at in the area for which they were chosen isn't countered by what you've posted. Why is all/any criticism of the poor play and pass pro issues get the reflexive response that it's the QBs fault? No pocket presence? Are people watching games? I can post 30 clips easy of just McG getting beat immediately and getting pushed backing into a pocket. At center we've had a revolving door between Grasu and Brunskill, back-ups to the back up, both learning new positions and people are like "its fine." I mean come one man, the attrition alone is enough to make the case that the OL would be subpar.

Show me where I said McG isn't part of the PP issue? Again there is SO much that goes into PP outside of JUST the OL. That's what those tweets represent and what I've been stating. Show me where I've said PP was good enough to win this yr? You're arguing with yourself lol. You're debating no one if that's your argument.

If you're playing from behind or forced into 2nd/3rd an longs all the damn time, half the play book is thrown out the window...If you have QB play that's stinks half your play book goes out the window.

Variables man. BOTH things can be true, OL needs to be upgraded AND the QB play is f**king trash, which in turn hurts everything on offense, including PP.

It's not necessarily one or the other.

So why dismiss basic "hollow" stats that say EXACTLY what you just confirmed they say?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Definitely. I look forward to your off season plan. You too have a good eye for talent.

All comes down to QB and what the plan is. I'd personally go after Stafford. What it takes to acquire him and what kind of value you can get for Jimmy G shapes what you do with the rest..

This is the year to attack guard and center. Good prospects in the mid rounds finally.

Convince Alex Mack to give it one more year at the minimum.